The Chemtrail Hoax

Your first post had a lot of issues. When you were called out on those issues you went into attack mode then into ignore mode.

You have yet to addres the flaws ni your arguments that were pointed out.

Personally I dont think I made any real comments until my drunk post.. by which time you, Code 3, had spent several clips of childish comeback ammo. Actually, I dont think Ive really made any direct references... Ive just stated the facts that I have been presented with (bring on the quotes, I dare yah ).

I am sorry if you are so insecure that you interpret everything that is said as an attack, but it is not my, nor anyone elses problem.

It's just that... well... when I see someone that clearly has no clue about anything they are trying to argue, it becomes all too easy to manipulate that poor fool into a truely entertaining 8 pages or so. This whole internet thing is amazing!

So, how many times have you said "Im never replying again WAAAAAA"?

And how many posts have you made after those?

And how often were they in response to someone clearly pointing out how incorrect and malformed your statements are?

If you are SO proud of who you are and what you say, why must you defend your points? If they are so infallible and incontrovertible, why do you feel you must respond when people tear your ideas apart? Is it because you know deep down inside that it is all complete nonsense pulled from your backside? You can't even keep your stories straight half the time, switching details around so they more easily fit into your "facts."

Not once have you actually made a direct response aimed at my rebuttals to your claims. Not once have you put forth any evidence to support your claims. And not once have you added anything to the "chemtrail debate" besides wild speculation and radical opinion.

I am not going to answer your posts anymore

Will THAT ONE be it? Or will you end yet another dozen posts with that line?

Let's do an experiment. Everyone go to the grocery store and pick out a package of something that isn't "all natural". Now take off the ingredient list before you read it and throw it away. Take a sample of the food item and render a list of the chemicals contained within it.

Next step is a bit trickier. Go obtain samples from jets in flight. We need a good size sampling. Do passenger airlines, military jets, even a crop duster just to throw some extra data in. With the samples, implement the same methodology used on the food item sample in the paragraph above.

Once everyone is done report back here and we can prove once and for all if chemtrails are a hoax or not.

I'm down.
Just bring me the investors...
And a plane, please. With a couch.

> And a gas chromatograph too... Money, plane, GC... and poptarts. Gotta have the poptarts.



[edit on 21-4-2005 by apc]

Let's see if we can borrow one of these planes for collecting samples. All the sample aparatus is already built in

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Let's see if we can borrow one of these planes for collecting samples. All the sample aparatus is already built in

Too bad we seriously can't get access to stuff like that, and have it fly through dozens of persistant contrails and collect samples. I think that would be the only way to settle this whole debate.

What would be really nice is to have something like that on call 24/7 and let those who believe in "chemtrails" to pick which ones to analyze and all that, but sadly that won't ever happen i'd think. This "chemtrail" thing and the moon landing hoax just need to be settled already... nothing new has been brought to the table on this subject for a long time.

[edit on 22-4-2005 by jra]

well howard's new planes are news to me. interesting that nasa has decided to spend so much money and effort on testing when they could have just asked howard and offthestreet everything they need to know.
there are no mysteries to these two guys. they know it all.

seriously, though, it is interesting to me that nasa has these special planes for testing contrails and/or the chemical makeup of the upper atmosphere. if it was 'just water', they wouldn't need to test it.

Without thoroughly understanding the specifics of cloud dynamics, it's difficult to isolate how human activities interfere with or add to cloud processes, he says. And because cirrus clouds, particularly in the tropics, develop near the stratosphere, detailed studies have been difficult at best.

...

There is nothing abnormal about NASA having a special plane. It is NASA afterall (National Aeronautical and Space Administration). They do local stuff, too. Not just robot hamsters on Mars.

Originally posted by billybob
well howard's new planes are news to me. interesting that nasa has decided to spend so much money and effort on testing when they could have just asked howard and offthestreet everything they need to know.
there are no mysteries to these two guys. they know it all.

seriously, though, it is interesting to me that nasa has these special planes for testing contrails and/or the chemical makeup of the upper atmosphere. if it was 'just water', they wouldn't need to test it.

Since when has anyone in this thread claimed to know everything about Cirrus clouds? I don't think anything other than the basics has been stated. That they consist of ice particles. If I am wrong then please do correct me.

They are trying to learn more about the dynamics of them and how they effect our climate. They arn't just going up there to see if it's "just water". Might want to read the article a bit more carefully next time eh?

Originally posted by jra
Too bad we seriously can't get access to stuff like that, and have it fly through dozens of persistant contrails and collect samples. I think that would be the only way to settle this whole debate.

SUCCESS project

For those bored by HR's and OTS's smug know-it-all know nothing posts
And wish to protect yourselves from spraying effects
This combination remedy counters the barium and mycoplasma components, supports and drains the liver, spleen and kidneys, treats the respiratory and digestive symptoms. Counters symptoms from multiple chemical sensitivities

www.chembuster.us...

This remedy benefits from being charged with orgonite devices or a zapper

If you can't be bothered with metal and resin matrix, you can simply print out a symbol orgone generator here

educate-yourself.org...

Leave your remedy on your printout
I would suggest a single or double terminated quartz crystal on the printout pointing at the remedy bottle too

For those bored by HR's and OTS's smug know-it-all know nothing posts

And for those bored by Duh's lack of knowledge you can educate yourself better by going here (worldzone.net...) or here (goodsky.homestead.com...) and look at some actual facts, which Duh just can't seem to provide. (and never will)

And wish to protect yourselves from spraying effects

Ahhhh, now the truth comes out. Exactly who is making money off of this hoax. Thanks for stating to the general public what the debunkers have know for so long, Duh.

This combination remedy counters the barium and mycoplasma components, supports and drains the liver, spleen and kidneys, treats the respiratory and digestive symptoms. Counters symptoms from multiple chemical sensitivities

It's a floor wax and a desert topping!!

I would suggest a single or double terminated quartz crystal on the printout pointing at the remedy bottle too

Personally I'd use the Number 9 loon mallet on whomever is stupid enough to 1) buy one of these things, 2) think it actually works and 3) really thinks they can get more suckers to buy one.

-Traveler

i would like to keep an open mind about this and just present what i've seen myself. This is supposedly an article published on another site by an unidentified airline mechanic. i do not know if it is reputable or not, but i would just like to get it out here. here it is:


From an airline mechanic

"For reasons you will understand as you read this I can not divulge my identity. I am an aircraft mechanic for a major airline. I work at one of our maintenance bases located at a large airport. I have discovered some information that I think you will find important.

First I should tell you something about the "pecking order" among mechanics. It is important to my story and to the cause to which you have dedicated yourself.

Mechanics want to work on three things. The avionics, the engines, or the flight controls. The mechanics that work on these systems are considered at the top of the "pecking order". Next come the mechanics that work on the hydraulics and air conditioning systems. Then come the ones who work on the galley and other non-essential systems. But at the very bottom of the list are the mechanics that work on the waste disposal systems. No mechanic wants to work on the pumps, tanks, and pipes that are used to store the waste from the lavatories.

But at every airport where I have worked there are always 2 or 3 mechanics that volunteer to work on the lavatory systems. The other mechanics are happy to let them do it. Because of this you will have only 2 or 3 mechanics that work on these systems at any one airport. No one pays much attention to these guys and no mechanic socializes with another mechanic who only works on the waste systems. In fact I had never thought much about this situation until last month.

Like most airlines we have reciprocal agreements with the other airlines that fly into this airport. If they have a problem with a plane one of our mechanics will take care of it. Likewise if one of our planes has a problem at an airport where the other airline has a maintenance base, they will fix our plane.

One day last month I was called out from our base to work on a plane for another airline. When I got the call the dispatcher did not know what the problem was. When I got to the plane I found out that the problem was in waste disposal system.

There was nothing for me to do but to crawl in and fix the problem. When I got into the bay I realized that something was not right. There were more tanks, pumps, and pipes then should have been there. At first I assumed that the system had been changed. It had been 10 years since I had worked on one. As I tried to find the problem I quickly realized the extra piping and tanks were not connected to the waste disposal system. I had just discovered this when another mechanic from my company showed up.

It was one of the mechanics who usually works on these systems. I happily turned the job over to him. As I was leaving I asked him about the extra equipment. He told me to "worry about my end of the plane and let him worry about his!"

The next day I was on the company computer to look up a wiring schematic. While I was there I decided to look up the extra equipment I had found. To my amazement the manuals did not show any of the extra equipment I had seen with my own eyes the day before. I even tied in to the manufacturer files and still found nothing. Now I was really determined to find out what that equipment did.

The next week we had three of our planes in our main hanger for periodic inspection. There are mechanics crawling all over a plane during these inspections. I had just finished my shift and I decided to have a look at the waste system on one of our planes. With all the mechanics around I figured that no one would notice an extra one on the plane. Sure enough, the plane I choose had the extra equipment!
I began to trace the system of pipes, pumps, and tanks. I found what appeared to be the control unit for the system. It was a standard looking avionics control box but it had no markings of any kind. I could trace the control wires from the box to the pumps and valves but there were no control circuits coming into the unit. The only wires coming Into the unit was a power connection to the aircraft's main power bus.

The system had 1 large and 2 smaller tanks. It was hard to tell in the cramped compartment but it looked like the large tank could hold 50 gallons. The tanks were connected to a fill and drain valve that passed through the fuselage just behind the drain valve for the waste system. When I had a chance to look for this connection under the plane I found it cunningly hidden behind a panel under the panel used to access the waste drain.

I began to trace the piping from the pumps. These pipes lead to a network of small pipes that ended in the trailing edges of the wings and horizontal stabilizers. If you look closely at the wings of a large airplane you will see a set of wires, about the size of your finger, extending from the trailing edge of the wing surfaces. These are the static discharge wicks. They are used to dissipate the static electric charge that builds up on a plane in flight. I discovered that the pipes from this mystery system lead to every 1 out of 3 of these static discharge wicks. These wicks had been "hollowed out" to allow whatever flows through these pipes to be discharged through these fake wicks.

It was while I was on the wing that one of the managers spotted me. He ordered me out of the hanger telling me that my shift was over and I had not been authorized any overtime.

The next couple of days were very busy and I had no time to continue my investigation. Late one afternoon, two days after my discovery, I was called to replace an engine temperature sensor on a plane due to take off in two hours. I finished the job and turned in the paperwork.

About 30 minutes later I was paged to see the General Manager. When I went in his office I found that our union rep and two others who I did not know were waiting on me. He told me that a serious problem had been discovered. He said that I was being written up and suspended for turning in false paperwork. He handed me a disciplinary form stating that I had turned in false paperwork on the engine temperature sensor I had installed a few hours before. I was floored and began to protest. I told them that this was ridiculous and that I had done this work. The union rep spoke up then and recommended that we take a look at the plane and see if we could straighten it all out. It was at this time that I asked who the other two men were. The GM told me that they were airline safety inspectors but would not give me their names.

We proceeded to the plane, which should have been in the air but was parked on our maintenance ramp. We opened the engine cowling and the union rep pulled the sensor. He checked the serial number and told everyone that it was the old instrument. We then went to the parts bay and went back into the racks. The union rep checked my report and pulled from the rack a sealed box. He opened the box and pulled out the engine temperature sensor with the serial number of the one I had installed. I was told that I was suspended for a week without pay and to leave immediately.

I sat at home the first day of my suspension wondering what the hell had happened to me. That evening I received a phone call. The voice told me "Now you know what happens to mechanics who poke around in things they shouldn't. The next time you start working on systems that are no concern of yours you will lose your job. As it is I'm feeling generous, I believe that you'll be able to go back to work soon" CLICK.

Again I had to pick myself from off the floor. I made the connection that what had happened was directly connected to my tracing the mysterious piping. The next morning the General Manager called me. He said that due to my past excellent employment record that the suspension had been reduced to one day and that I should report back to work immediately. The only thing I could think of was what are they trying to hide and who are THEY!

That day at work went by as if nothing had happened. None of the other mechanics mentioned the suspension and my union rep told me not to talk about it. That night I logged onto the Internet to try to find some answers. But the next morning at work I found a note inside my locked locker. It said, "Curiosity killed the cat. Don't be looking at Internet sites that are no concern of yours."

Well that's it. THEY are watching me.

Well you already know what they are doing. I don't know what they are spraying but I can tell you how they are doing it. I figure they are using the "honey trucks". These are the trucks that empty the waste from the lavatory waste tanks. The airports usually contract out this job and nobody goes near these trucks. Who wants to stand next a truck full of sh--. While these guys are emptying the waste tanks they are filling the tanks of the spray system. They know the planes flight path so they probably program the control unit to start spraying some amount of time after the plane reaches a certain altitude. The spray nozzles in the fake static wicks are so small that no one in the plane would see a thing.

God help us all,

A concerned citizen."

i do not know if it is reputable or not, but i would just like to get it out here.

It's not. I first encountered it in another thread a bit ago (it might even be this same thread not sure) but apparently that story has popped up here and there ever since 1999, each time with a new date attached. It is a blatent fraud.

EDIT: oops somehow posted in the wrong thread! The chemtrails must be affected my brain.

[edit on 29/6/05 by FatherLukeDuke]

Originally posted by apc

i do not know if it is reputable or not, but i would just like to get it out here.

It's not. I first encountered it in another thread a bit ago (it might even be this same thread not sure) but apparently that story has popped up here and there ever since 1999, each time with a new date attached. It is a blatent fraud.

well, to counter debunk that debunking, i would point out that if there was a REAL original letter from a whistleblowing aviation mechanic, the disinfo squad would quickly repost it with a bunch of different names to discredit it as genuine.

just sayin'. i don't believe this letter. or disbelieve it. what i have taken from it, is, IF there is a spraying apparatus on some commercial planes, it MAY be installed near the waste disposal systems. there MAY be ........

see? keep things in the "quantum cat" world of both states, and your world will be crisp through fuzziness.

[edit on 29-6-2005 by billybob]

CHEMTRAILS take long weekends off?

well we are at a long weekend in north america. for the americans the holiday is on monday july 4, whereas in canada it is july 1 that is our national day. a neibour who pays attention to such things and does most of her work out doors noticed that chemtrails were mysteriousely lacking over toronto on fri july 1 and sat july 2 untill about 7:00 on sun july 3. it is rather interesting that dureing such a long weekend that chemtrails were not presant. if it was just contrails, that is water vapours from high flying aircraft, then why would they be conspiculasely absent on a long weekend? afterall it's not as in phisics needs time off to relax and be with friends. so why the lack at this time period?

now as has been noted time and time again, i remember as a kid when contrails would start to dissipate within a few minutes whereas today they seem to last for hours. now what would cause this type of change in disipation if they are not realy chemtrails? again when i was younger contrails would be arround prety constantly as we have a prety busy airport in the area, but even then they were just thin lines dissipateing within several minutes of the aircraft passing through. not only that they were only in small areas where the kines would be. at any given time you might have seen mabe three trails at a time and even then only one generaly would be in pristeen condition and you would have seen the aircraft currantly traveling while the others would be pretty much dissipated. now however we have days where the sky is litteraly covered in trails that last for hours, almost as if layed down in a spacific pattern to effect full coverage. now liveing within an area that has such high ammounts of aircraft traffic, one tends to notice that aircraft tend to follow "roadways" that is they tend to all travell along the same path as the others.now in that case contrails tend to also follow these same paths. now these long lasting chemtrails tend to NOT be layed only along these air corridors but all over the sky. they even tend to form a nice criss/cross pattern with nice rows at 90 degrees to each other, a little too neat and tidy for something that would be affected by air currants up there. so it would apear that there is a deffinate look of planning and controll as to how they are layed out. again not something one would expect of something that is just a "natural occurance".

at this point i would love to get a setup with both still and vidio cameras slaved to a radar tracker, with some nice telephoto lenses attached to take a realy good look at these seemingly unmarked aircraft that seem to be the makers of these trails. also worth noteing is the fact that it ONLY seems to be these seemingly unmarked aircr4aft that leave these long lasting trails across our skys, whereas aircraft that tend to be recognisable with company paint jobs don't seem to leave these long lasting trails but only occasionaly leave trails that dissipate like i remember as a kid in short time spans. realy makes one wonder what they are up to.

Originally posted by drogo
now as has been noted time and time again, i remember as a kid when contrails would start to dissipate within a few minutes whereas today they seem to last for hours.

Uhm... well... I do remember contrails lasting all day as a child (in the 80s). I remember being fascinated at how one little jet trail could spread out to form such wide thick cirrus clouds.
As far as the contrails 'taking the weekend off,' I suggest you consult your local weather center. There has been a cold front with widespread disturbances pushing south from Canada, most of which is now directly over my head and has resulted in downed trees all over. The low pressure system behind this front has been a hayday for moisture and has drawn most of the energy from the surrounding systems creating quite a show.
Why oh why would someone with any common sense immediately assume something unnatural is going on beyond the process of compression and combustion within the aircraft's motors? Remember, the simplest explanation is almost always the correct one. Which is simpler... a fairly predictable and quite common weather pattern resulting in lower humidity levels at high altitudes in your region, or the global coop conspiratory spray program has just decided to give their pilots some leave time to watch the fireworks?

Our memories of childhood our often different from what actually happened. I for instance remember long hot summers, yet I grew up in the North of England - so this can't be right!

Seriously tho, I did grow up in a house under a flight path (not near an airport, so they were pretty high when they went overhead), and remember remember watching gorgeous blue skies fill up with contrail patterns and then watching them dissapate as the day wore on. I don't see any difference now, apart from more flights (and less time to stare at the sky)

If this is what the chemtrail debate comes down to: "the contrails look different to when I was a kid" - which it always does, then there isn't much to debate. There is no physical or witness based evidence, just mild paranoia.

EDIT: repeated word

[edit on 4/7/05 by FatherLukeDuke]

Then produce the evidence FatherLukeDuke
You can't because it wasnt then as it is now
The skies are completely different
The presence of overwhelming sylph activity doesn't accord with a couple of years ago, the rippling of clouds through HAARP activity wasn't happening a few years ago
I just went up to the Menwith Hill Independance Day celebration, this Yorkshire-based electronic Satanist temple, the epitome of all blood-sucking evil
The over-charging of the starwars domination of space and earthwise PNAC-predicted dominationof the globe

[edit on 4-7-2005 by dh]