David Paulides Missing 411 ... Disappearances in the national parks

reply to post by NoRulesAllowed


He never said Bigfoot was involved.

reply to post by BobAthome


What do you mean still debated?

The video is fake.

Hoax Video for film festival

Kyle Rankin
Karen Zumsteg

Apologies if you knew that already but just making sure others are aware also.

I found this Interview w/ Dave Paulides whom we just had as a guest discussing a lot of info concerning these disappearances. It's a great interview and he discusses a lot of weird cases. I'm not sure if this interview was posted in his " Ask me anything" thread... So, if I'm posting info already given please forgive the duplicate.

reply to post by tracehd1


Double

Kind of just got into this disappearance phenom - found this George Knapp w/David Paulides interview.

I'll start off by saying I was a federal officer for the forest service, and am now a state park ranger.
I have never seen anything paranormal, just a bunch of city folks getting into trouble in the woods.
I did, and do a missing/lost hiker search once or twice a week. I have worked on plenty of body recoveries and performed countless helicopter extractions.
The biggest problem I see is the amount of unprepared and uneducated (in relation to the outdoors) people flocking to the parks with numbers increasing every year.
A majority of the cases I work are just plain and simple "lost". It amazes me how many people go out with-out a map or any prior knowledge of the area. Everyone now days relies on cell phones for help and don't realize how many dead zones there are in the mountains. I also see many groups of hikers split up and take different routes out, again to become lost and panicked.
I've seen almost every kind of injury and have seen negative animal encounters. Youngsters LOVE to run off while exploring and often get themselves into trouble quickly.
The areas I have worked, and still do, are very harsh and offer little to no protection from the elements. I used to do two to three hypothermia cases a week. I've seen lightning strike victims, minor and major fatal fall victims, stroke, seizure, heart attack, altitude sickness, and about anything else you can imagine.
One of the most increasing statistics is now suicides. For some reason, people are finding the forests and parks a great place to end their lives. Not fun when I have to find them.
There are plenty of cases where I discover an abandoned vehicle in the lot for multiple days and the owner is no where to be found. Sometimes we find a body, sometimes not. One case I found the body of a missing man (3 years later) badly decomposed with a self inflicted gun shot wound.
There is usually an explanation for most of the things I encounter. I have worked in the mountains for my entire life, do around 750 miles of foot patrol a year, and have yet to see something paranormal. I enjoy good mysteries and have an interest in the "unexplained", but don't think there is anything super natural going on in the woods, forests, and parks.

Why wouldn't the National Park System keep just rudimentary stat's on people gone missing, crimes etc...?

Is it a public relations issue, money issue or the government just doesn't care?

rjsfun
I'll start off by saying I was a federal officer for the forest service, and am now a state park ranger.
I have never seen anything paranormal, just a bunch of city folks getting into trouble in the woods.
I did, and do a missing/lost hiker search once or twice a week. I have worked on plenty of body recoveries and performed countless helicopter extractions.
The biggest problem I see is the amount of unprepared and uneducated (in relation to the outdoors) people flocking to the parks with numbers increasing every year.
A majority of the cases I work are just plain and simple "lost". It amazes me how many people go out with-out a map or any prior knowledge of the area. Everyone now days relies on cell phones for help and don't realize how many dead zones there are in the mountains. I also see many groups of hikers split up and take different routes out, again to become lost and panicked.
I've seen almost every kind of injury and have seen negative animal encounters. Youngsters LOVE to run off while exploring and often get themselves into trouble quickly.
The areas I have worked, and still do, are very harsh and offer little to no protection from the elements. I used to do two to three hypothermia cases a week. I've seen lightning strike victims, minor and major fatal fall victims, stroke, seizure, heart attack, altitude sickness, and about anything else you can imagine.
One of the most increasing statistics is now suicides. For some reason, people are finding the forests and parks a great place to end their lives. Not fun when I have to find them.
There are plenty of cases where I discover an abandoned vehicle in the lot for multiple days and the owner is no where to be found. Sometimes we find a body, sometimes not. One case I found the body of a missing man (3 years later) badly decomposed with a self inflicted gun shot wound.
There is usually an explanation for most of the things I encounter. I have worked in the mountains for my entire life, do around 750 miles of foot patrol a year, and have yet to see something paranormal. I enjoy good mysteries and have an interest in the "unexplained", but don't think there is anything super natural going on in the woods, forests, and parks.

How do explain a 3 year old traveling almost 10 miles overnight bare foot and in freezing mountainous terrain. yet found unharmed?

Regards, Iwinder

I've seen, recovered and rescued quite a few kids who wandered WAY off. The parents always wanted me to lecture/scare the kid about the situation when reunited. Kids are fast. Real fast. They don't have the knowledge and preconceived notions about dangers, distance, time, and situational awareness. Look at how many parents loose track of their kids in the home, yard, or playground by taking their eyes off them for a few seconds. Now imagine the scene being in the vast wilderness.

Link to average walking speed: en.wikipedia.org...

10 miles is not far at all. It sounds far to people who don't get out much, but 10 miles is easily doable in under 4 hours. Being lost and wandering always seem to cover LOTS of ground. A month ago I had a couple who were lost 23 miles in (8 hours). They didn't know where they were and instead of turning around, just kept going hoping they would pop out somewhere. And for the shoes being off...their kids. Any parent will tell you about shoes coming off in car seats, stores, home, and in the woods.


All I am saying is that there is usually an explanation. Because no one saw what happened doesn't mean it was super natural. Listening to a radio show or reading a third persons perspective is VERY different than having boots on the ground and living the memories of what I have seen and found. This is my job and I do it well.
Yes, there are some unsolved, unexplained cases, but I have yet to encounter one myself. Until then, stay safe and educate yourself before heading out!

10 miles is not far at all. It sounds far to people who don't get out much, but 10 miles is easily doable in under 4 hours. Being lost and wandering always seem to cover LOTS of ground.

reply to post by rjsfun

That may be if the person is at least a young adult, but I believe its odd that a 3 year old could cover that ground bare foot and going up hill all the way.
Snowy and cold, legs that are only a foot long and feet that are inches in length, too young to have developed muscles as well.

Let me say I am not being combative at all, you post some good points however I cannot fathom a 3 year old doing the ten mile trek under the above conditions.
Yet found the next day with no visible injuries and not suffering from hypothermia either.......sure makes one think a bit.

Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by rjsfun

I may have missed it here in the thread but I do have one very important question to ask you.
Have you read the books?

If not I recommend you try to find some copies, either buy them or check out the used book stores. Either way if you read them you might change your views just a bit.

Very kind of you to be up front stating that you work for the Parks system in the States, very good of you to say so up front loud and clear.

Regards, Iwinder

I read the first Missing book in October of last year and it truly scared the hell out of me. I am talking primal fear, touch of evil type scared, and I don't scare easily.

Question - I would love to read or listen to interviews with survivors that came back...has anyone here found books, sites, videos that include such survivor material?

Also, has anyone heard what Mr. Paulides will research and write about next? Would love to know what he has planned for the future!

I listen to all of Paulides' C2C interviews repeatedly- I enjoy the stories and I hold out some faith that there really is a mystery...

HOWEVER, my BS detector kept chirping. First I wondered why they kept using the phrase "law man" by would never say exactly what he did for the police.

When I started googling I found allegations that he was a cop, but was forced out because he misrepresented his position in the department to solicit autographs from celebrities, claiming it was for charity. I was unable to get the story online from the original source and there is obvious spamming of identical attacks on Paulides to Amazon and Bigfoot sites, so take that with a grain of salt.
link

Then I saw an in-depth treatment of one of his cases here on ATS and found out that Paulides lied about his criteria. He included a case in which there strong indication of a criminal element- thousands of dollars in cash in the abandoned vehicle, a missing gun, and the last known photo of the child shows that her parents disguised her appearance immediately before they all vanished.
missing family- demons involved? Remains found- ats thread

reply to post by The Vagabond


Oh my - Dudley DoRight is just another DoWrong...

Too bad. I really thought Mr. Paulides was credible based on his bio, but then again, who sets out to write a bad resume?

Still, this is a waaay creepy mystery and I would like to know more. Maybe some reliable Park Ranger not in it for the money can pickup the torch (not that I have a problem with making money if it's legit).

reply to post by rjsfun


First, can I just say wow! on this thread still going! It shows a clear interest in whatever it is that's happening out there. Whether Bigfoot, Manbat, or the Koala of Evil, it's important that people pay attention to the lessons the book teaches us.

Second, I'd like to thank rjsfun for contributing to the thread, and before we all jump in and start shouting him down, let's take the time to pick his brains somewhat, before recommending the book to him.

rjs, can I ask firstly, whether or not you are aware of any records that are kept in the park you work in in relation to missing persons? If not, why not?
Also, and this may be something you'd prefer not to answer (which is entirely understandable. TPTB are always watching), but which park is it you actually work in?

And, as an aside, I would recommend the book to you, especially as you're a ranger yourself. While the books may be publicised on various shows as indicating one thing or another, they in fact do a very good job of just presenting facts and letting you make up your own mind. He doesn't suggest criminals, legends etc. He just says "Here is who disappeared, here's what they were doing, here's what happened after," which I think is a very good way of giving us this information.

I believe the main thing Paulides wanted us to take away after reading isn't to beware of boogey men, but simply to be careful. If you're with kids, know where they are at all times. Try not to travel alone, if possible. If you have to, let people know when they should start to worry. Basically, always be safe. People disappear under normal and strange circumstances in those wilds a lot more than I think people will let themselves admit, and Paulides is simply trying to do something to prevent that.

One love.

originally posted by: Missmissie173
reply to post by The Vagabond

 

Oh my - Dudley DoRight is just another DoWrong...

Too bad. I really thought Mr. Paulides was credible based on his bio, but then again, who sets out to write a bad resume?

Not so fast. Unfounded allegations of a misdemeanor do not a criminal make. Paulides may indeed be less than squeaky clean, but I just finished reading all three Missing 411 books and can say that he's definitely on to something. Here's what's keeping me up at night after reading Paulides' books:

- Kids who go missing and are found -- not only a long distance away -- but uphill, at the tops of cliffs and mountains. Typical lost kid behavior according to Search and Rescue experts, is to go downhill.
- Kids who say that a "bear cuddled with them all night and kept them warm." In one case, a bear supposedly gave berries to a child. This is not bear behavior. Neither is tucking a child under its arm and taking off.
- Repeated instances of missing people being found in areas that were previously thoroughly searched.
- Repeated instances of missing peoples' clothing being found folded, next to them, or of experienced woodsmen removing their boots or winter clothing in cold temperatures.

I could go on, but let me just say that I have more questions than answers after reading the books, and that I will never go hiking alone again, even (or especially!) with only my dog for protection. There's something out there, and it isn't cuddly.
-

a reply to: graceunderpressure

While I agree that all of these circumstances are very suspicious and I continue to love the stories, I think the only way I could really recapture the initial magic is to get the books and research the cases all myself, because I simply cannot trust Paulides not to conveniently omit critical details, such as that the people who disappeared had developed drug problems and a feud with their neighbors that included spray painted threats, changed their daughters appearance immediately before disappearing, were looking for remote land to hide out, and took a gun and 10,000 dollars with them to the last place they were ever seen. That's a case that definitely should have been thrown out for a high probability of homicide, but it's in the book.

So when I hear the mysterious circumstances I love it, but I feel like every bit of it is a homework assignment to compare Paulides' angle on the subject to what others closer to the action have to say.

a reply to: The Vagabond
You know, that particular case made me uncomfortable,too. It's one of a few cases (say 5%) that I thought could be more easily explained by very mundane human causes, but the remainder still leave me mystified. If you read every case in every book and research them, I'd be surprised you could attribute most of them to natural causes. I think of the cases from the 1800's that are similar to the cases from recent years...also of cases like the toddler who was found in the middle of a SC river on a sandbar. What would the possible motive be for leaving a kidnapped child in such a odd and inaccessible spot when it would be easier to dump him by a roadway?

originally posted by: The Vagabond
a reply to: graceunderpressure
So when I hear the mysterious circumstances I love it, but I feel like every bit of it is a homework assignment to compare Paulides' angle on the subject to what others closer to the action have to say.

And yes, it is officially your homework assignment. Get to it!!

a reply to: graceunderpressure

Also Vagabond, while you are doing your homework assignment (lol) can you research why I can't find hide nor hair of David Paulides...I have checked both his bigfoot website and his Missing 411 website. Neither website shows any recent updates or news on his projects or books.

Does anyone have any current information on his Missing 411 activities? I was intrigued by the whole mystery.