Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

He was trying to run home and GZ murdered him.

And where is the proof for that one also.

Not everyone here has decided guilt or innocence, some are just trying to understand others thought process and their take on the events. In the end, it will be a court to make the judgement.

reply to post by fbluth


Good way to avoid answering the question. When Trayvon started running he was a good distance away from Zimmerman and Trayvon got a good headstart and was in better shape than Zimmerman (as well as a football player whom Zimmerman couldn't have beat if they were lined up at a starting line) so no matter where Trayvon was when he lost Zimmerman and got that minute or so head start (not to mention it was several minutes between the phone call and the shooting and those several minutes was a much longer time period than it would take to get to Trayvon's dad's) he could have been home.

Most evidence now points to Trayvon doubled back on on Zimmerman. Sorry you are wrong. Trayvon eventually ended up being the pursuer (which makes it very ironic) and he was the attacker and criminal here. You are already arguing against all evidence and soon enough you will be proven wrong in a court of law.

The narrative that George Zimmerman defied police and followed Trayvon is a media hoax.

The 911 call by George Zimmerman was four minutes and five seconds
long. If Trayvon Martin was actually heading back to his father’s
girlfriends’ townhouse, he would have reached the townhouse before the
three minute mark. He was .1 mile or less than the townhouse when he
took off running. Trayvon should have been home and had his skittles
half eaten by the time George Zimmerman even hung up the phone.

www.liveleak.com...

www.wagist.com...

reply to post by roadgravel


The dead body on the ground, the location of that body, added with all the witness statements-- is what proves he was trying to run home and was murdered.

Thats also why he has 2nd degree murder charges against him.

reply to post by fbluth


No TM ran when GZ got out of his vehicle. He likely ran somewhere and kept and eye on him until he could come back on him (just as has been suggested from the beginning when GZ said Trayvon came up to him and sucker punched him when he was on his way back to his car). Most likely when TM saw GZ (from wherever he was hiding in those minutes you TM supporters can't account for - the minutes that would have put him in his living room three times over) turn around and start to head back after giving up looking he moved in on him.

The reason TM would do that? Oh I dunno he was a football playing, testosterone fueled highschooler? Full of testosterone punk? He had comitted crimes including vandalism, assault, burglary (though he wasn't punished by the school and it wasn't investigated), and was on suspension for having drugs in school. I know in your dreams he is a sweet little 3 foot child, but did you ever think he was just a typical highschool football player thug? That is in reality what he was. Not that he should die for it, but it explains why he might do something like get all pumped up and mad that someone would follow him and why he would attack them for it when they turned their back.

Come on. It's bad when I can't suggest an idea, but I have to explain every little detail. You aren't just getting answers from me you are getting crash courses in psychology and sociology as well.

Originally posted by fbluth
reply to post by roadgravel

 

The dead body on the ground, the location of that body, added with all the witness statements-- is what proves he was trying to run home and was murdered.

Thats also why he has 2nd degree murder charges against him.

That location doesn't prove it. He could have been on his way home, or on his way back to GZ. If the witness is credible then it could prove it, assuming they saw GZ chase him down as Martin was running in the direction of his house.

Hopefully there is solid evidence for either case but it seems sketchy at best.

reply to post by fbluth


No it doesn't.. that is just nonsense.

It just means he happened to jump Zimmerman close to his house. If he was trying to run he would have been safe in his house.

Evidence is on my side, but you already knew that.
Trayvon's knuckles were injured in a way that indicates he was beating someone, Zimmerman's knuckles were not. Trayvon had no damage on his body, Zimmerman had lacerations on his head and a broken nose.

The second bullet in the gun did not load into the chamber indicating either the gun was between them when fired or more likely someone was grabbing it holding the slide back. Why would an armed man run down a 6 foot tall 160 lb guy (a guy 4 inches taller than him and ing GZ opinion up to no good and maybe dangerous) in the dark between two houses? Why not pull the gun and hold him at gunpoint? Why would he put himself in a situation where the gun wouldn't help him and could be taken away? He didn't chase this "kid" down(again 6 foot tall 160 lb does not equal a kid) the whole idea is absurd.

What pleasure do you get out of lying to yourself and others?

reply to post by Autumnal


Who said I pulled them over? They were trying to buy more beer when they couldn't even walk right. I just snatched the keys so they couldn't get back into the car and drive away before the cops got there in most cases. A few times I blocked their car in with my truck, pinned between a wall and my truck, they couldn't go anywhere. No way I am letting them get back behind the wheel if I can help it, who knows who they might end up killing if I do.

George Zimmerman 911 call about Trayvon Martin UnRedacted reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


'Most evidence' does not point to TM doubling back to attack anyone. GZ was in his car when TM ran. How was TM supposed to know that GZ was gonna get out of his car to follow him?

How do you know TM 'was a good distance' from GZ when he started to run. I thought he was 'coming to check him out'...i thought TM circled his car.....so how was TM 'a good distance from GZ' when he started to run? Source for that?

could you provide me with stats or sources to how fast both TM and GZ could run the 100 yard dash? I must have missed those reports but you seem confident that there is no way on earth the GZ could catch TM under ANY circumstances. Where did you get that information or is it just part of the GZ is innocent and TM was thug narrative you have made up in your head?

Until you can pinpoint the EXACT location of where TM ran to, the EXACT route he was taking, and the EXACT speed he was running and long he ran for, you can not make ANY of your claims. Those are all things that you WANT to have happened, but you can not back up in any way shape or form.

And if you are so concerned about TM making it back to his house, then why didn't GZ make it back to his car? He exited his car at and shut the door at 2:14 seconds....he is says 'ok' at 2:28. That is 14 seconds. He says 'he ran', again at 2:38s. The heavy breathing goes on until 2:42s. The call with dispatch goes on for another 87 seconds. From exit of his car to heavy breathing stopping is 28 seconds. So how didn't GZ make it back to his car in 87 seconds when he was told to stop following 14 seconds after he got of his vehicle?

Place the blame on the person it belongs, GZ. Why don't you ask these same question about GZ and only TM? Seems like you have a biased opinion....it seems since you joined Team GMurder that ANY and ALL of GZ actions are ok with you and ALL of TM actions (which are are speculation since he is dead) were him asking to be murdered. Very very odd.

reply to post by fbluth


You can do this all day long it doesn't make you right.

Prove that GZ was in his car when TM started to run (he wasn't because GZ obviously starts to follow him on foot as soon as he says it).

The distance we can estimate because he is far enough away to see him, but not hear him etc. and when you consider the location, the distance away was likely across the street or a bit further than that. What would you guess the distance to be since you are being such a smarta** about it? You can figure just as well as me and both of us have enough common sense to understand what kinds of ranges we are talking about here.

TM was a football player and at the perfect weight for his height 6 foot 160 lb. GZ was overweight at 5'8" 185. Even if GZ was as fast as TM which, let's be real, is ridiculous, TM had several minutes head start. Several minutes is more of a headstart than he actually need to get home. So he should have been inside before GZ even started trying to find him. He could have probably been home before GZ got off the phone.

I don't know why I waste my time though, you don't want to learn anything you just want to argue. You will see soon enough after court.[.

Also I am only on the side of the truth. You are the biased one. I have argued on both sides. Why am I on this side now, because this is the truth. I have said GZ was stupid for getting out of his car and looking for the kid, but he committed no crime. That is as far as I can go against him because that is as far as he has done wrong

OK I think I am starting to get the disconnect...
You are so confused on this topic because you have no real idea what happened.
You do realize that TM didn't attack him like moments after the phone call ended right? He didn't turn around and walk ten feet back to his car. It was a while later that he decided to go back to his car after he had already walked quite a bit further away and then decided to turn back. No wonder you have no idea what is going on..
Maybe I will outline the whole situation for you guys sometime. Just not now.

My mind is officially blown. I have been arguing with you all this time and you are completely CLUELESS!

Originally posted by fbluth

'Most evidence' does not point to TM doubling back to attack anyone. GZ was in his car when TM ran. How was TM supposed to know that GZ was gonna get out of his car to follow him?

I have a question.

Didn't Dee Dee say TM was concerned some creepy guy was following him. She told him to run and he did. Then she said - he said - he ducked under an overhang or something because it started to rain harder. Wouldn't that give GZ time to get ahead of him - - - and also delay the time in which TM could have made it to his house?

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Who ever said TM was running home? Who ever said TM HAD to run home? We know he was headed that way before GZ interjected himself into TM life and decided to end it. I know if I am being followed by a strange man in a car Im not running STRAIGHT to my house. Im gonna try and lose him so he DOESN'T see where I live. And since you know the general vicinity in which GZ truck was park we know he would have been in a direct path to TM house. So again, please provide a source as to where TM ran to, what direction, how fast. etc. Until you can do that you are just assuming you know TM actions that night.

If GZ stopped following you would have been back at his car. He had 87 seconds to get there. So why is only TM to blame for not making it back to his house and GZ is a hero for REFUSING to return to his vehicle?

until you can start using facts I know you have an agenda. How long has the autopsy report been available online? Why do you keep saying TM was 6' and 160lbs? It is a FACT FACT FACT that TM was 5'11'' and 158lbs. these are not hard numbers to forget. GZ was reported as 5'8 and 185lbs. So TM had 3 inches on GZ and GZ had at least 27lbs on TM.......i would think someone after the truth would at least report facts and not just make up numbers like you did.

Did you ever think that maybe GZ did pull the gun to hold TM at gunpoint and the gun accidentally went off in all the adrenaline fueled intensity? That could never happen right? And if that did happen GZ shouldn't be held accountable for it right? I mean, he was just chasing down a kid with some candy and drink.....they are dangerous. As for the queston as to why an armed man would chase down a guy in between dark house, we will get a chance to ask GZ that during his trial. Its not something a rational person does, so I can't answer it, only GZ can.

If he didn't chase the kid down then who did the witness see being chased? Was GZ running toward TM house and away from his truck, that doesn't make sense, what makes sense is GZ was chasing TM TOWARDS his house. Again, silly logic.

Since you lied twice in the post im responding to about TM weight and height I have to ask you the same thing you asked me.......

What pleasure do you get out of lying to yourself and others?

reply to post by Annee


That's like saying TM was more scared of the rain then the situation he was in, really doesn't make much sense..... I don't think her witness testimony is good anyways, she might just be a lil bias.... It is kind of funny though how she knows all these unknowable things like somebody got pushed or it started to rain harder, she must be some kind of remote viewer from ATS to have this kind of knowledge lol...

Originally posted by jheated5
reply to post by Annee

 

That's like saying TM was more scared of the rain then the situation he was in, really doesn't make much sense..... I don't think her witness testimony is good anyways, she might just be a lil bias.... It is kind of funny though how she knows all these unknowable things like somebody got pushed or it started to rain harder, she must be some kind of remote viewer from ATS to have this kind of knowledge lol...

I want facts.

Not interested in your bias opinion,

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by jheated5
reply to post by Annee

 

That's like saying TM was more scared of the rain then the situation he was in, really doesn't make much sense..... I don't think her witness testimony is good anyways, she might just be a lil bias.... It is kind of funny though how she knows all these unknowable things like somebody got pushed or it started to rain harder, she must be some kind of remote viewer from ATS to have this kind of knowledge lol...

I want facts.

Not interested in your bias opinion,

Where are your facts????? Funny how you want facts but you base your entire argument on opinions..... A little laughable TBH....

gogo lets stop arguing about the advice of the 911 operator it seems to me its a matter of i say tomato you say tomatow.

as far as the fear factor, it goes both ways gogo, if trayvon was scared of zimmerman why didnt he run home? if zimmerman was scared of trayvon why did he get out of his car and chase/follow trayvon? this is a case that we dont know all the evidence or facts yet. so far none of the evidence that angela coreys team of investigators have found has been made public.

a lot of the witnesses statements contradict each other, one of the witnesses even places zimmerman on top! perhaps in the struggle at one point zimmerman had the upper hand. dead men tell no tales, so we will never get to hear trayvons side of the story.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


You can do this all day too, and it doesn't make you right. What was you point with that statement?

OMG. We know GZ was in his truck when he says TM 'ran'. You obviously have not listened to the dispatch call. You can hear when he exits the vehicle and shuts the door. He says 'he's running' BEFORE he gets out.....jeez oh jeez....what is your agenda?

You use words like 'estimate' and 'consider' and 'likely' those are you opinions and not facts. I don't know where TM was when he ran, I have never claimed to know where TM was when he ran or where he ran to. You are the one doing that, and you are the one being a 'smarta**" like you accused me of being. I am simply pointing out to you that you are ASSUMING and awful lot about TM actions when you have ZERO proof to back up your 'claims'.

You again repeat a lie. TM was not 6' and 160lbs....he was 5'11'' and 158lbs. You continue to assume you know that GZ couldn't run as fast as TM and that you know TM had 'several' minute head start. Why can't you stick to the facts, why do you insist that TM was an inch taller and 2lbs heavier than he was? Its a small detail, but it seems to be an important lie you insist on holding on to, why is that?

Ill quote you again, but your words fit you, not me ......I don't know why I waste my time though, you don't want to learn anything you just want to argue. You will see soon enough after court.[.

I see you want to avoid what I pointed out to you. How would TM have known that GZ was GOING to get out of his car? TM ran when GZ was still in his car, so why would TM double back .... he had no idea GZ was going to get out of his car. You also ignored the question, why didn't GZ make it back to his car if he quit following TM? He had 87 to make it back to his vehicle, if you are so concerned with why TM didn't make it home, why aren't you just as concerned that GZ didn't make it back to his truck in 87 seconds.

It seems that when you are presented with facts you get very defensive and start calling names....'smarta**, clueless, biased, etc'.........that also says alot.

reply to post by Annee


I found an unbiased news article here that explains how it was probably not a hate crime, and how at the moment, it is up in the air about whether or not Zimmerman was attacked.

This article here shows blood on the back of Zimmerman's head, as if he had been attacked.

This article here explains where the blood on the back of Zimmerman's head might have come from.

Here is a medical report that shows Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman.

Notice the media, at least ABC, is finally declaring him as a "Democrat Hispanic" who acted in self-defense.

This story here reports that the autopsy found marijuana in Trayvon Martin's blood. Not sure if that is relevant, but it is the case.

I think it is unfortunate that Zimmerman wasn't able to take on Martin in hand-to-hand combat, it would have resulted in a better outcome.

Originally posted by jheated5

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by jheated5
reply to post by Annee

 

That's like saying TM was more scared of the rain then the situation he was in, really doesn't make much sense..... I don't think her witness testimony is good anyways, she might just be a lil bias.... It is kind of funny though how she knows all these unknowable things like somebody got pushed or it started to rain harder, she must be some kind of remote viewer from ATS to have this kind of knowledge lol...

I want facts.

Not interested in your bias opinion,

Where are your facts????? Funny how you want facts but you base your entire argument on opinions..... A little laughable TBH....

Dude - - wake up.

I asked a question.

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by Annee

 

I found an unbiased news article that explains how it was probably not a hate crime, and how at the moment, it is up in the air about whether or not Zimmerman was attacked.

I began following this on talk radio - - before it hit ATS.

The information you are providing is very bias. I've heard it all - - not interested.

I am only interested in a factual answer to the question I asked.

reply to post by Annee


Well Dee Dee said those things, you just have the order wrong.

She said GZ spotted TM under the overhang of the mailboxes where TM was waiting out the rain. She say that TM told her some man was watching him from his car on his telephone, she says to run, he says he's gonna walk faster, ...... it is moments later that TM tells her that the 'crazy creepy' guy is following him again. She tells him to run, he says he isn't going to because he is pretty close to home....then she hears TM and GZ exchange words...she hears a scuffle of some sort and the then the call is disconnected.

Dee Dee time line fits perfectly with all of the 911 calls and GZ dispatch call. I have a timeline of GZ dispatch call, dee dees call, and all the 911 calls .... all except dee dees are time stamped to the seconds.......as much as people want to somehow discount dee dee every thing she says and her call logs with all the other calls all match up PERFECTLY with the timeline.

I think, myself, that GZ was blocking the 'T' Sidewalk where TM would have walked down...and I think TM ran back towards the mailboxes and up around the house back to Retreat View Circle and then cam around the other side of the 'T' sidewalk and that is where GZ and him meet. This would account for the time that GZ lost him and the time TM was making up the extra distance added to his house from the detour. I can show what I mean better with a map of the neighborhood.

Point is, all the calls fit perfectly with GZ and TM crossing path, and TM running from GZ until he was caught and murdered.