Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Autumnal

 

Show me evidence Trayvon started the fight and I will leave the thread.

You dont understand how criminal justice works.

Do not attempt to tell me what I do and do not understand all while you are failing miserably to read and retain information. I am not talking about the criminal justice system. I was addressing another poster who was trying to tell me something was a known fact based on the evidence.

Instead of butting in randomly, follow along and waste a little less of our time.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Autumnal

 

Well.. me because I am right.

That is convincing.

...and just who the hell are you?

Originally posted by Hardstepah
well obviously it isn't worth the time. you obviously have made up your mind and are trying to derail your flawed arguments.

Please point out the flaw in my argument.
Bonus points if you can tell me how I derailed my own argument.
Then I want to know why you wrote all this for something that is not worth the time?

the evidence is clear that george zimmerman was attacked, that is not to say trayvon started it, just that trayvon most likely got the upper hand seeing that all that was wrong with trayvon was a bullet and some scraped knuckles.

So you concede that Zimmerman may have started it yet you still somehow blame the victim? If Zimmerman started it, does Martin not have a right to defend himself?

oh and to elaborate, yes i have been in my fair share but then i grew up after high school. and i agree, there is a winner and loser, and had GZ not shot trayvon, he may have lost more than a fight.

Had he stayed the # in his truck they would both be alive.

nice deflective tactics and name calling though, i applaud. that's what you angry mob types cling to when your argument is invalid.

What was deflective? I do not believe you know what that word actually means.
I called no one names.
What are you talking about?

ETA: also, show me evidence that zimmerman started it. prove god does/doesn't exist argument. nobody knows except GZ and trayvon

edit on 21-5-2012 by Hardstepah because: (no reason given)

Then stop saying Trayvon started it. If you can find one single post where I definitively stated as a fact that either one of them started it then you might have a point. Until then, you are the only one using that argument between the two of us.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Autumnal

 

Sorry.. you implied that someone might be retarded.

No, I did not.

The damage was to trayvon's knuckles damage that happens when you punch someone.

Source?

Obviously you have never been in a fight.

Not going to say I have been in a lot but I sure have punched a person in the face. This is why I asked you to be specific about what wound or wounds were found on his knuckles. Why did you fail to do that?

Zimmerman followed only so he could keep tabs on Trayvon because he didn't want him to get away.

It does not matter why. He had no responsibility or need to follow the kid in the first place.

He was trying to keep track of him so he could guide police to him obviously.

For what? If no crime were committed then what did the police need to catch up with him for?

He even mentions how they always get away.

YUP! He sure does which says a ton about his mindset.

You guys are being intentionally dense. It must be awful to be so brainwashed that you start lying to yourself.

If you say so. You are the one claiming to know things that no one knows and stating them as facts. I am not doing anything of the kind.
So please cite your source on Trayvon's wounds.

I probably shouldn't even have replied to your post because you made no ground.

Yet you did so now we know just how smart you are.

Everything I said previously still stands. There is evidence that Zimmerman was attacked by Trayvon. You were wrong and still are.

When are you going to provide that evidence?

reply to post by Autumnal


last reply in this thread. you people just don't get it. i concede that you and i don't know who started it, but the evidence points to zimmermans story checking out.

it isn't worth the time because i have had to explain this throughout this thread but you ignorant folk refuse to look at the ACTUAL evidence. you just counter with nothing but speculation. and yes you clearly have no idea how evidence in a court of the law works. i'm done repeating myself on this subject. learn how the justice system works before you go clinging to your invalid arguments and deflective tactics. you seem to have showed up late to the party. maybe when you get over the hatred you've been conditioned to feel for GZ you may be able to take an unbiased look at the facts

reply to post by Autumnal


Who am I? The guy whose reply you cherry picked and only responded to the first line of bevause you are just a troll andhave little to zip understanding of this case. I have flat out proven you wrong several times and if you or anyone else wants me to "show my work" on that they can just follow the string of replies from this post back. _ am right and your post was a weak deflection that used one line of mine that was a joke to avoid answering the bulk of my comment which would have further humiliated you had this been a public face to face argument.

tptb are confusing the will of the people thus causing division amongst eachother. if we fight amongst eachother then we are weak like strands of thread, but unified we can flatten any mountain.

"if you decieve your enemy you have won before the battle has begun"

reply to post by Autumnal


You did, but it's ok you didn't know the definitionn of evidence so I don't expect you to know the definition of imply either.

You are the one that wants to debate. Go to google and walk your under and misinformed fingers across and type in "damage to trayvons knucles." It was the kind of damage seen from landing multiple hard blows. Pictures released of zimmerman from that night shows no damageon his knuckles. Do I have to hold your hand through the thread or are u capable of educating yourself BY yourselfenough to argue? Why are you arguing since you obviously don' know all the facts?

The rest of your post was just the garbage you guys have repeated. So what zimmerman committed no crime in getting out of his truck he can get out and keep an eye on whomever he likes. Trayvon was acting suspicious in his opinion and he didn't know if he was up to something or not, but in retrospect zimmerman had a pretty good hunch wouldn't you say? The teen was a vandal, theif (stealing jewelry), he had assaulted people in the past, and was on suspension from school for drugs. Little did he know trayvon would commit another crime in a few minutes by bashing zimmermans head in (do you still consider the head bashing the reaction of a scared child and not a criminal?) For all we know there was more too it, maybe martin was out getting high and casing the neighborhood he was acting ver slow and swaying at the gas station.
In the end trayvonn was the only one accused of a crime by a witnss and victim and the only one that evidence suggests comitted a crime. So read up on the case and get back to me someday.

reply to post by Autumnal


Do you really need me to answer that?......
Obviously drunk driving. In both NY and CT. It's sad that you needed that answered, now I see why you can't follow the evidence and put two and two together in this case....

Zimmerman was not out to kill anyone
this guy did not get wound up off killing people.
The situation despite anyones opinion is tragic
and remember cooler heads prevail.
Zimmerman has to live the rest of his life
with that on his shoulders it is punishment
in itself.

Know what it is like to have to kill a man?
It takes a piece of your soul.

reply to post by Maslo


maslo at least you are having a civil discussion with us in this thread without losing your cool, which is more than i can say for other people in this thread. if people on this thread are going to resort to name calling and getting all angry when people do not share their opinion, i suggest they leave the thread like they said they were going to.

this is a conspiracy site and as far as i know none of us are lawyers or have all the evidence and or knowledge as to how it will work in a court of law the closest we have is xcathdra, and even then this is not a court of law and if people want to share their opinions they should be able to without being attacked,(called retards and village idiots etc etc) by people with the opposite opinion.

here is a very good link w several witness testimony recordings

zimmerman/martin timeline

In a timeline included in evidence documents released last week, Sanford police spelled out down to the second, what happened the night George Zimmerman fatally shot Trayvon Martin, based on time-stamped calls to their dispatch center.

It shows Zimmerman fired 1 minute, 57 seconds after he hung up.

1911:12 - Call received from George Zimmerman reporting suspicious person

1913:19 - Zimmerman relays that suspicious person is running from him

1913:36 - Dispatcher asks Zimmerman if he is following suspicious person

1913:36 - Dispatcher advises Zimmerman "Okay; we don't need you to do that"

1915:23 - Approximate time call with Zimmerman ends

1916:43 - 911 call placed by (blacked out name) where Zimmerman is heard screaming for help

1917:20 - Shot fired; screams from Zimmerman cease

1917:40 - Officer T. Smith arrives on scene

1919:43 - Officer T. Smith locates and places Zimmerman in custody.

Source: The office of Special Prosecutor Angela Corey from the Report of Investigation prepared by Sanford police Investigator Chris Serino.

reply to post by conspiracy nut

this is a conspiracy site and as far as i know none of us are lawyers or have all the evidence and or knowledge as to how it will work in a court of law the closest we have is xcathdra, and even then this is not a court of law and if people want to share their opinions they should be able to without being attacked,(called retards and village idiots etc etc) by people with the opposite opinion.

Excellent post.
Even the words of famous lawyers when they have expounded with their opinions are just that, an opinion.

The only people that matter at this very point are the prosecution, defense team and the judge. If the judge dismisses the case, it is done. If the case goes to trial, then the jury will be added to the list of people that matter.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


After he's given you the same answer forty more times he might be prone to outbursts too.

I've tried to have civil conversation with you, but you ignore even the basic facts of the case. You won't even concede the FACT that no police or dispatcher (not that 911 dispatchers have any power) ever advised Zimmerman against following Trayvon. That is an undeniable fact that we have gone over and over.

All you need to do is look up a youtube video that has the entire 9-11 dispatch on it and listen.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


Ok.. two things worth noting there. The first being that the (ahem) the 911 dispatcher never advised Zimmerman not to pursue, he simply confirms that Zimmerman isn't required to and that they don't need him to do that ("we don't need you to do that" are the exact words I think). Second thing worth noting is that well before the phone call ends Zimmerman says the person is running and he lost sight of him. We can tell from the phone call that Zimmerman may be moving to try to catch sight and find Trayvon, but we know that he is not running as he carries on the conversation and eventually his voice and breathing turns back to normal while he is on the phone (he likely jogged a short bit to try to see Trayvon and then shortly after the dispatcher says "we don't need you to do that" he quits). The phone call continues. The time between when he says he lost sight of Zimmerman and the time the phone call ends.. that is all a headstart for Trayvon. That is time that Trayvon can run with no one chasing him or stopping him. It's at least 30 seconds and up to a minute or two. Given the short distance to Trayvon's house he should have without a doubt made it home, maybe before Zimmerman could even start to look for him, but definitely before Zimmerman could talk for a bit, hang up, and then track Trayvon down. What this says to me (and should say to anyone with any brains whatsoever) is that for some reason Trayvon didn't go home. He had plenty of time to. So it appears that he either hid or doubled back around to get behind Zimmerman.

This just helps Zimmerman's case because if Trayvon was truly afraid he would have been home probably by the time Zimmerman was off the phone with 9-11 and definitely before ZImmerman could catch him. He wasn't afraid, he lost Zimmerman and then Trayvon likely began stalking him (ironically) and attacked him.

It is a scenario, but you need to take it into careful consideration, because that time has to be accounted for. Trayvon had a huuge headstart and he was killed only 70 yards from his front door. He had ample time to make it home yet he didn't for some reason, yet he did bash Zimmerman's head in. WHY didn't he go home if he was running scared? Zimmerman COULDN'T have caught him unless he doubled back or hid for a period of time.

I don't want any b.s. I want real debate. This has been an important factor I have tried to get one of you on the opposing side of the argument to answer for and I have gotten nothing but answers that weasel out of actually answering anything.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Lol. Ok

Sooo what are your questions?

I promise to answrr them all with facts. Without biased opinions also.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Autumnal

 

Do you really need me to answer that?......
Obviously drunk driving. In both NY and CT. It's sad that you needed that answered, now I see why you can't follow the evidence and put two and two together in this case....

You never said anything about them driving. Now I am dying to know how you pulled them over.

while he is on the phone (he likely jogged a short bit to try to see Trayvon and then shortly after the dispatcher says "we don't need you to do that" he quits). The phone call continues. The time between when he says he lost sight of Zimmerman and the time the phone call ends.. that is all a headstart for Trayvon.

Did you mean Zimmerman lost sight of Martin?

I also wondered why Martin did not go to his house as he was pretty close. Just seemed odd if he was frightened.

It seems a few posters seem to know exactly where TM was standing when he decided to RUN AWAY FROM gun toting crazed GZ. I would like a source as to the exact point TM was in the neighborhood and I would like to know in what direction TM ran.

If I recall GZ said 'he ran'. When asked where he ran. He says 'towards the back gate'.

So GZ fans. Where EXACTLY was TM standing when he decided to run....what EXACT path did he take? How long EXACTLY did he run? What exact direction did TM run in? How fast was TM running?

It keeps getting brought up that TM was 70 yards from his home and why didn't he run there?

Good question......none of which can be answered until GZ fans can tell me EXACTLY where TM was when he started running, how fast he was running, in what direction he was running, and how long did he run for?

I will wait for a source, or GZ fans can admit they don't have the answers and the only answer at this point that can be given to the question of 'why didn't TM run home' is .............

He was trying to run home and GZ murdered him.

For a site that loves to DEMAND sources I see alot of GZ fans are assuming that they know exactly what GZ saw that night. Oh the irony.

ETA.....why would TM 'double back' to attack GZ? When TM ran GZ was still in his vehicle......how was TM EVER supposed to know the GZ was gonna get out and follow him on foot? So was TM a physic now too? He ran from a man in a car, not a man on foot. It is just silly to think that TM went to hide or double back to attack GZ when GZ as far TM knew never left his car. So how was TM to know GZ was gonna get out on foot to follow?

If TM was gonna attack GZ he would have done it right there by his car. He never would have ran. GZ fans just don't use common sense or logic.

reply to post by roadgravel


Yes.
Zimmerman says in the 911 call recording that the guy (trayvon) starts running and then he says he loses him. Zimmerman sounds breathing changes and the dispatcher asks if he is following him and he says yes, the dispatcher says "we don't need you to do that" and Zimmerman says "Ok" and shortly after saying that his breathing normalizes as, I assume, he stops trying to follow and find Trayvon.

Then he continues talking on to 911 for a bit all the while Trayvon is putting more and more distance between them. By the time he gets off the phone Trayvon could have been home several times over when George begins either scanning the area looking for him or going back to his truck. Trayvon didn't though he magically reappears and attacks Zimmerman.

People on this thread want you to believe that Zimmerman was chasing Trayvon and never lost sight of him until they met and the "fight" and shooting occured. What really happened was Zimmerman saw Trayvon, Trayvon ran, and then in the process of trying to find Trayvon so he could direct the police when they got there, the two met again (most likely due to Trayvon blindsiding Zimmerman from a hiding space, or double back around on him). The one thing that is certain is that Trayvon had plenty of a headstart and was in better shape (a football player, etc) yet somehow they came into contact with each other (something Zimmerman never attempted when he first saw the teen, which is worth noting, why not run him down the second he saw him?) again less than a football field from Trayvon's front door.

It's really obvious to anyone that cares to look into it. I was vehemently against Zimmerman until I really dug into it (you can see me being a jerk to OP on the very first comment of the very first page of this thread) and then changed my mind.