Vatican exposures: Catholic ATS members? What say you?

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by nenothtu

 

The remnant of what is Roman Catholic?

The so-called Great Warning, the day Jesus returns, there will be an annihilation or some such thing of all other Christian sects.....
colbe says the only ones left of all the Christian faiths/sects to be going to heaven will be the Catholics.

I have been away, didn't see this. It's incorrect. The Great Warning is to save souls, a 2nd Pentecost for the entire world. No one is going to be annihilated, we only need to make a choice. This is a great gift from God.

Nothing anyone says or does is going to stop it from happening. It's
God's great love for His creation.

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Throughout the ages the Church as had bad Popes. Popes made by political appointments, Popes that had STDs and have had children. No doubt they have lost many followers and many stayed because when you believe something you do not allow the bad actions of others to dissuade you. What I see as my truths didn't change.

Could we get together to protest this? We all got hit with the same bullet. We were in shock. I know of a Priest that broke down during the Consecration and put his head on the altar and sobbed when local abuses were made known. My pastor told me: "Now people assume we are guilty." The diocesan newspaper openly acknowledged that Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope) held a position in the Church that meant he had the authority for what happened with the priest shuffling. My friends and I talked about these issues including Fr.Maciel (Opus Dei) over breakfast alot. One was a former Opus Dei member. She was smart to see his demand for complete submission to him was evil and got out before their scandal was made public.

I have mentioned Ratzingers involvement on ATS..

The media stories told the tale. We didn't need to protest.

Well, I did just email the pope a few days ago about his designer cologne. I wonder if anyone ever called him "Dude" before?.

edit on 3/20/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: add a ?

edit on 3/20/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)

This is disgusting. You are wrong lady. There have been a few non-Popes who were bad not a duly elected pope.

Shame on you, you make Our Lord a liar. He would not, will not leave His
chosen leader, no way (Matt 16:18). Yes, Satan's smoke has entered the Vatican, it's prophesied so is the abomination of desolation.

The evil one doesn't care about false religions or heretical non-Catholic Christianity, it's the true faith he wishes to destroy. The greatest persecution of the faith is ahead, figure it out.

What's wrong with you, you are suppose to defend the faith? I thought
you were Roman Catholic. Doesn't sound it.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

 

Could we get together to protest this? We all got hit with the same bullet. We were in shock. I know of a Priest that broke down during the Consecration and put his head on the altar and sobbed when local abuses were made known. My pastor told me: "Now people assume we are guilty."

The diocesan newspaper openly acknowledged that Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope) held a position in the Church that meant he had the authority for what happened with the priest shuffling. My friends and I talked about these issues including Fr.Maciel (Opus Dei) over breakfast alot. One was a former Opus Dei member. She was smart to see his demand for complete submission to him was evil and got out before their scandal was made public.

Okay, thanks very much for that lucid response.
You are right, through out history, especially during the middle ages and pre-Reformation...it was all about politics and control.
How does the Church now explain the Crusades, the Inquisition, the witch-hunts, the Nero burnings? Do they excuse it?
Look the other way?

What do you think happened to Pope John Paul? Were you aware of his having exposed some things right before he "died" (I assume you were)....if you found out he'd been murdered to cover things up, how would you react?

I really appreciate your participation here, sad-eyed-lady.
I'm in the Midwest also.
Are you going to promote Santorum?

ETA: LOL! You called him "dude"? You go, girl!
I'm not above calling anyone Dude. That's what he is, a man. Do you see him as the actual spokesperson for God?

edit on 20-3-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Sad eyed lady,

Wake up. You have the OP's approval. She started this thread to
get the responses you just gave her. Wildtimes isn't Catholic, she
is ignorant about the faith but you are not ignorant.

wildtimes laughs at and mocks Santorum, a good man, how can you ignore?

She needs our prayers. She is foolish.

reply to post by colbe

This is disgusting. You are wrong lady. There have been a few non-Popes who were bad not a duly elected pope.

Shame on you,

Ah! I see! You are the person this thread was directed toward.

reply to post by pthena

I have protested, voted, written letters to congress, presidents, ambassadors, etc. Yet the violence doesn't stop. Should I be blamed now by friends and relatives of victims of U.S. violence for not renouncing U.S. citizenship?

I still believe in a certain core of American ideal. I can understand how a Roman Catholic may also hold a certain core belief without being part of scandalous behavior and official policy of cover up.

You make a very good point.
Taking action is important; voicing your opinion, putting pressure on the leaders to stop their corrupt behavior is what is called for. Absolutely.

Please understand, I'm not BLAMING anyone but the perpetrators individually. Just as a President can be impeached, a CEO can be "asked to retire", a whistle-blower can turn in a rat, ....so can a bishop or priest be removed from office. But this is not happening at the top, where it should be.

The United States of America's government provides checks and balances, at least...and tangible citizenship...which citizenship CAN be renounced. I am not aware of a policy that strips people of citizenship, however. Is there one? I was under the impression that the USA is not in the habit of exiling people, but imprisoning them for egregious wrongdoing (sometimes, and not often enough).

Yet, the Catholic Church can and does excommunicate members, right? Members can be kicked out, shunned. So why does that not apply to the perpetrators of these acts? I realize there has been millions spent, and more set aside to settle with the victims, and that lawsuits are filed and the Church has, in that way, been held accountable.

Apparently for some people, their "faith" is akin to being patriotic about one's nation. I see. Thanks for clarifying that.

My personality is more of a "take it or leave it" type; my allegiance is not infinite and unbreakable to anything except my children and family. Everything else I can walk away from with varying degrees of remorse, from none at all to "well, I enjoyed working here, and I'm going to miss everybody I liked, and the experience has been great, but I can no longer participate in this." Disillusionment is the proper word. Once disillusioned, I will leave. Country, church, job, brand name, friendship, bank, leisure group, social circle, school... it doesn't matter.

The only thing that is absolutely sacred in my heart is my family, and that includes my animal companions, and this earth. I can't renounce my citizenship on Earth without dying, and have no desire to. Likewise, I can't and won't renounce my citizenship in the universe. (I would, however, like to change how human beings treat each other and the Earth. In my mind, the only way to do that is to refuse to participate in those behaviors).

You mention MLK Jr. One of his quotes is a favorite of mine:
Our lives begin to end the day we remain silent about things that matter.

reply to post by Misoir

First off, none of us really care how you see it. Second, the RCC is one of the few incubator of understanding left in this world after it has been poisoned with moral relativism, liberalism, individualism, secularism; all wrapped up within modernity. I chose the Catholic faith because it holds the absolute truths as real, self-evident, and emanating from the divine. And as stated before, I know the history of the Church as I do the history of men. The Christian teachings clearly state man is a fallen creation, prone to sin. How can we look upon history and deny this?

Finally, I am not a ‘modern person’. Modernity is an outright disaster and I refuse to accept it as valid. As commonly accepted ideas on values, government, politics, and so on are monsters. You are, as the other 95%+ of people, a member of this ungodly group.

Really?

I wish I could take back the star I gave you after the first line of this response.
Who is "us"? For whom are you speaking? The entire Catholic faith? All Christians?

You wanted sources for evidence of how many people have been harmed.
Here you go: This article is a bulleted, outlined list of the numbers of people slaughtered by decree, followed by a bibliography of sources (quite lengthy), and a video (which I have not yet watched, but will) featuring a 22-year veteran priest. The question the article is presented to answer is this:

How many people have died in the name of Christ, Christianity and Catholicism?

VICTIMS OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH by Kelsos
Listed are only events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete)

I don't see any call for you to be spiteful and call me names and try to hurt me. I am only asking questions.

reply to post by colbe

I have been away, didn't see this. It's incorrect. The Great Warning is to save souls, a 2nd Pentecost for the entire world. No one is going to be annihilated, we only need to make a choice.

Thank you for clearing that up. And "when" is "soon"? When are you expecting this Great Warning, by Easter?

reply to post by colbe

This is disgusting.
You are wrong lady.
...snipped ignorant lie...
Shame on you, you make Our Lord a liar.
...snip...
What's wrong with you, you are suppose to defend the faith? I thought
you were Roman Catholic. Doesn't sound it.

These are your attacks against sad-eyed-lady in your reply to her.
Here are your attacks on me in the next one:

Sad eyed lady,

Wake up. You have the OP's approval.

for being adult and addressing the issues at hand, unlike you.

She started this thread to
get the responses you just gave her.

Yep. So?

... she is ignorant about the faith but you are not ignorant.

slandering me again

wildtimes laughs at and mocks Santorum, a good man, how can you ignore?

and again.

I AM NOT MOCKING AND MAKING JOKES.

She needs our prayers. She is foolish.

Nice.

I'm done putting up with your crap colbe. And I'm not above reporting you to the mods. Consider it a Great Warning.

Originally posted by pthena

Ah! I see! You are the person this thread was directed toward.

colbe is one of the Catholics I suspected would respond, but really the thread is directed toward anyone who is Catholic on ATS. I don't think colbe is a good representative of Catholics. I wanted to hear from folks like you and sad-eyed-lady who could discuss rationally and answer my questions with mutual respect. I thank you both for participating.

reply to post by colbe

The Great Warning is to save souls, a 2nd Pentecost for the entire world.

You can find this same thing in the Seventh Day Adventist church, called The Loud Cry.
The Latter Rain

Anyone else notice Colby mostly ignores peoples questions?

I've seen at least 3 different threads where people including myself ask him relevent question, and he completely ignores them... yet continues to pound out those prohpecies...

Not like anyone reads them anymore either way though...

I agree with wildtimes... hes not a good representitive for Catholics on these forums. I'd actually say he likely pushes people away from the religion, even thnough he tells people it is the ONLY religion.... and assumes everyone will convert eventually... what a joke!

reply to post by wildtimes


Let me apologize for being so aggressive. It was completely unnecessary and entirely my fault. As for calling you names, why would you necessarily be offended by what I had called you? Are you not proud of being a Modernist? 95% or more of the populace is a Modernist and from everything you wrote you are one as well. It all depends upon the perception of the meaning behind it; to a Modernist, being called one is a good thing, to a Reactionary, it is a bad thing. Either way it is nothing to get overly offended about.

reply to post by Akragon

Anyone else notice Colby mostly ignores peoples questions?

I've seen at least 3 different threads where people including myself ask him relevent question, and he completely ignores them... yet continues to pound out those prohpecies...

Not like anyone reads them anymore either way though...

I agree with wildtimes... hes not a good representitive for Catholics on these forums. I'd actually say he likely pushes people away from the religion, even thnough he tells people it is the ONLY religion.... and assumes everyone will convert eventually

Yep. I agree completely. I starred you, but your commentary bears repeating. colbe is the type of zealot that turns people OFF of listening to or taking seriously anything they have to say. I gain nothing from their contributions. (He is very similar to one of ATS's former members, though. In fact, if they hadn't been tag-teaming at one point, I'd suspect it is the same person. Still could be. I dunno.)

Thanks, Akragon.

reply to post by Misoir

Let me apologize for being so aggressive. It was completely unnecessary and entirely my fault. As for calling you names, why would you necessarily be offended by what I had called you?

I accept your apology.
If you had "only" called me a Modernist, that would be one thing. But you also called me ungodly, ignorant, a liar, and dumped me in with "the problem with society."

Actually, my own spiritual beliefs are akin to pre-Christian gnosticism, particularly the Essenes and Buddhists, who in fact were the schools that Jesus emerged from as the valedictorian. Not "modern." Definitely not the perversion of Christianity that has taken hold among many organized sects.

I actually embrace a "new world order" but NOT the kind that is the Axis of Evil Rockefeller kind. No nono. I hope for peace on earth, goodwill toward ALL men, women, children, and mutual cooperation toward the welfare of everyone (yep, socialism), with no overlords or slave-holders. The kind that Jesus envisioned, that the Essenes HAD. Everyone is cared for, contributes to the best of their ability, and no one needs to suffer harm or poverty or oppression.

I find the Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh (see my sig) to be the best of the "holy men" now. True peacemakers, keeping up with the times.
I've posted this pic before, but here it is again, in case anyone wants to add it to their own uploads.

Hostility is pointless. I get flamed and attacked by Conservatives politically, and by Fundamentalists and Catholics theologically.

I will do my best to explain myself and defend my personal truths in those two arenas, and I will not be made to shut up or back down. I have enough confidence that I am on the right track that i can withstand the assaults, but I am vulnerable to hurt when slandered, condemned, ridiculed, mocked, disregarded, called names or lumped in with any sort of "extremist" pariah group. When that happens, I suspend contact with those who are treating me that way.

Namaste

Here's what the Vatican Insider says as of TODAY:
Pope to axe Irish bishops accused of sex abuse against minors

The enquiry of Vatican representatives on the abuses perpetrated by the clergy has come to an end. The verdict: “Inadequate and unable to contain the number of cases of paedophilia”
GIACOMO GALEAZZI
VATICAN CITY
The Vatican is clamping down on Irish bishops. Rather than a real investigation, the enquiry carried out by the Vatican was more an explanation of the reason why Benedict XVI is about to cut ecclesiastical hierarchies down to zero. “Controls were omitted, bishops and religious superiors were inadequate and incapable of monitoring and containing the spread of extremely serious cases of paedophilia in the clergy. The culprits went unpunished and the victims were treated with indifference.” At the end of the apostolic visit to Ireland, the Holy See prepares a damning report on the Irish crisis concerning paedophile priests.

The island will be struck by a complete change of tactics. New cases will be reported immediately and the Pope will personally intervene to change “the current configuration of the dioceses in order to make diocesan structures better suited to deal with the current mission.” It is time now for all the bishops that covered up the truth regarding paedophile priests (7 have already resigned) to take their leave and the cooperation between dioceses will see a smaller number of better quality priests. The Holy See “feels embarrassed and betrayed by the sinful and criminal acts at the root of this crisis.”

This plague started in 2005 with government committees documenting thousands of child abuse cases at the hands of hundreds of priests starting from the thirties and stretching through the following decades (the last reported case dates back to more or less ten years ago)

That's refreshing news! He is going to fire them. Glad to hear it. Also glad to see the embarrassment, and admitting the betrayal by 'sinful and criminal acts'.
Good!
If I were Catholic, this would make a difference to me...maybe. But maybe it's just a tiny gesture, too.

Anyway, it does explain to me how some Catholics feel.

Victims will be given the utmost priority and culprits will be handed over to the "civil Authorities and to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.”

reply to post by colbe


I got a "server not found" error at the link, but I don't trust the words of any "seer" if they attempt to countermand the words in the Bible. The Bible specifically predicts that such men will arrive on the scene in an attempt to lead God's people astray.

This gent appear to be one of them, based on the snippet you quoted.

I do pray for the Pope - that some day soon, he will arrive at a knowledge of God. I say "soon" because the Pope is not getting any younger, and his time is growing short.

Perhaps some day he will, but it's in God's hands whether that ever happens or not.

Originally posted by colbe

She needs our prayers. She is foolish.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. "

- Matthew 5:22

Something to keep in mind on "Heretics" vs "Orthodoxy":

Nothing more strangely indicates an enormous and silent evil of modern society than the extraordinary use which is made nowadays of the word "orthodox." In former days the heretic was proud of not being a heretic. It was the kingdoms of the world and the police and the judges who were heretics. He was orthodox. He had no pride in having rebelled against them; they had rebelled against him. The armies with their cruel security, the kings with their cold faces, the decorous processes of State, the reasonable processes of law--all these like sheep had gone astray. The man was proud of being orthodox, was proud of being right. If he stood alone in a howling wilderness he was more than a man; he was a church. He was the centre of the universe; it was round him that the stars swung. All the tortures torn out of forgotten hells could not make him admit that he was heretical. But a few modern phrases have made him boast of it. He says, with a conscious laugh, "I suppose I am very heretical," and looks round for applause. The word "heresy" not only means no longer being wrong; it practically means being clear-headed and courageous. The word "orthodoxy" not only no longer means being right; it practically means being wrong. All this can mean one thing, and one thing only. It means that people care less for whether they are philosophically right. For obviously a man ought to confess himself crazy before he confesses himself heretical. The Bohemian, with a red tie, ought to pique himself on his orthodoxy. The dynamiter, laying a bomb, ought to feel that, whatever else he is, at least he is orthodox.

Source Gilbert K. Chesterton, "Heretics", "Introductory Remarks on the Importance of Orthodoxy"

The whole book is a pretty good read.

Originally posted by wildtimes
The Roman Catholic Church has ruined or ended more lives than all wars put together.

Do you not know history?

Actually, from your statement above, it's quite clear that you are the one with a serious deficit when it comes to studying history.

You don't happen to have any proof or sources for that statement, do you?

Eric

Originally posted by Afterthought

Make no mistake. The Catholic Church is THE richest organization in the world.

Can you point to the research that supports this? Would you mind posting here how much money the Catholic Church actually has, what their operating budget is and what their yearly intake is?

Thanks!

Eric