Vatican exposures: Catholic ATS members? What say you?

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by colbe

 

Did you miss the part where I stated that I went to Catholic Sunday school (CCD) until the eleventh grade?
You don't think that confession has changed since Jesus established it?
You don't think that the mafia (mainly Catholic) took advantage of the Catholic Confessional?

I think you have to look at modern day Catholicism. It doesn't compare to what it used to be.

If you want to discuss archaic Catholicism, let's talk about how priests used to be able to marry until it was realized that these men were leaving things to their wives and children. This had to be stopped. THIS is why priests can't marry. THIS way, it was a sealed deal that the church would get everything once they died. Not that priests have much to begin with, but you see how things became corrupted.

It's the true faith Afterthought. I am not going to correct your error
on the discipline of priestly celibacy. If you were Catholic, you were
given a great grace. Return to the faith, the Remnant is Roman
Catholic. It's not hard to do. Go to a priest, go to Confession. He
will help you. Tell him you have been away. You cannot receive Our Lord unless you are free of mortal sin.

Remember, there is Confession Saturday afternoons and especially
now at a special time in the evenings to prepare for Easter. Call your
nearest Parish. Once you make a good Confession...

Go to Holy Mass on Sunday, it's a Commandment.

After the Great Warning, no more division in Christianity. It is soon.
There will be many, many, many conversions, non-Christians too.


love,


colbe

reply to post by colbe

Perfect reply for this anti-Catholic thread. This is the dumbest thing I have
every read.

You know what? It's not meant (EDIT TO CORRECT THAT. At first it said "mean") to be an "anti-Catholic" thread. It's meant to gather information about you Catholics' mindset and reasoning.

You're being defensive right out of the chute again, rather than addressing the question.

Ireland IS beautiful, what the hell has that got to do with ANYTHING?

WHY do you look the other way while the leaders are commiting crimes? Because they are also "sinners" who can be forgiven? That is LAME.
That is dumb.

Here, I'll ask it again, so you don't get confused with only part of your reply being quoted:

Why do Catholics want to be part of an organization that has a proven HISTORY of millions of murders, tortures, theft, perversion, excommunication, etc. WHY do you believe it is a good thing when the leaders are SUCH MONSTERS?

A person can be excommunicated for wanting to marry after they are divorced. Or for any other dumb reason like using birth control, right? But a LEADER who commits serial sodomy is just "transfered"? A leader who is laundering money is just "re-assigned"?

How about EXCOMMUNICATION, at the VERY LEAST. It should also include criminal prosecution including the death penalty for those who have ordered murders or killed people like Pope John Paul, or the other guy mentioned above who is being sued by the family for wrongful death of the wheel-chair bound priest who suddenly "died" 3 days after reporting the horrible activity.

How can you support that? Why do you want any part of it?
If anything, it's meant to be an anti-Insanity thread. There may be Catholics who are unaware of the atrocities, and so they stay (in fact, probably there are millions of them who have no idea of this information). But YOU DO know about it, and still you stay.

With KNOWN SINNERS in charge.
Because some "channeler" gave somebody a prayer for Ireland?

What if that channeler said the St Patrick wants the Irish flock to seize, torture, and then burn at the stake those priests who have done such diabolical things? THEN would you seek justice?

reply to post by colbe

Return to the faith

No thanks.
As for you to tell me to go to confession, I have better things to do. I live my life the best I can and try not to harm anyone mentally or physically.

Praying within a brick and mortar structure was not the way Jesus intended, now was it?

I'll stick to being spiritual. Religion is all about control.
Besides, you have no right to tell anyone what to do or how to do it.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by colbe

 

hi colbe,
well, I appreciate your response but it doesn't answer my questions at all.
Praying for the people of Ireland is not the issue.
HOLDING THE VATICAN LEADERS and PRIESTS accountable is the issue.

You are trying to get everyone to join before it's too late, but your own leaders are criminals, and you don't seem to mind. How is that not "spin"?

Praying for the people of Ireland?

How about getting rid of the perverts, liars, and thieves?
See what I mean? You don't even want to discuss it. I didn't ask what channeler was asking for people to become sheep; I asked why Catholics do not reject the faith on grounds of it's proven horrors and corruption, let alone protest it.

How about finding another subject to be obsessed with "wildtimes."

Our Lord is not pleased with your Catholic bashing thread, it's stupid. There will always be scandals, man has a fallen nature. A little former
Episcopalian, now anti-Christian, you should find something positive
to share. You lump all Catholics and the "consecrated" priests into one
evil group. It's not true. You started this thread to get negative replies.
You'll get them, so what.

The Remnant is Roman Catholic, you are going have to choose for the RCC or not, prophecy and Scripture states this fact.

wt, I included the prophecy, the prayer and the reason, you asked. I just stated it again in my last sentence.

colbe (or any other Catholics lurking):

let me put it another way.

Think of your family. If one of your family members, your cousin, let's say, or your uncle, commited the crimes of sodomy, murder, theft, pedophilia, etc. and you found out about it, what would you do?

Would you protect him from the consequences of these actions? If someone outside the family found out about it, and wanted to prosecute, would you hide him away like a fugitive and continue to promote him as a good guy, even when you KNEW what he had done? That would make you an accomplice, and a criminal as well.

Okay, now think of the RCC. You talk about mortal sin. You claim the big party is any day now.
So....
if Jesus shows up, and says to you:
colbe, you are misguided. I know that in your heart you want others to be saved, but you knew what your priests were doing, and did nothing to stop them. So, "I know you not."

"That evildoer is going to hell, I say. And you are, therefore, also condemned to hell for being an accomplice to this evil, and not rejecting it."

Then what?
You can just repent and all is well? Is that all you and the priest have to do when Jesus arrives? Say, "But ...but... I love you, and I repent."

Jesus made it very clear that many would cry "Lord, Lord"! And he would reject them because they had not LIVED the way he taught. Too late for that day to repent and get in free. Your rosary rearview amulet won't excuse it.

Can you address those hypotheticals please?

reply to post by colbe


So, you have forgiven the priests who have sexually abused children?

By the way, where in the Bible does it state that Catholicism is the chosen religion?

Since you're freely giving some advice, I'll do the same.
If you believe that God created this Earth and everything on and in it, why don't you go out in the woods on a Sunday morning and take a look around you. I think it will do you some good.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by colbe

 

Return to the faith

No thanks.
As for you to tell me to go to confession, I have better things to do. I live my life the best I can and try not to harm anyone mentally or physically.

Praying within a brick and mortar structure was not the way Jesus intended, now was it?

I'll stick to being spiritual. Religion is all about control.
Besides, you have no right to tell anyone what to do or how to do it.

You mocked the faith, Confession to be exact.

Okay, you were once Catholic, I thought so by your post. I shared
how you can return, that's not telling you what to do. And you prove
your objection (many have stated the same). "Religion is all about control" is false.

"No thanks"


The faith doesn't control you, you just said no. Still, please, think about coming home, keep it on your heart....


love,

colbe

reply to post by colbe


Why do you continuously tell people to "return to the faith" and then state that yours is the ONLY true faith?

I think we've seen many threads pointing that the catholic church teaches things Jesus did not...

I mean i admire your zeal, but theres so many holes in the catholic churches belief system... One could only call it "holey"... i just don't understand where that Zealous attitude comes from...

How about finding another subject to be obsessed with "wildtimes."

You still haven't addressed the questions, now you're just being rude to me again. A "little" Episcopalian girl? What are you, colbe, 12? 13 maybe?

Are you not capable of addressing these very real issues with adults?

I'm not obsessed, I'm curious about why you (the Catholics) think you are exempt from condemnation when you follow leaders who are clearly beyond salvation.

I'm obsessed with history, and truth, and justice, and philosophy, and social issues, colbe. Mostly I'm obsessed with HUMAN BEHAVIOR, and THIS behavior to me is unfathomable unless the person doing it has a serious mental disorder or is too mentally challenged or young or sheltered to be aware of it.

I'm asking you to give me an explanation of why you accept your leadership and think you will not be held accountable for not getting rid of them, and prosecuting all the things they HAVE DONE and are STILL DOING.




Oh, and...maybe I'm trying to HELP those lost souls who think they're on the correct bandwagon. Before it's too late.
I have just as much right, and MORE reason, to tell people "flee the faith" as you do to tell people "return to the faith."

But maybe you're an extremist, and not a sensible person who holds others to a moral standard that you yourself profess.

reply to post by wildtimes


He's busy on the Santorum thread telling everyone to stay away from pornography.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Reminds me of the last episode of Harry's Law where the DA known as Choir Boy was always speaking out against prostitution. In the end, it was found out that he frequented prostitutes himself.

reply to post by Afterthought


Really? I wondered what the hell he was referring to the other day when he accused me of condoning porn!!!

He has trouble keeping members straight, I guess. I pointed out to him that I never discussed porn anywhere...now that you have connected that dot for me, I wonder if he'll apologize for slandering me (bearing false witness against me) that I somehow condone porn.

Sheesh.

Okay, any non-fanatic Catholics following along?
Because I really would like to know how you reason around the atrocities and still stay Catholic.
Besides the lame response of "we are all sinners."

Those leaders are evil embodied, corrupt beyond any man-made or Divine law. And doubly so, because they KNOW the laws and break them anyway.

reply to post by wildtimes


Glad I could help you understand his personal attack on you.
Guess that's my good deed for the day!

In all reality, the Catholic Church will have to decay from the inside. The members alone wouldn't be able to bring it down. The priests who are not corrupt would have to leave and start their own church while placing most of their donations towards the victims of abuse. This is the only way it will come crashing down.

reply to post by Afterthought

The members alone wouldn't be able to bring it down.

Oh, I dunno. If they ALL left, and it was JUST the clergy remaining....they might be undone....no??

reply to post by wildtimes


It feels just about like having a foreigner be POTUS. Here's a story worth ignoring:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Deny ignorance???

There are 100 subjects on this board that discuss this issue. It gets tossed in our face when the mere mention of the word Catholic is brought up.

Perhaps there was some complicity on the part of the government that would have nipped this in the bud if prosecutions were made. Yeah, it was sick, twisted and terrible, indefensible actions from a small minority of priiests and CYA from the higher ups.

I feel terrible.

Dig the knife in all you want. I didn't vote for the Pope and I am about as thrilled to have him running the Church as I am about having Obama run the country.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

There are 100 subjects on this board that discuss this issue. It gets tossed in our face when the mere mention of the word Catholic is brought up.

Perhaps there was some complicity on the part of the government that would have nipped this in the bud if prosecutions were made. Yeah, it was sick, twisted and terrible, indefensible actions from a small minority of priiests and CYA from the higher ups.

I feel terrible.

Dig the knife in all you want. I didn't vote for the Pope and I am about as thrilled to have him running the Church as I am about having Obama run the country.

hi, thanks for chiming in.
I wasn't sure if you are laughing AT ME, or you are agreeing. What topic is 100 threads covering?

I'm not trying to dig in a knife. I'm trying to understand. Perhaps you can help. I want to understand why Catholics are not leaving the faith. It's a little different than a citizenship, where if I want to expatriate on grounds of Obama's ancestry or nationality of origin, I have to jump through all sorts of hoops.

You wouldn't have to do that. A Catholic just "stops" going to Catholic services. They don't come a-knockin' on your door (although at one time they did, and charged fines if people missed church) like the Mormons to "gather you back" to the faith if you leave it.

So...if you feel terrible about it, why not leave? Why stay?
Thanks again.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Afterthought

 

The members alone wouldn't be able to bring it down.

Oh, I dunno. If they ALL left, and it was JUST the clergy remaining....they might be undone....no??

It would be nice and it would work, but I don't ever see it happening. Like I said, too many people are too brainwashed or they think sexual abuse can't happen in their congregation. Many people are so devoted to the church that they wouldn't know what to do if they left. They don't understand that they don't need clergymen in order to talk to their God. If more people began leading their own lives and practicing religion as they saw fit, there wouldn't be such problems. All anyone really has to do is find a quiet place to practice whatever they wish. Nobody really needs anyone to read the Bible to them as they do in church. Nobody has to go to a Confessional once a week or once a month. They've just been taught that this is the way their God wants it and not to stray from this. Instead of questioning it, they blindly follow. This is not the way and I wish more people would wake up.

reply to post by wildtimes


If you do an ATS search on the words Catholic priest sex abuse scandal you get 100 subjects come up. Sorry, I didn't make that clear.

Why not leave? I believe the Catholic Church has the True Presence and no other church does. I like my parish and my priests. I would never stop believe the teachings of the Church because of the current corruption.

Thank you for being willing to help. I just threw my post down without reading any, but the opening post so take no offense. I said I feel terrible, but it's nothing compared to what the molested have to endure.

Peace.

reply to post by Afterthought

They don't understand that they don't need clergymen in order to talk to their God.

Yeah. That.

Personally, I don't believe in hell anyway, and I know the church has thrown out that dogma to some degree (at least according to the high priest or cardinal or monsignor at the Vatican who Bill Maher spoke to in Religulous)...

Even Jesus said "go into you room and pray", and "look within" and "disregard the priests"....

I am, at this point, agnostic leaning toward gnostic/Essene thinking....and hell is not part of that picture. I believe we all are part of the Divine, and that Jesus' words (NOT THE BIBLE'S) are very important lessons. It's a private journey, and after many lifetimes, we all get to rest with the Divine Source.

I just really want to be able to wrap my head around the Catholic mindset. From a human behavior point of view.
Thanks for participating!

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

Why not leave? I believe the Catholic Church has the True Presence and no other church does. I like my parish and my priests. I would never stop believe the teachings of the Church because of the current corruption.

Thank you for being willing to help. I just threw my post down without reading any, but the opening post so take no offense. I said I feel terrible, but it's nothing compared to what the molested have to endure.

I wasn't offended, you are the first practicing Catholic to pitch in besides colbe who's a bit of an extreme example (I think).

You can still believe the teachings if you walk away....it's the RULES that keep you there. Is that correct? That you feel that the Eucharist and confession and the whatevers---sorry, sacraments, I think it is--- are more significant than the corruption?

(EDIT TO CLARIFY) Have you taken any action at your own church to protest the atrocities done in other parishes?

Does your priest address it? Does your whole parish feel bad about it? Do you think those creeps should be excommunicated and/or prosecuted?

How much power do you have as a member to speak out about it?

reply to post by wildtimes


Religion is always going to be a touchy topic. People love to defend theirs and point at the other religion as being corrupt. I don't know how anyone can say that their religion is the "chosen" one. Chosen for what is what I'd like to know.

I really don't care what people practice as long as they don't use it to commit horrible acts.
These people will hide behind their religion and think it'll protect them. In some cases, it will if they're high enough. In the end, everything will catch up to them. I'm not sure if I believe in hell or not, but I don't believe that people who don't go to church are the ones who are sent here.

My sister and I were both brought up Catholic and we have both left the church. I don't claim any religion, while she and her husband are Rastafarian. My parents have also left the church. People just have to live their lives as they see fit and try to do unto others as you would like them to do unto you. Frankly, I'd like to see some of these priests put in prison where they will experience their own hell on Earth. Even if you don't believe in hell, there's always karma.