Vatican exposures: Catholic ATS members? What say you?

Vatican begs forgiveness of Ireland abuse victims

religion.blogs.cnn.com...

(CNN) - The Vatican begged forgiveness of Irish victims from child sexual abuse by priests as it released a major report into the problem Tuesday, but victims responded with anger and disbelief at the report's finding that new safeguards are working.

"With a great sense of pain and shame, it must be acknowledged that within the Christian community, innocent young people were abused by clerics," a high-level Catholic Church committee found.

"Those who should have exercised vigilance often failed to do so effectively," it found.

"For these faults, forgiveness must once more be asked: from God and from the victims!" the commission of top church leaders said.

The head of the Catholic Church in Ireland, Cardinal Sean Brady, echoed those words Tuesday.

"In expressing true sorrow and regret, we make our own the heartfelt plea for forgiveness from the victims, and from God, for these terrible crimes and sins," he said.

But Jon McCourt, an activist for survivors of abuse, said the report did not go nearly far enough.

Well, I suppose it's a start.
They "apologize" ....and then what?

I really don't understand, really and truly, how ANYONE can still want to be part of this abomination of a "religious order."
I don't get how people aren't fleeing the RCC like Germans would flee Hitler's regime.

The Roman Catholic Church has ruined or ended more lives than all wars put together.
Can someone please explain to me, if you are Catholic, WHY do you not leave the church of horrors? Do you not know history?

And also, WHY is the Vatican and its army of monsters not held accountable at a global level, like Hitler was?

Seriously?
Oh, wait. Because the RCC is part of the cabal....funding lots of ongoing atrocities, still able to use fear and ignorance to keep their huge crowds in line.

Of ALL the choices for a religion, this one seems to me the absolute worst of the poisons. If you've picked yours as Catholocism, what made you do that? Or who? And if you know the history of the Church, how can you so proudly admit you follow it? Do you ever feel akin to neo-Nazis? That's kind of how I see it.

I know this will offend some Catholics, but honestly I just wonder about the reasons for modern people to engage in it.

here's a response from the SNAP people:

Vatican recommends Irish church changes, SNAP responds
www.snapnetwork.org...

Similarly, we discount the pledge to “reorganise Ireland’s ecclesiastical tribunals – an internal canon justice system – so that outstanding cases could be dealt with more quickly.” Timid, self-serving Catholic officials – who put their own reputations above the safety of their flock – prevent cases from being dealt with quickly. It’s not a problem of structure. It’s a problem of personnel. The church hierarchy remains filled with career-climbing bureaucrats instead of courageous and compassionate men who are willing to “buck the system” and thwart their advancement so that kids can be safer, predators can be jailed, and complicit colleagues can be ousted.

And that’s because virtually no church employee who ignores, minimizes, conceals or enables horrific child sex crimes is ever defrocked, demoted, disciplined or even denounced by his church colleagues or supervisors. Until that changes, nothing will really change.

Catholics? Regular church-going members?
What is YOUR response? No takers?

Aw, come on guys, help me understand what you are thinking, please. The folks on ATS are not monsters. I believe you all mean well, so, how can you defend this?

Okay then, I'll just keep looking around and posting what I find. Deny ignorance.

SNAP responds to promotion of Fr. Thomas Smolich

POSTED BY BARBARA DORRIS ON MARCH 20, 2012 · FLAG
Whenever church officials are promoted, we always hope for the best. We hope that church officials will bring in an outsider who has not been involved in an institution that has been marred by cover-ups, or that a priest is promoted instead of a monsignor or fellow bishop. Today, when a Jesuit priest Fr. Thomas Smolich was tapped to head the Conference of Major Superiors of Men, church officials did exactly the opposite of what we hope for. They elevated a man with a horrific record on child sex abuse and who has been allegedly involved in many cover ups.

Smolich, who has worked as President of the Jesuit Conference of the United States since 2006, has a history rife with excusals of predator priests. In 2002, Smolich was working as the Provincial for the California province of the Jesuits. When Angel Crisostomo Mariano was sued in civil court for abusing a mentally disabled man, Smolich denied knowing much about Mariano at all, despite the fact that, at that point, Smolich had been roommates with Mariano for two years.

Beyond living with credibly accused predator priests, Smolich has housed other convicted and accused predators at the Sacred Heart Center in Los Gatos, CA where these predators have been able to mix with vulnerable adults, in some cases abusing them. Fr. James Chevedden was wheelchair-bound and living at Sacred Heart when he was abused by serial predator Br. Charles Leonard Connor (www.mercurynews.com...).

Tragically, Fr. Chevedden died by suicide or a staged suicide three years after reporting the abuse, and the Jesuits later settled with Chevedden’s surviving family in a wrongful death suit.

www.catholicnews.com...
Here's what the Catholic News Service says about it:
Despite past shortcomings, Irish church is fighting abuse, Vatican says

By Carol Glatz
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- A Vatican-appointed investigation of the church in Ireland recognized serious shortcomings in the handling of accusations of the sexual abuse of minors, yet found that bishops, clergy and lay faithful are doing an "excellent" job in creating safe environments for children today.

The investigators found that Irish bishops need to update their child protection guidelines, establish "more consistent admission criteria" for seminarians, and formulate policies on how best to deal with clergy and religious accused of abuse.

In a summary of findings from the probe, formally known as an apostolic visitation, the investigators also warned of a "fairly widespread" tendency among priests, religious and laity to hold unspecified unorthodox views.

"This serious situation requires particular attention, directed principally toward improved theological formation," the visitors found, stressing that dissent from the church's teaching authority would only hinder its renewal.

Wait. What? "In a summary of findings from the probe, formally known as an apostolic visitation, the investigators also warned of a "fairly widespread" tendency among priests, religious and laity to hold unspecified unorthodox views. "

What are unspecified unorthodox views?
Like, maybe, birth control? Pedophilia being okay? Or sex of any kind? Allowing homosexuals in the door? Not kicking out divorced people? Leaving out the doctrine of Hell?

Hmmm. Catholics, does YOUR priest or clergy hold "unorthodox views"? What are they?

The Catholic Church has actively covered up and protected child abusers in their ranks, they should be prosecuted for being the criminal organization that they are. Simple as that.

The abuse victims' support group One in Four criticized the report, insisting that "the Vatican is still not accepting responsibility for its role in creating the culture of purposeful cover-ups of the sexual abuse of children."

Executive Director Maeve Lewis said that "while we welcome the findings of the visitation that the Irish church now has good child protection practices in place, we feel it is a lost opportunity to address the role played by the Vatican in perpetuating the policy of protecting abusive priests at the expense of children."

She said she also welcomed "the recommendation that the bishops and religious superiors should devote much time to listening to survivors and attending to their needs.

"We have had grotesque situations where senior churchmen meet with survivors, assure them of their remorse for what happened while at the same time are instructing their legal teams to file full defenses in relation to civil compensations suits. This only compounds the pain and hurt of survivors. It brings into question the authenticity of the church's repentance," Lewis said.

Hmmm.....well, I at least, am finding this interesting.
The above is from the same article as the last post.

reply to post by boncho


I agree.
Still, I'm wondering what Catholic members of ATS think about it. What should be done, if anything, and why they are still members.
Thanks for responding though. I'm happy to talk about them if ya want...and maybe one or two of 'em will have the brass to stand up and speak on behalf of their organization.

Maybe I should change the thread's title to "Catholics? What say you?"


www.catholicnews.com...

Vatican announces investigations into document leaks

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI has established a commission to investigate a series of leaks of letters exchanged among Vatican officials and between the officials and the pope himself.

Archbishop Angelo Becciu, Vatican substitute secretary of state, said March 16 that the papal commission would try "to shed light on the whole affair," while a Vatican tribunal would look into taking legal action against those who gave the documents to reporters, and the Vatican Secretariat of State would carry out an administrative review of every Vatican office.

While some of the leaked letters are gossipy, others include allegations of serious financial misconduct.

Hmm again. "Serious financial misconduct", "gossip", and "document leaks" to reporters.

Now, my next question is.....
another internal investigation? Shouldn't there be an external, neutral organization doing these "investigations"? Seems to me. Are they more interested in finding out who's spilling the beans or trying to cover up the mess?

I believe the Irish victims were heard saying "May God have mercy on you, because we don't"

reply to post by wildtimes


If the Vatican was truly sorry, they would change their rules so priests could marry.

For the record, I'm not a practicing Catholic and don't claim any religion. I did go to Sunday School until eleventh grade though, which was all about greed. When I lived in a certain state, I was supposed to have been confirmed in the fourth grade, but moved to another state in the middle of the year. In this new state, I couldn't get confirmed until the eleventh grade. Even as young as I was, I could clearly see this was a bid for funds. Truly pathetic.

They're also saying recently that repairs to St Patrick's Cathedral are going to cost $175 million.

Who's going to cough that up? The parish? I wonder if they'll give special "dispensation" to any tradesmen who are Catholics, like they used to do. "If you do this work, you get x number of sins wiped clean off your record."

Do they still do that? That was pretty typical at least in Britain when they owned most of the land and were business-men.
Do they still offer exorcisms and prayer sessions in exchange for money? That was common back in the 17th century at least....

reply to post by wildtimes


Make no mistake. The Catholic Church is THE richest organization in the world.
Vatican City is the only place in the world where the currency is backed by gold that actually exists.
I'm sure $175 mil is a drop in the hat for them since it is considered an investment. They won't have any problems getting donations and charitable funds from the members who go to St. Patrick's.

reply to post by Afterthought

Make no mistake. The Catholic Church is THE richest organization in the world.

Oh, I'm well aware of that. Also arguably the most CORRUPT. I just don't get why their "scandals" aren't subject to criminal investigation and prosecution..

Why do their members ignore this info?

It's not that different from being an employee at a large organization (like a major hotel chain, or a bank, or any other "business"), or a customer of same, and finding out the place is run by tyrants who don't give a crap about anything BUT money. Do you stay and work there anyway? Do you expose the fraud and crime? Do you stop shopping there?

Why don't Catholics leave? They aren't "paid" to be members, so it can't be the "I have to work, so I'll ignore the wrongdoing because I need the paycheck" argument.

I have quit perfectly good jobs with promising futures when I found out the corruption and lack of morals at the top. I have also refused to shop at places that promote things I think are wrong.

I just can't imagine going along with anything willingly that smells so bad and is so clearly WRONG.

reply to post by wildtimes


Plenty have left, but others are devout and view leaving the church as turning their backs on God. Just as one church has a sex scandal, there are those that haven't. The members of these churches see the crimes going on at other churches and simply believe that it's not possible for the same thing to happen at theirs. They are blind followers. Maybe some of these members have found it in their hearts to forgive, which is too bad since it often gives the criminals a free ride.

Most of the times in churches, they'll simply move the priests around so they aren't in one spot for too long. I see this as irresponsible, but I'm sure it translates for some as the best thing to do.

reply to post by Afterthought

Plenty have left, but others are devout and view leaving the church as turning their backs on God.

Yep; I understand that, too.

But of those who want to stay for "God", why don't they protest and demand justice? Why don't they want to throw out the bad guys? Why do they not even want to discuss it??

God "kissed" Ireland, Ireland is very, very beautiful.

The faith, so strong through the centuries. Everyone has heard of the best seller "How Ireland Saved Civilization."

In response to your question...

It's the end of times now, Jesus asks, will there be any faith when I return? Satan attacks, he only has a short time, it's the end of the 6th day. Satan knows who the true faith is so we pray for all the people of Ireland.

I'll share a short prayer given by Ireland's patron saint on his feast day.
An excerpt, taken from a prophetic message to Bronia, St. Patrick offered this prayer.

3/17/12

Message from Saint Patrick to the Polish Prophet on 17th March 2012. Lady Immaculate Church, Surbiton, England.

Saint Patrick:

....Bronia you asked Me, in the Holy Mass to pray for Ireland - we have been praying for the conversion of all Irishmen, for they distanced themselves from the Faith of their Fathers, and so put God the Almighty in second place, endangering their souls.

They persecute even their Prophets and Visionaries, through whom God calls them to come back to the Faith. And so they must come, before it is too late, for the Sovereign God, Judge of all people of the world is coming to separate goats from sheep, to make a better world for His true Children.

As the Day of Reckoning IS UPON HUMANITY, I beg My countrymen to convert and live in Jesus Christ. Pray and do penance, because Our Lord desires to save every Irishman."

Bronia:'What Prayer must we say, so that all Irishmen be saved?'

Saint Patrick:"Bronia, Our Lord will give us to pray together.".....


Jesus:"My dearest Jesus, Saviour Jesus Christ, save in Your Love and Mercy all Irishmen wherever they may be, and the Irish Land."


join Yahoo Groups - Seers 2

groups.yahoo.com...

reply to post by wildtimes


They don't do this because the majority are too brainwashed. In order for a successful protest to happen, the entire congregation would have to revolt. Many times than not, people simply don't want to rock the boat. They are afraid of being blacklisted and looked at as trouble makers.

I wouldn't be surprised if some have tried to get things changed, but as word got around, a more powerful and popular member took them aside and gave them a good talking to about why their idea was bad. Frankly, most of the ones who want to rise up and change things are outnumbered by those who don't.

Catholics are people who love tradition. It's as though they are allergic to change. Not to mention the whole confessional thing. Catholics are taught that you can sin as long as you confess and do your punishment. I wouldn't doubt if there are plenty of criminals and deviants within the members who are happy just going with the flow. Why upset something if it works well for you?

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by wildtimes

 

They don't do this because the majority are too brainwashed. In order for a successful protest to happen, the entire congregation would have to revolt. Many times than not, people simply don't want to rock the boat. They are afraid of being blacklisted and looked at as trouble makers.

I wouldn't be surprised if some have tried to get things changed, but as word got around, a more powerful and popular member took them aside and gave them a good talking to about why their idea was bad. Frankly, most of the ones who want to rise up and change things are outnumbered by those who don't.

Catholics are people who love tradition. It's as though they are allergic to change. Not to mention the whole confessional thing. Catholics are taught that you can sin as long as you confess and do your punishment. I wouldn't doubt if there are plenty of criminals and deviants within the members who are happy just going with the flow. Why upset something if it works well for you?

Perfect reply for this anti-Catholic thread. This is the dumbest thing I have
every read. Daaaah, confession saves your soul. Everyone is a sinner, so how does God's grace return to a person's soul after they commit a mortal sin? Please explain. I'll share...

Jesus established Confession, that's how (John 20:23).

reply to post by colbe


Did you miss the part where I stated that I went to Catholic Sunday school (CCD) until the eleventh grade?
You don't think that confession has changed since Jesus established it?
You don't think that the mafia (mainly Catholic) took advantage of the Catholic Confessional?

I think you have to look at modern day Catholicism. It doesn't compare to what it used to be.

If you want to discuss archaic Catholicism, let's talk about how priests used to be able to marry until it was realized that these men were leaving things to their wives and children. This had to be stopped. THIS is why priests can't marry. THIS way, it was a sealed deal that the church would get everything once they died. Not that priests have much to begin with, but you see how things became corrupted.

reply to post by colbe


hi colbe,
well, I appreciate your response but it doesn't answer my questions at all.
Praying for the people of Ireland is not the issue.
HOLDING THE VATICAN LEADERS and PRIESTS accountable is the issue.

You are trying to get everyone to join before it's too late, but your own leaders are criminals, and you don't seem to mind. How is that not "spin"?

Praying for the people of Ireland?

How about getting rid of the perverts, liars, and thieves?
See what I mean? You don't even want to discuss it. I didn't ask what channeler was asking for people to become sheep; I asked why Catholics do not reject the faith on grounds of it's proven horrors and corruption, let alone protest it.