Vegetarians vs. meat-eaters: Standoff is over

reply to post by jonnywhite


Sorry Jonny, don't agree - with any of that. You don't have to be a genius to work out a well balanced veggie diet. Having said that, a lazy, typically western veggie diet is no different to a lazy, typically western meat eating diet.
It's no coincidence that the worlds largest meat eating and dairy consuming countries have the highest obesity rates and all the associated diseases.

I do however agree with your comment about the milk. No matter how they hard-sell milk, it's calcium content after pasteurization is depleted or rendered much less absorbable to the human body. In fact, if you were to get an authoritative list of the top calcium containing foods, I'm sure you'll see milk is about 12th, maybe 18th or something down the list. I'll have to check, but I think Kelp is the highest, even soy is higher than milk (dairy).

Add to that, one of the biggest unauthorized medicating programs in humans is done through dairy, especially milk. I ain't saying don't eat/drink it, that's your prerogative, just giving you some alternative info that you won't see in the MSM.

reply to post by scorpiosin


Quite right scorp, the body has to convert it first.

Where do you veggies on here stand on krill as a source of omega 3?

Originally posted by maestromason
reply to post by artistpoet

 

...and to expound on what you are saying....people grow up on one diet and as adults change them and who knows what the change in diet is doing or has already done?

I like yourself grew up a tall stick but when I left my mother's house and her kitchen along with very well-balanced and wholesome feedings I blew up like a balloon! Now I am no longer the stick at 6' 2 1/2" @ 275lbs(muscular).

As one ages your metabolism slow down, the body's ability to break down waste becomes less efficient hence the need for supplements and vitamins, cellular structure decays, bone mass decreases and susceptibility to ailments increases, mental acuity lessens, ect and strictly eating vegetables is not going to fix all of this....if anything it would harm the elderly decaying body.


The only thing that can rejuvenate all of this would be either the Philosopher's Stone or a time machine and I have yet to know of anyone who has discovered either one of them.


Cells cycle and die for a reason.

edit on 21-3-2012 by maestromason because: (no reason given)

I am not a Vegan or a vegetarian my diet is fish vegetables grains fruits etc
I do know many people who also have this diet and all are fit and well and vary in age
But I do understand what you are saying - our bodys slow down in a way as we get older.
A balanced diet goes a long way as your Mom's cooking shows

As for the Philosophers stone or time machine let me know if you find them - Am willing to give them a whirl

reply to post by Ericthenewbie


Hi Eric

I'm guilty I'm afraid of not actually reading the exact article, I've heard it all before, besides, without knowing who funded this and other so called research papers, you can't rule out bias or some agenda. For instance, in the UK last year, the tabloids were running stories that sugar isn't as bad for you as first claimed- it was funded by sugar producing/importing companies.

For me, the choice not to eat meat was ethical, I never even considered thinking about the health side of it until it was double figures in terms of non-meat.
I think the gist of the op was red meat, which includes pork and lamb etc. I did glance at a report last month (could be the same one) that included processed meats in general.

reply to post by barmyfluid


Thanks for the reply ..I wasn't even going to touch base on the source of who funded this article/study as I know from personal experience that is a key component as to who's favor the argument will be swayed towards. It's actually funny to see how many people neglect to make that observation before being manipulated by the results.

You mentioned the ethical component being the basis for your decision to be vegetarian, can I ask for more detail behind that decision?

I think for any study of "vegetarian versus meat-eaters" to be genuine it must take into account an equal starting point such as some of the questions I mentioned in my earlier post. Only because I believe people neglect to consider the sources of the comparison. I'm sure a vegetarian diet consuming GMO/pesticide sprayed based crops will have some adverse affects on their health that they neglect to mention in their stance, no different than a meat eater consuming red or white meat injected with hormones etc has with their stance.

I believe that in order for a comparison/study to be truly authentic on the topic, it would need to be a three tiered comparison/study done on organic vegetables/grains versus organic white meat and organic red meat funded/completed by a neutral source to have any value. Anything less in my mind amounts to just a guess, no?

reply to post by mindpurge

In a survival situation, you will die if you do not consume animal meat... we are predators

We are not in a survival situation but either way I have a friend that lives off the land and his own produced products.. He is alive and healthy..

reply to post by torqpoc

So because you found a table in a biology book which pushes forward your agenda, you think it's right to dictate to people whether they should eat meat or not, right?

What makes you think I am dictating. I am simply presenting the evidence. It is up to you what you do with that evidence...

reply to post by torqpoc

You do realise that without the protein from meat man wouldn't have evolved into what he is now, don't you?

Is that an opinion or have you got any science to back it up. I have managed to evolve perfectly well without eating meat..

reply to post by Ericthenewbie


You're welcome.

Absolutely. The food chain, be it animal or plant based, is unfortunately corrupted from pollutants and dodgy production methods where ever you look. You talk to people these days and to most, the idea of a totally organic system, which itself was once the conventional method, is a new, quirky, tree hugging phenomenon. Those that do understand the principles behind it are invariably out priced. Strange that the purest food is more expensive than the mass produced, must be the extra ingredients. To be fair, I do have a slight understanding of the economics of why it is more expensive, but it need not be that way.
Old prince Charlie is a strong advocate of the organic movement and I find it hard to believe that the elites of this world would insist on a side order of hormones, pesticides and GMO.

Ethics. Not a one sentence answer I'm afraid for me and I won't be able to cover my whole standpoint here; But I'll give you an example. I do not eat eggs because of the appalling condition and treatment of the chickens and the actual practices involved. Being a human, I see it my duty to be humane. However, if I had my own chickens, I'd eat the eggs. They are after all just part of the birds menstrual cycle - unfertilized.
Having said that, if I had cows, I wouldn't eat them unless it was life or death, for me that is.
I could go on about the hypocrisy when considering the idea of eating pooch as abhorrent but the idea of porky as ok, but another time possibly.
Roadkill, who knows, maybe.

Originally posted by epsilon69
reply to post by purplemer

 

Do you believe eating meat and animal fats make you fat and cause heart disease? Do you believe heart disease can be avoided by eating a diet consisting of whole grains and vegetables?

I'm interested in your views on these questions. I'd like to pick your brain a bit.

I dont really know to be far. I do know that heart disease in the UK is a very modern illness. You dont have to go back that far and heart disease was almost non existent.

reply to post by purplemer



If providing evidence is your sole motive as you indicated for making this thread, can you provide more than one source and also address the questions I have asked in my previous posts? I would think that if that truly is your only motive you wouldn't have any problems completing that task and doing a thorough investigation of the topic to ensure the accuracy of the evidence?

reply to post by CharlesMartel

Have you figured out that I am not impressed with people telling me how to live?

I am not telling you how to live. I am presenting information for a discussion. May I ask were you got your cultural values on how to live if not from other people. The food you eat, the things you do, your education all telling you how to live. Yet you take umbrance to me presenting the facts on something...

Originally posted by Vespa51
reply to post by purplemer

 

I wonder if it is meat that is the problem or the chemicals in meat? There are too many chemicals consumed by as that were unaware of. They must have a detrimental effect.

The chemicals in meat do not help. It has a lot of growth hormones and antibiotics. Even the methods of cooking meat create PAHs which are known to cause cancer...

reply to post by Xadaz

Vegetables are not a complete source of protein. Good luck with your losing muscle gains for 2012 and beyond.

Look at a horse does it lack in muscular definition in anyway...?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

The main issue here is suffering. I like eating meat, I want to continue eating meat, but I don't want the animals I eat to have suffered a great deal before being killed.

I agree with you I dont like to see life suffering for no need. I have in the past killed animals myself and it is always messy..

reply to post by Majiq1


If you think there are inaccuracies point them out. Dont just say they exist and stop there...

reply to post by AwakeinNM

I eat red meat and I am wearing a cotton D-ring belt. Oh, the irony.

lol its a messed up world sometimes...

reply to post by barmyfluid


First off; I respect the fact that you are willing to discuss this topic openly and honestly and I respect the fact that you have a personal belief that you live by, whether or not I agree with it is irrelevant.

As you mentioned Ethics being a big part of your decision for this belief, can you provide your thoughts/opinions on the articles I previously posted;

Michigan State University researchers have determined plants feel pain;

www.bbspot.com...

Here is an article from the New York Times in 2009 by Natalie Angier that sheds some light on the intelligence aspect;

www.nytimes.com...:%20brussel%20sprouts%20like%20to%20live,%20too&st=cse

Also this article about Plants 'can think and remember'
By Victoria Gill Science reporter, BBC News;

www.bbc.co.uk...


I just want to ensure I understand your conclusions appropriately.

reply to post by purplemer

Quinoa. Contains the 9 amino acids required to make a complete protein. Don't forget, protein is made up of individual amino acids, and that applies to beef. Protein is not an issue if done properly, there are plenty of veggie sources.

Sorry, I was replying to someone that you had also replied to. The comment about the protein etc.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

It is just incorrect to say our bodies are developed to be vegetarian. It is just down right false and ignorant.

Could you please explain to me why it is down right false and ignorant and what I am lacking in my body that you get in yours..