Vegetarians vs. meat-eaters: Standoff is over

reply to post by purplemer


Hmm... I find it interesting that you have neglected to respond to my questions yet continue to "dictate" your opinions/beliefs to others...why is that ?

reply to post by purplemer


I call bull-!@*# .
Humans don't have claws? Have you seen my fingernails?
No sharp pointed front teeth? What are K-9s then?
And we have many sharp teeth some with little points as well.

The fact is like a Lion i can use my teeth and fingernails to rip out another humans throat.
And posting a photo with no links or your opinion is just lazy and/or condescending.

Oh never mind i see you're the one that started the post. I apologize. Did not realize that.

reply to post by milkyway12

Animals are a food supply. Not a human being.

I am not sure I would agree with that statement and I think the cannibalistic tribes of the world may well agree with me along with all the top predators and the diseases that plague mankind.

Originally posted by Ericthenewbie
reply to post by purplemer

 

If providing evidence is your sole motive as you indicated for making this thread, can you provide more than one source and also address the questions I have asked in my previous posts? I would think that if that truly is your only motive you wouldn't have any problems completing that task and doing a thorough investigation of the topic to ensure the accuracy of the evidence?

Yes I could provide more evidence. There have been other studies done. However I dont really want to sit here trawling through the internet finding evidence for you I have 40 posts to reply too...

If you are intrested please you the google search engine and have a look for evidence. It is not my thread the thread is made up in totality from all of us.

reply to post by Ericthenewbie


In resepct to your comments on ethics and the fact plants may have feeling too. I am sure they have.. I try to kill as little as possible even plants. However I do grow a lot of vegetables and I do kill them.

I guess it is a personally issue. I rightly or wrongly so can empathise with animals easier than plants.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is a link to a thread I created awhile back, while "considering" my moral dilemna about eating meat. It's a quick read, and really has some "insightful" points that may add to this conversation. The last page contains, what turned out for myself anyways, to be a "life changing" Truth about the "cycle of life"

It's a study that points out that Plants have a "will to live" too, that was a profound thought for me actually. They adapt, reproduce, attract, wilt, thrive.......At the end of the day I have decided for myself that's it's more about being thoughtful and greatful to all life that gives us life.

We shouldn't be disrespectful to animals, plants and the earth in our "natural" instinct to survive, humans need to be the "grown-ups" in this way, lol, although it could be argued human's are like "teenagers" compared to dolphins.....

reply to post by Ericthenewbie


I've had the "vegetable murderer" thing hurled in my direction by a few knuckle draggers in the past. And it doesn't really make sense to me in the fact that growing plants, nurturing them, then harvesting them doesn't equate to cruelty to animals within our current understanding of sentience. One could argue that protons and neutrons are intelligent. Perhaps we should ask?
Sure, all life is sacred. I get pretty annoyed with myself if I've taken my eye off the ball and let one of my plants die, maybe an apology to them would suffice in future or at least some form of open dialogue. But being part of the food chain and having problems with it's ethics around animals doesn't exclude me from the food chain, barring exclusive photosynthesis. Some argue about our evolution and concurrent meat consumption and whether we're supposed to or not, but I've yet to come across anything even hinting at the suggestion that humans aren't meant to eat plant based foods.

What about all the bugs I kill when I drive? We haven't had that one yet. Ethics are formed by opinions, experiences, attitudes etc etc. This isn't Nirvana, so ones ethics might not be perfect, but to use one argument like the "plants have feelings" one to challenge ones perspective on the animal issues is often used by people that have given up trying to defend man's disgusting treatment of animals,and in a way I think sometimes to make themselves feel better. Some people see us as targets as well for assuming that we are deliberately putting ourselves on a pedestal with a holier than though attitude - and I know some people do come across like that - I prefer not to judge. I'd rather debate. (then judge).

We are in danger of going off topic in a way though, if we haven't already. Maybe another thread and the subject of meat eating and the fact that enough grain is fed to US cattle - (repeating myself, I know) - just so people can enjoy a burger that they don't need, with said grain being enough to feed the world'as starving? Maybe a counter argument to that would be from some quarters - selfish do-gooders, the Earth needs all those dead bodies. Sooooorrrrryyy for that.

Oh, Eric, that first link you provided is typical of the anti-veggie sort of journalism I come to expect.
Got to go now mate. Been off work studying all day, as well as posting on here - not good.

reply to post by purplemer



Even though I can appreciate you may have multiple things on the go at one time... supplying one source as a basis for your bold statement that the "vegetarian versus meat-eater stand off is over" and then dictating to others your personal beliefs/opinions on the topic without further information appears to have a clear bias in your favor/agenda. Although I shouldn't have to search Google to finish the research you neglected to complete in your initial post, I was able to provide scientific counter points to your statement and yet still I maintain an open mind to hearing the pros and cons from both sides of the equation based on factual information. I may or may not agree with your opinions or beliefs but I can with certainty disagree with your tactics in the shameless promotion of your own belief/opinions/agenda...after all isn't this site about denying ignorance?

70 year old vegan women looks 30 ______beforeitsnews/story/1833/649/Ageless_Woman_70-Year_Old_Vegetarian_Looks_30.html

I thought this song would be perfect for this battle (topic).
Enjoy Immortal Technique

reply to post by dkf89


Nice post.
I cannot help though that it seems like your advertising one of those adverts on ats with that wrinkle old woman

Originally posted by hellzdoms
reply to post by dkf89

 

that wrinkle old woman

Oh! You mean the meat eater
Hold fire twas but jest

Originally posted by purplemer

Until recently, due to the lack of quality statistical studies, too great of a role in the great debate between vegetarians and meat eaters was played by a rhetorical component. A large-scale study involving 120,000 people showed that consumption of red meat significantly reduces life expectancy. The position of v

www.trueactivist.com...

Studies like this are well overdue. It has long been the common consensus among vegetarians that its more healthy not to eat meat but evidence was scant.

Eating meat in my opinion is an act of bullying against animals. It is puts a big strain on our biosphere. We can feed a lot more people with less land on vegetables...

Maybe one day you will get labels on meat products like you do on cigarettes... Warning may cause cancer..

The problem with this study is that the authors make no discernment between people who eat "pink slime" grade red meat, and organic, good quality meat.

Regardless of this study, I will continue to eat my red meat at the same frequency I already do (one or twice a week) because it's just so damn tasty.

Vitamin B-12 deficiency Hoax www.rawfoodexplained.com...

This study, as near as I can tell is nonsense. No account for blood type first of all, O's on a vegan diet age rapidly among other issues. no account for DNA, no account for the nearly 5000 possibly active bacteria and viruses for each person. And of course the idea of "premature" death is the great all time falsehood - there is no such thing at all (for another thread...).

If you are vegan and it works for you, so what? Good for you, why is veganism associated with zealotry? Why do nearly all vegans have to convince non vegans that the meat is the devil? Why do nearly all vegans feel that if they don't convert everyone else to their diet the world will fall apart?

Why do Americans politicize FOOD?!!!!!!!!!! It is FOOD!!! Only in America, with the majority of the people on the planet - including the US, desperate for food on a daily basis can WHAT you eat be akin to a religious belief, where war like attitudes is not only accepted it is fostered among the believers (this nearly always comes from the non-meat eating people). And only in America can people demand that others eat like them, and feel wholly righteous in doing so!

Following trauma, animal protein and high fat are good. In the growth phase of a child, a mixed bag of protein, and fewer carbs are important. When cleansing, less protein, more vegs. Some days you need this, some days you need that, to adhere to some idiotic doctrine of "veganism is closer to godliness" is just beyond foolish. Of course the same goes for meat folks, but the only "meat is god" folks I have ever run into are industry people and I can see where they are coming from.

Lighten up people, avoid processed non-food, eat what works for you when it works for you and be open to changing when it doesn't and stop the endless "my way of the highway" nonsense. I had a friend who was died hard vegan zealot. I said to her, you're fat and tired and have gray hair because you don't eat meat - you're an O blood type and you are killing yourself. She switched, lost twenty pounds in three weeks, and the world didn't collapse. I swear it didn't collapse.

reply to post by barmyfluid


To be clear I am not a knuckle dragger and by starting off your post by implying that I am by using a scientific fact that plants do feel pain only shows that although you say you don't judge in actuality you do.
Regardless, I'm not against anyone who decides to live a vegetarian lifestyle all the power to them if that makes them happy...that being said I do take offense to perpetuating false or cherry picked information to instill their beliefs/opinions onto someone else who chooses not to live that lifestyle. My point all along has been to use factual information/comparisons in the debate as to which lifestyle is healthier if indeed one can surpass the other. Just because you can't wrap your head around a scientific fact doesn't make it a non valid fact. It just means you can't grasp the concept...similar to when people believed the earth to be flat when in actuality we have concluded it's not flat but round. You stated that "growing plants, nurturing them, then harvesting them doesn't equate to cruelty to animals within our current understanding of sentience" So if I was raising animals, nurturing them and then harvesting them there shouldn't be an issue with my consumption of that animal. Which to me means that your issue isn't with meat eaters but rather with the industrial farming of meat which is something completely different than vegetarian versus meat eaters no? What improvements can be made to large scale industrial farming of flowers or vegetables to avoid their suffering for mass consumption? Again, I'm not saying your choice of lifestyle is right nor wrong but lets look at each one using factual information and comparisons.

Give me red meat or give me death, what I can have BOTH! Awesome!

Mr. Bumble: Tis not madness, Ma'am, it's meat.
Mrs. Sowerberry: Meat?
Mr. Bumble: Meat, ma'am, meat! If you kept the boy on gruel this would have never
have happened

Charles Dickens - Oliver Twist

reply to post by purplemer


Thank you for acknowledging that plants have intelligence/feelings and that you do actually kill living things for your own personal consumption similar to meat eaters. I can appreciate that you view animals differently than plants based on your ability to relate to animals more easily..but as mentioned in another post that is simply an inability on your part to amalgamate the idea of both animals and plants as being alive and not a diminishing factor in its validity/importance in the vegetarian versus meat eater debate.

Cheers

I don't think anyone can survive just on meat or just on vegetables. I think everyone has to find balance in what they eat. I do believe that the way animals are raised for meat is really unnatural and disgusting. People should try to find healthier and more humane ways of getting meat.