Welcome to the American Spring

reply to post by LDragonFire

Its my opinion the baby boomer generation have lead us to this place, there fear and welcoming of a police state will not be tolerated by the younger generations. 

Go kids!!! fix what your parents have broken!!!!

In case nobody has been paying attention, Obama and the gang have set everything in place to declare martial law. All they need now is large scale civil unrest and BAM!! And guess which useful idiots will play right into his hands??

Indeed...Go kids!!! Help Obama usher in complete totalitarian control!!

I say stock up the rubber bullets and tear gas and let's get this party started!! 

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

Its my opinion the baby boomer generation have lead us to this place, there fear and welcoming of a police state will not be tolerated by the younger generations. 

Go kids!!! fix what your parents have broken!!!!

In case nobody has been paying attention, Obama and the gang have set everything in place to declare martial law. All they need now is large scale civil unrest and BAM!! And guess which useful idiots will play right into his hands??

Indeed...Go kids!!! Help Obama usher in complete totalitarian control!!

I say stock up the rubber bullets and tear gas and let's get this party started!! 

The Rubicon is about to be crossed either way, seabag. Whether Obama is given his pretext or not, he will do it regardless.

reply to post by seabag


The only useful idiots I see are the silent and the detractors who refuse to stand up, who laugh or say it's a good thing or a justified thing when an Occupier is beaten by a cop, or new laws are created, old laws revised, new city ordinances etc are placed on ALL citizens. You are the ones begging for a police state, Occupiers are showing you that it already exists. You're laughing as the Constitution burns, because you refuse to see that it doesn't just apply to Occupiers, it doesn't just apply to leftists, socialists, whateverists...it applies to all of us.

There's no need for martial law, not with the cowards we have among us. "Oh please cage us, please keep us safe, keep our parks clear, I don't want to be five minutes late for work, I don't want to hear "dirty hippies" speak." It will only cost you one thing, freedom.

reply to post by Kali74

There's no need for martial law, not with the cowards we have among us. "Oh please cage us, please keep us safe, keep our parks clear, I don't want to be five minutes late for work,

You... really don't have much base in reality, do you, kid?

People with jobs - who have a purpose in society - have other people who depend upon them being able to perform that function (coworkers, customers - that whole idea). We pay tax dollars to go toward police who try to keep things orderly so that people can go about doing what allows them to put food on the table - or maybe enjoy the park (supported by tax dollars) with their friend, family, or kids.

Now, personally, I don't need a police force to get people out of my way. However, without the "police state" - it would be rather difficult to deal with people like myself - who would simply kill every male who got in my way as part of one of these demonstrations (I'm a sexist - can't deny it). They are in my and other people's way, and obviously have nothing more productive to do with their time.

The only useful idiots I see are the silent and the detractors who refuse to stand up, who laugh or say it's a good thing or a justified thing when an Occupier is beaten by a cop, or new laws are created, old laws revised, new city ordinances etc are placed on ALL citizens. You are the ones begging for a police state, Occupiers are showing you that it already exists

In popular MMOs, it is generally regarded (in derogatory terms) as lacking in mental facilities when one stands in fire (and wipes the raid because they died). I do not understand why OWS supporters seem to think a real-world equivalent of standing in fire and pulling unnecessary mobs is a sign of forward-thinking.

Further - you don't quite seem to understand how this country of ours works. Demonstrations on the street are not going to accomplish anything.

I'll give you an example. The other day, I talked to a guy outside the county court house about the "Show Me Cannabis" initiative/petition to introduce a piece of legislation on the ballot to decriminalize cannabis in the state. He wasn't the most educated fellow I'd ever come across - but he was actually doing something productive with the 'demonstration' (if you'd call it that). He had a specific piece of legislation for people to look over and give feedback on. The petition was required to put the issue on the ballot.

Agree or disagree with his personal motivations (which I didn't ask) - he was being a functional part of the system and enabling it to address the needs of the population that government system serves.

That's distinctly absent from OWS - which is the social equivalent of a temper-tantrum combined with even more shock and anger that they receive a back-hand for getting out of line.

reply to post by Aim64C


lolpve.
Not my fault the police hax.

People with jobs - who have a purpose in society - have other people who depend upon them being able to perform that function (coworkers, customers - that whole idea). We pay tax dollars to go toward police who try to keep things orderly so that people can go about doing what allows them to put food on the table - or maybe enjoy the park (supported by tax dollars) with their friend, family, or kids.

Yep sure thing, too bad it's not only our taxes funding police. Also you may have had a point if the police weren't instigating the violence and blocking traffic etc... I take it you value order over the Constitution.

reply to post by Kali74


In Egypt, the Arab Spring led to government takeover by radical Muslim extremists.

The Islamist Muslim Brotherhood’s Freedom and Justice Party took 58 percent of the available seats in the upper house of Egypt’s parliament, while the even more extremist Salafist Al-Nour party took a quarter of the seats. In all, more than 80 percent of the contended seats in Egypt’s upper parliament are now in the hands of Muslim extremists. Last year’s “Arab Spring” is now more fully manifesting its true character: the transformation of Egypt into a more stridently Islamist regime.

link


The same will likely happen with the American Spring; radicals are seeking to take over. Obama, Soros and their ilk are using the unemployed, angry masses to usher in a takeover by extremists in the name of national security. The fools at OWS will start more trouble, martial law will be declared to break it up, and the police state will be in full effect ready to crush any resistance to TPTB. They want this to happen before the election so Obama can remain in power.

You're all pawns!

reply to post by seabag


The radicals already took over America and has had a direct hand in our policy for at least 10 years. They are called the Neo-cons.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Kali74

 

In Egypt, the Arab Spring led to government takeover by radical Muslim extremists.

The same will likely happen with the American Spring; radicals are seeking to take over. Obama, Soros and their ilk are using the unemployed, angry masses to usher in a takeover by extremists in the name of national security. The fools at OWS will start more trouble, martial law will be declared to break it up, and the police state will be in full effect ready to crush any resistance to TPTB. They want this to happen before the election so Obama can remain in power.

You're all pawns!

Which is why the people haven't stopped protesting in Egypt.
Obama is right in line with what the "Right" wants so I don't know why you keep complaining and throwing his name around with Occupy.
Soros? Come on, now you're just trolling.
There will not be a declared Martial Law in the US, there's no need as our police are militarized and fools like certain detractors keep making it easy for that to continue and strengthen. You've been owned by fear propaganda.
It's pretty clear who the pawns are. I think you're running low on torches.

reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms

The radicals already took over America and has had a direct hand in our policy for at least 10 years. They are called the Neo-cons.

I remain as dumbfounded today by the lack of planning by OWS as I was in the beginning. Has OWS done anything different since their last tantrum? What does OWS hope to accomplish with their protesting and violence? Who are they trying to appeal to, really? Hypothetically speaking, if a bloody revolt happens at the hands of OWS and all of the supposed ‘bad people’ are removed….THEN WHAT?? OWS can’t even organize their own damn movement so why should anyone have any faith that they will know what to if they succeed??

What hope will we have at that point? The inmates will be running the asylum.

reply to post by seabag


Ah we're back on the merry-go-round attack strategy then? Ignore, minimize/trivialize, demonize, brutalize.

reply to post by Kali74


That's because they know damn well what OWS is about, and they know that on a fundamental level it's a debate they can't win.

So they shift and divert the issues, if you can't convince 'em confuse 'em.

The right has come out against OWS as a monolithic bloc from the get go.

They all think exactly the same, but we're the ones who are pawns, yea whatever....

reply to post by Kali74

Yep sure thing, too bad it's not only our taxes funding police. Also you may have had a point if the police weren't instigating the violence and blocking traffic etc... I take it you value order over the Constitution.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with said Constitution and the authorities it grants states in establishing police departments and laws.

Further, I've yet to see much in the way of police instigated violence. It is very difficult to argue the standpoint that police instigate violence when they would not even be present were it not for the OWS demonstrations to begin with.

I respect the Constitution and the functional purpose it stands for. I do not use it as an excuse for my behavior.

It's pretty clear who the pawns are. I think you're running low on torches.

*sigh*

Better a pawn as compared to a tool?

reply to post by jlv70


I keep looking for the plug to the cloning machine but then I get distracted by something that matters.

reply to post by Aim64C


So don't demonstrate? Are you serious? lol
It's pretty hard to see anything when you squeeze your eyes shut, plug your ears, and shout lalalala like a 4 year old, isn't it?

Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by Kali74

 

There's no need for martial law, not with the cowards we have among us. "Oh please cage us, please keep us safe, keep our parks clear, I don't want to be five minutes late for work,

People with jobs - who have a purpose in society - have other people who depend upon them being able to perform that function (coworkers, customers - that whole idea). We pay tax dollars to go toward police who try to keep things orderly so that people can go about doing what allows them to put food on the table - or maybe enjoy the park (supported by tax dollars) with their friend, family, or kids.

I can accept this argument; what I don't understand, is why the aggression and condescension has to go with it.

Now, personally, I don't need a police force to get people out of my way. However, without the "police state" - it would be rather difficult to deal with people like myself - who would simply kill every male who got in my way as part of one of these demonstrations (I'm a sexist - can't deny it). They are in my and other people's way, and obviously have nothing more productive to do with their time.

I recently went through a six month period where I heard a lot of this kind of talk. It came from people who had ended up basing their entire lives around violence, and consequently felt that they constantly needed to tell other people how badass they were, because of the degree to which they'd got used to believing, that they needed to defend themselves from physical abuse.

When I see someone bragging about their ability to inflict violence on others now, I don't see something admirable. I actually see a person who is deeply insecure. Assuming you've got a decent amount of physical strength, and a basic knowledge of human anatomy, beating pretty much anyone to the point of death, who isn't a martial artist, really isn't all that difficult. Getting angry with someone on the other hand, and managing to avoid doing that...that can be a lot harder.

In popular MMOs, it is generally regarded (in derogatory terms) as lacking in mental facilities when one stands in fire (and wipes the raid because they died). I do not understand why OWS supporters seem to think a real-world equivalent of standing in fire and pulling unnecessary mobs is a sign of forward-thinking.

You might notice my avatar, here. She was my World of Warcraft character for two and a half years, back at the end of the original (pre-expansion) game. I got pretty good at kiting, and having to maintain DPS while moving around (as in, staying out of slime and fire) as a Hunter; certainly not the best, but not the worst, either.

Irrespective of people's actual abilities, though, one of the main reasons why I ended up leaving that game, was because of the degree to which people's attitudes towards each other deterioriated over time. WoW became full of people with exactly the type of elitism and aggression related issues that you're exhibiting here.

Further - you don't quite seem to understand how this country of ours works. Demonstrations on the street are not going to accomplish anything.

I largely agree with this. Kali can tell you about how we've argued over this very issue. I have, however, come to recognise that Occupy actually does have its' uses; it's just that protest as such isn't really one of them, to the degree that they themselves think.

That's distinctly absent from OWS - which is the social equivalent of a temper-tantrum combined with even more shock and anger that they receive a back-hand for getting out of line.

The bottom line is that the police do not need to be backhanding anyone. If they were genuinely disciplined, they could put someone on the ground and handcuff them without engaging in any other violence at all. If you want to get OWS off the streets and into jail cells, that is one thing; but bashing them to the extent that we've been seeing, is entirely unnecessary in order to accomplish that goal.

reply to post by jlv70

That's because they know damn well what OWS is about, and they know that on a fundamental level it's a debate they can't win.

What's it about, again? Enlighten the doltish herd of sheep, please.

So they shift and divert the issues, if you can't convince 'em confuse 'em.

What is the goal of OWS? What will it take for the movement to have completed its purpose? Under what conditions will they consider it no longer necessary to protest?

The right has come out against OWS as a monolithic bloc from the get go.

They all think exactly the same, but we're the ones who are pawns, yea whatever

It's not really worth supporting or getting one's hopes up over a missionless blob of people adrift in the streets.

And that is why OWS will never accomplish anything other than giving a few douchebags some power. The people don't want to be "normal." They don't want to find a way to go home and live in peace with family and friends. They join OWS because of the social and psychological function it serves. By being part of OWS, they are not "normal." They are special - enlightened; transformed to be more than meets the eye (robots in disguise, pehaps?)

It's about feeling important and a part of something.

Which is why its members will never want it to go away - and will never feel as though they have accomplished their mission (even better - they don't really have one).

A group that can, honestly, feel satisfied and accomplished by demonstrations, alone, is no group worth placing an ounce of stock in. Until their hunger can only be satisfied by some form of productivity - they are a non-issue and a nuisance.

reply to post by Aim64C


How many times has this been posted on this website?

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

www.nycga.net..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">webcache.googleusercontent.com...:www.nycga.net...

Originally posted by petrus4


[The bottom line is that the police do not need to be backhanding anyone. If they were genuinely disciplined, they could put someone on the ground and handcuff them without engaging in any other violence at all. If you want to get OWS off the streets and into jail cells, that is one thing; but bashing them to the extent that we've been seeing, is entirely unnecessary in order to accomplish that goal.

edit on 21-3-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

That's done for a reason, which is to intimidate and antagonize. We aren't dealing with a police force whose purpose is to serve and protect, but rather one used as a personal army to the Commissioner and Mayor (speaking of NYC of course).

The main purpose in this instance (maintaining order in OWS) is not to break up obstructions or free traffic flow or even to protect those citizens within the area not associated with OWS. The three main purposes for their presence and aggression are:

1. Showcasing "state" power; protecting the state and it's interests from the people.
2. Protecting the financial district (Wall street)
3. Preventing the movement from growing and receiving more coverage.

They are or have been, whether they know it or not, reduced to mercenaries.

reply to post by Kali74

So don't demonstrate? Are you serious?

Demonstration without purpose and specificity are a fool's errand.

The States commissioned the drafting of the Constitution after the failure of the Continental Congress. They could sit, gripe, and bicker until the end of time - but could never accomplish anything unless single proposals were drafted and put forth to be evaluated and decided upon.

It's pretty hard to see anything when you squeeze your eyes shut, plug your ears, and shout lalalala like a 4 year old, isn't it?

You really don't understand a thing about me. I was projecting this very type of thing happening to our country back when I was still a wee lad in middle school. Granted - it was only the axioms of such a transformation, but I knew that I would be growing up in a country on the brink of its own destruction.

The difference between you and me is that of maturity. Only a child is so immature as to consider him or herself fully mature and aware.

reply to post by petrus4

I can accept this argument; what I don't understand, is why the aggression and condescension has to go with it.

Fatigue-induced failure of patience.

When I see someone bragging about their ability to inflict violence on others now, I don't see something admirable. I actually see a person who is deeply insecure. Assuming you've got a decent amount of physical strength, and a basic knowledge of human anatomy, beating pretty much anyone to the point of death, who isn't a martial artist, really isn't all that difficult.

You misunderstand my intention with that post.

I respect the laws because they are functional. In the absence of law, I do what is expedient and beneficial to me based on an analysis of the factors available. People I consider to be sub-sentient are factors to, generally, be eliminated when posing an obstruction.

Thus, it is the "police state" that allows such things as demonstrations to occur peacefully - as those of us with the capability and initiative would simply render our own personal judgment instead of defaulting to the State court.

WoW became full of people with exactly the type of elitism and aggression related issues that you're exhibiting here.

I return that which is rendered.

If you wish to single my post out for its tone - then that is your prerogative. However, the cultural bias on this forum does not blind me to the arrogance of the "pro-conspirators" on this site.

Note that you are not necessarily included as the subject of that remark.

The bottom line is that the police do not need to be backhanding anyone.

That was a figure of speech.

If they were genuinely disciplined, they could put someone on the ground and handcuff them without engaging in any other violence at all.

You are getting into individual cases, there. I agree - the actions of some offers have been well over the line (and not just in dealing with OWS). Police discipline is considerably lacking by comparison to the military counterpart (MPs, MAs, etc).

If you want to get OWS off the streets and into jail cells, that is one thing; but bashing them to the extent that we've been seeing, is entirely unnecessary in order to accomplish that goal.

Most of the cases I've seen fall mostly on the shoulders of OWS. In some cases - police response has been unnecessarily intense - but most of it was initiated and perpetuated by OWS members who like to think the Constitution gives them the right to do whatever they want, wherever they want (because the State, County/City, and its laws don't exist in their mind).

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Kali74

 

In Egypt, the Arab Spring led to government takeover by radical Muslim extremists.

The Islamist Muslim Brotherhood’s Freedom and Justice Party took 58 percent of the available seats in the upper house of Egypt’s parliament, while the even more extremist Salafist Al-Nour party took a quarter of the seats. In all, more than 80 percent of the contended seats in Egypt’s upper parliament are now in the hands of Muslim extremists. Last year’s “Arab Spring” is now more fully manifesting its true character: the transformation of Egypt into a more stridently Islamist regime.

link


The same will likely happen with the American Spring; radicals are seeking to take over. Obama, Soros and their ilk are using the unemployed, angry masses to usher in a takeover by extremists in the name of national security. The fools at OWS will start more trouble, martial law will be declared to break it up, and the police state will be in full effect ready to crush any resistance to TPTB. They want this to happen before the election so Obama can remain in power.

You're all pawns!

in the state of Oregon and Washington political protesters are paid. YEP!!!
whats real and whats fake. Quit protesting Wall Street and protest Pennsylvania Ave. where some good can be done.I keep saying 300million man PEACEFUL march but still no takers.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Its my opinion the baby boomer generation have lead us to this place, there fear and welcoming of a police state will not be tolerated by the younger generations.

Go kids!!! fix what your parents have broken!!!!

.

how is this just the fault of the Baby Boomers generation. Clearly you cannot implicate your self as you neither are old enough to vote and have not paid any taxes.