2nd Trimester Abortions, What Is Your Stance On Them?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I'm a man. So I have no opinion. If you are a man you should keep your opinion to yourself too. Don't judge someone till you have walked a mile in their shoes. How can we say what is the right thing to do in a situation none of us has ever or will ever be in?

If a woman wants to have an abortion it is her choice. Whatever opinions I or any man has should be kept to themselves. If a woman wants input on her abortion the only valid input is from a woman who has had one.

100% opposed.

reply to post by dogstar23

There must come a point at which "sentient consciousness" begins, probably in the 2nd half of the 1st trimester - that should probably be the ultimate limit point.

I agree, except where the point lies. First trimester is way too soon for any sentience or consciousness to be present. 5th month of pregnancy is more like it, and still probably a lower limit. Simple reflexes are not a sign of consciousness or sentience. Let me refer you to my earlier post on the matter:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am not a woman but I would prefer 1st trimester terminations and low cost birth control to stem them. There has been some great research showing the increase of abortions and the decrease in crime over time and that's probably because of many poor mothers knowing it's not the right time and place for them to have there children.

Buddha1098 - how can you say it's not your place, men provide the seed to life, women provide it a place to grow - you can't have there choice without yours.

I think most pro-choice people are split about 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions. For me there is no question that a 3rd trimester abortion is wrong unless it is necessary for the health of the mother. This is largely based on my veganism and the fact that fetuses in the 3rd trimester have a fused nervous system and can respond to pain stimuli. In the 2nd trimester the suffering isn't so much of an issue, but something seems a little shady about it. So to be honest I'm pretty ambivalent about 2nd trimester abortion regulations. Definitely should be legal for the health of the mother but I can tolerate regulations or non-regulations otherwise.

Originally posted by Avardan
100% opposed.

In my opinion that's deadly.

I'm 100% FOR...

BIRTH = DEFINING MOMENT.

Before that its part of the mother's body. And I have 2 strong reasons for feeling that strongly.

1st, an old friend who was denied an abortion at 4 months. She had a rape'ish situation as well as 2 other kids and no way she was going to give birth to that thing. The more time went by the more determined she got - and she was punching herself. At 7 months she succeeded - and ended up in the hospital for a week due to it. She recovered and soon after did get a job and continued raising her 2 boys. There was no way the law protecting her woomb was going to do anything other than deny medical services.
Edit+: Her situation also demonstrates the problem with 1st trimester-laws. She wasn't regular on her periods and didn't know for sure that she was pregnant till about 3 months and it took about a month to get into a clinic that just made it worse by stalling and doing nothing.

2.nd, my wife and I now --- if we conceive there's serious health risks. We have no insurance and there's no way I would trust the medical establishment to determine whether or not she was going to have to continue a pregnancy. If hypothetically she had a serious problem at 8 months with services denied I'd do it for her myself - rather than watching her have to punch herself like Beth did.

My view doesn't dishonor the life that's WITHIN the mother's body... instead it simply recognizes that it IS part of the MOTHER and violating the mother via a law prescribing punishment for some of her options hurts her and even costs us money to do that. It asserts authority over the womb, and THAT's a ...

WAR ON WOMEN, WOW

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

I'm a man. So I have no opinion. If you are a man you should keep your opinion to yourself too. Don't judge someone till you have walked a mile in their shoes. How can we say what is the right thing to do in a situation none of us has ever or will ever be in?

If a woman wants to have an abortion it is her choice. Whatever opinions I or any man has should be kept to themselves. If a woman wants input on her abortion the only valid input is from a woman who has had one.

edit on 20-3-2012 by Buddha1098 because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-3-2012 by Buddha1098 because: (no reason given)

I couldn't disagree more (yes, I am a man).

Wrong is wrong. I'm not buying this hippie crap that says I can't have an opinion about an issue simply because a penis hangs between my legs (oh yeah, and I have a y chromosome and some extra testosterone too). It doesn't matter that I can't become pregnant; I have a mind that is capable of assessing the consequences and information surrounding the issue.

This is an issue of LIFE. Every human being has a right to an opinion, and I'm sure not going to keep mine to myself. Should I not have an opinion regarding the fair and ethical treatment of black people (or other minorities) just because I'm white?

I believe your logic is entirely screwed up here.

Originally posted by Maslo

Originally posted by theplu
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Nobody is Pro-Abortion.

Well, if it is before 5th month of pregnancy, I am quite pro-abortion. Not only is it not wrong at all, but it is arguably a highly moral act to kill the foetus if mother is unsure whether she is ready.

It is my understanding that at the 3rd month, there is a central nervous system and functioning brain
life is sensation..knowledge...thought
I think I am, therefore I am.

If there is a working CNS and brain, then we are discussing a lifeform verses just a mass of potential...why do you say 5 months?

Originally posted by Texasbud
I understand there are acceptable reasons for an abortion, but for a normal pregnancy I am against it. Here's why....
I knew a young woman (20yrs.) who had a newborn. It was painfully obvious this young mother viewed her child as a tremendous burden. The child was a beautiful girl, very bright, and full of love. Mom resented her for getting in the way of her date nights and her daily routine. Soon after this child was born, the mother became pregnant again. She couldn't handle the thought of having another baby pulling her strings so she went to the doctor and aborted the "fetus." The mother "felt" as if she had done something wrong and lived the remainder of her life with a huge guilt complex. You see, a little more than a year after her abortion she drove her car into a culvert at 70mph. Her "burdens" were finally lifted. I am not trying to say she died because she had an abortion, I am merely pointing out that she wanted freedom to do as she pleased. I knew her well and the first child is my lovely granddaughter.

Some abortions are understood, in my opinion, but most are done for selfish reasons. If play, you pay.....one way or another.

This story is not representative of all women. There are women who have abortions and go on to live perfectly happy lives even suggesting that an abortion was the right option for them. Lets face it, some women don't want to be mothers but you cant deny that women want to be as sexually active as men. Indeed they should use proper birth control but no birth control is 100%

reply to post by reitze

BIRTH = DEFINING MOMENT.

Why not outside viability as a defining moment? Altough I still disagree, I can see how your examples could be used to justify abortion up to viability limit (cca 6th month, will get progressively lower in the future). But after that, the foetus is viable and pregnancy can be ended without leading to its death. So still no third-trimester abortions.

Originally posted by reitze

BIRTH = DEFINING MOMENT.

Could you abort a day before natural birth?

I think you need more principled grounds...you must define what life is overall..clearly a 9 month old should not be aborted unless it was 100% certain that the mother would die...in which case it is simply survival of the one that can have more.

To think otherwise makes you a monster...and this is coming from a pro-choice guy.

I personally see life..a human..come when there is thought...and that comes from a fully developed central nervous system and brain function...aka, about the 3 month mark..and frankly, at 3 months, you should have decided..especially with the ability to determine a pregnancy for a few bucks at the store and a trip to the bathroom the day your period is late...much less missing 3 periods and still not sure.

reply to post by SaturnFX

It is my understanding that at the 3rd month, there is a central nervous system and functioning brain
life is sensation..knowledge...thought
I think I am, therefore I am.

If there is a working CNS and brain, then we are discussing a lifeform verses just a mass of potential...why do you say 5 months?

See my earlier post on the matter:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Functioning higher brain required for thought is not present before 5th month of fetal development. There can be no mind before that.

reply to post by DarkATi


Wasn't clear enough I apologize.

Of course I have an opinion, and you have a right to one but what is more valuable an educated opinion based on experience or one based on cultural conditioning and personal bias?

Would you climb Everest with someone who wrote book on climbing and your own opinion on what climbing is like or a sherpa who has been there before?

I can support racial equality but I'll never know what it's like to be non-white. Just like you can be pro-life and support the right to life but you will never know what it's like to be a pregnant woman.

Your opinion is from a position of ignorance.

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
A 2:46 clip to open your mind to a new perspective:

I'm pro-life from conception to death.

It apples and oranges. The slavery law does not effect the child till after it is born into the world. Your argument is still the same based on your belief that conception is the same as a child already born. You are free to believe that if you like however if it is based on Christianity then it is a false belief because the Christian scriptures teach that life begins with the first breath and do not even condemn a man a murderer if he beats his pregnant wife and the baby is aborted because of it...

Originally posted by kingofmd
Question for all of the "I am for a woman's right to her body..." ranters:

How exactly is the fetus a "part of her body", while the fetus has it's own specific DNA, in some cases a different blood type, and in 1/2 the cases a penis? I am all for a woman to have the right to say what goes on for her body, but the fetus' body is not hers, so could we please stop that argument.

The answer to your question is that the fetus is for lack of a better word, a parasite. Without a host it cannot live, and a woman has the right to decide if she is a host or not.
Im not sure your aware of what it actually takes to carry a child for 9 months.

Seems to me that everyone in this thread is pro-choice.

The choice some of you are making is to take someone else's choice away from them.

EDIT:

Read that however you want to, but understand that a fetus doesn't have the ability to make a choice, and as such, cannot have a choice taken from them.

I usually try and stay far away from polarizing subjects/topics such as this, but IMO only in special circumstances (mother's health, rape, incest) should this be allowed. I am a believer in a woman's right to choose, but after a certain point it becomes obvious that the fetus is no longer a fetus and is an actual baby.

reply to post by calstorm

I agree with you about the awareness-its amazing! My oldest daughter was born just 28 weeks into my pregnancy,and weighed just 970 grams.That was 20 years ago,but luckily it was at the Tygerberg Hospital outside Cape Town,in those days one of the finest state hospitals in the world.I could just hold her for a minute as she had to be rushed to the Neonatal ICU section,obviously.But i will never forget the way she looked up at me! There was curiosity in that stare,and my ex saw it as well,he still said:"My goodness,look how she's looking at you!" Astounding and wonderful.I may add that she's the healthiest out of all of us,she never realy gets sick,except the occasional sniffles from a cold.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by reitze

 

BIRTH = DEFINING MOMENT.

Why not outside viability as a defining moment? Altough I still disagree, I can see how your examples could be used to justify abortion up to viability limit (cca 6th month, will get progressively lower in the future). But after that, the foetus is viable and pregnancy can be ended without leading to its death. So still no third-trimester abortions.

The point is while it resides within the mother it IS part of her. And during that time ANY controls enforced by punishments placed upon her over that body part is SATANIC. And that includes all the way THROUGH the birth-canal. No if it doesn't fit or there's a c-section surgery to get an 8 month fetus to 'birth' - that's fine if its up to the mother but NO # WAY is your law a reason to force my wife onto your operating table and kill her extracting a fetus. I'd rather use my own knife...

And it seems there's a lot of satanic idiots just begging women to use such knives in different situations too. Declaring a war on women, sure you really want that you satanic idiots? I'm personally amazed at the misogynistic legalisms so many women do tolerate. Try some common sense:

Birth = DEFINING MOMENT of CITIZENSHIP.

There's a "birth certificate" normally associated with that too - or a registration for one in home birth situations. And due to the WOW, seems safest for a woman to avoid all contact with government and medical establishments otherwise - lest she get killed by their knives.

War On Women = SATANIC enslaving mom's for fetuses...
WOW, Power Infliction of Government sucks. PIGs!

Originally posted by torqpoc
reply to post by ofhumandescent

 

Listen dear, I don't know why you thought it wise to respond to me. I thought I made it pretty crystal clear what I thought.

I'll leave it at that. Please don't try to "educate" me with another response, i'll consider it trolling and will respond in kind.

T

nice. remind me to not try to have a conversation with you if you've already made it crystal clear what you think.