Math Philosophy-- Why does 1/∞ not equal 0, and for that matter, what is ∞?

Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by UKLionheart

 

No, I get that just fine. Maybe you and OS don't get it, we are assuming we HAVE reached that point. You cannot add anymore, you reached the end of it. Some theoretical force of whatever is preventing you from ever adding anything else. Then what? You divide 1 by it and get 0, or not? Take this question by theory, not by what some guy with a text book told you to think. There is nothing you can do to disprove what I am saying, so in theory just answer it as it is intended to be answered--not by the spin your brain wishes to prod it into.

Not trying to be rude here I just want 1 or 2 people to just answer the question how it is asked.

Ok, you want an answer...here.

1/infinity = small


If you want to use a concept as part of an equation...I can use a concept as the answer.

Or hell...we are living in the realm of fantasy...so I'll change my answer.

1/infinity = dragons

Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Ok now I am dancing. You answer first. Then you look like the bigger man and if I "still don't answer" then guess what, you win anyway. You have nothing to lose.

You are never going to answer because either

a) You don't understand what we are saying

or

b) you know you are wrong but can't admit it

I don't mind if infinity is not considered a number as long as 0 is also treated as such. However this isn't the case in the mainstream.

As I've already shown using reciprocals, 0 is just as distant from 1 as it is from infinity.

0 is infinitely small, infinity is infinitely big. Together they define the radial dimension. To ignore one is to say that the other side of the coin does not exist.

Note that I'm not defining infinity as a number with an infinite amount of digits, I'm defining it as the upper limit, the farthest possible distance from 0.

The numbers with the most amount of digits reside in what I call the "awareness barrier". If you count from infinity and 0 at the same time, they will approach the awareness barrier but never reach each other. In this sense, a certain aspect or understanding of infinity is deferred. You would think that the number just below infinity would have a ridiculous (and undefinable) amount of digits, but with the advent of shadow numbers (any number that uses infinity as the origin) this is no longer a problem. Infinity can now be understood as well as 0, but we still can't comprehend the numbers in the awareness barrier (because we're not aware of them yet and we can't be aware of them all).


Interestingly, I didn't even ask the question "what is ∞/∞" until I saw the answer staring me in the face. I too thought the idea was preposterous, but geometry doesn't lie. Using the root grid calc you can see how the fractional representation gets closer and closer to ∞/∞ as it approaches 1. For example, 1/2, 2/3, 3/4, etc. Eventually you'll have really large numbers like 10000/10001.

However, no matter how big these finite numbers get, they will not equal 1. So what is that point at the top of the grid? What's the fractional representation of it if it's not ∞/∞? Should we create a new number to define it? To say it doesn't exist is to leave 1 (and -1) out of the picture.


And don't give me that "undefined" non-answer crap. That's defeatism and the reason mathematics is currently stagnating in schools. Too few attempt to discover and instead only learn to regurgitate the knowledge of those who came before.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

2/∞ must equal zero.
Now, look at 1/0. Does that equal infinity? It may be the only true way to describe ∞, and the most basic of ways. What is(1/1)/(1/0)? (0/1)

What about 3/0? What does that equal? Also ∞, which is situational to this case because if we had this equation:
(3/1)/(3/0),
what do you get? 1/0... ∞

To say that these infinities are interchangeable enough to equal each other and that 1=2... that is nonsensical.


But here lays the difference between you and I. The "fundamental" basis of math that you keep telling me I have no grasp of, appears to be up for debate. Unless you can prove otherwise, which you have tried to do and cannot.

Base three is a great place for you--it is limited and simple.

Ok, you want an answer...here. 1/infinity = small If you want to use a concept as part of an equation...I can use a concept as the answer. Or hell...we are living in the realm of fantasy...so I'll change my answer. 1/infinity = dragons

Now that is pathetic. You are wonderful at ruining a concept that holds some element of reality. You cannot ruin by disproving me logically, so now you need to play the funny card. Ooo look, you even have a star! The masses must love you.


May I remind you that many of the greatest minds and discoveries in Earth's history were started because people like you had to look big.

I am not humble enough to say that that mind will not be me, but I am realistic by saying that it doesn't mean that you won't inspire someone else through your demeaning rhetoric.

Can't wait to find the day that actually brings you down from the clouds.


And hey, maybe I am a dreamer myself. But I am man enough to admit it... I hope to make things bigger and better. You hope to crush things, making everything else but yourself smaller. 2 very different approaches toward the same goal.

reply to post by PhysicsAdept

To say that these infinities are interchangeable enough to equal each other and that 1=2... that is nonsensical.

So now you have different infinities? Well what happens if you divide 2 by the infinity you are dividing 1 by, what do you get?

You keep digging yourself in a hole because you can't admit you are wrong.

You can call yourself a mathematician...but you clearly are not...it's fun to play make believe though.

Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by UKLionheart

 

No, I get that just fine. Maybe you and OS don't get it, we are assuming we HAVE reached that point. You cannot add anymore, you reached the end of it. Some theoretical force of whatever is preventing you from ever adding anything else. Then what? You divide 1 by it and get 0, or not? Take this question by theory, not by what some guy with a text book told you to think. There is nothing you can do to disprove what I am saying, so in theory just answer it as it is intended to be answered--not by the spin your brain wishes to prod it into.

Not trying to be rude here I just want 1 or 2 people to just answer the question how it is asked.

OK - I see what you are saying, and I've re-read your original post. I originally answered because I too love maths, and I see that you want to go on to a higher level, That's great! And a big part of that is questionning and pushing boundaries as that is how we learn at higher levels.

Just a few things though: It's not what "some guy with a textbook" told me; I do actually have a maths degree, so I AM the guy with the textbook! :-p

And more seriously; there are some set definitions which give us the rules of maths, which in turn, give us the rules of physics. We cannot answer your question as it re-defines infinity. It would be similar to re-defining the value of pi to 3. All of a sudden, circles would not work! When you go on to study more advanced physics, are you going to challenge "some guy with a textbook" telling you that speed is distance/time because you want to change the definition of it for a hypothetical question?

And just so you know - my question that irritated my physics lecturer was "on a magnet, if this end is North and that end is South, what is in the middle?" and I wouldn't let that one lie! Haha!

Simple to grasp, What is 1/2 ?

1/2 is only one of infinite numbers that can be used in this equation.. It will never reach zero as you just end up with a smaller number and a bigger decimal place. Not that hard to grasp.

reply to post by PhysicsAdept

If you are meaning that 1 over or divided by infinity equals....and you thought ZERO. I would have to digress.

1 divited by Infinity = Infinity

OR...depending on your parameters...1 divided by Infinity = 1

OR...looking at it from a Metaphysical point of veiw....1/Infinity

Split Infinity

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


(2/1)/(1/0)=(0/(1^2))=0/1=0

Did you forget how to cross multiply?

Here, math is fun. Try it out.

Cross Multiply

reply to post by PhysicsAdept

Now that is pathetic. You are wonderful at ruining a concept that holds some element of reality. You cannot ruin by disproving me logically, so now you need to play the funny card. Ooo look, you even have a star! The masses must love you.

Many people have proved you wrong logically...I just don't think you understand logic.

You wanted to misuse a concept, you wanted to use a concept as a number...I and others tried nicely to show you how your thinking is wrong...you don't listen. In fact you go further and say that WE are the ones that are confused.

The only thing left to do is to mock you to show how ridiculous your claim is.

So yes...I'm going to stick with 1/infinity = dragons. Prove me wrong...I'll wait.

May I remind you that many of the greatest minds and discoveries in Earth's history were started because people like you had to look big.

I am not humble enough to say that that mind will not be me, but I am realistic by saying that it doesn't mean that you won't inspire someone else through your demeaning rhetoric.

No, clearly you aren't humble at all...and don't try to kid anyone...you do think you are that person.

Can't wait to find the day that actually brings you down from the clouds.

I'm often wrong, I admit it and learn from it.

So don't hold your breath...because I have no problem being wrong.

And hey, maybe I am a dreamer myself. But I am man enough to admit it... I hope to make things bigger and better. You hope to crush things, making everything else but yourself smaller. 2 very different approaches toward the same goal.

I only live my life by logic...and my only hope is that others would too.

What the heck was THAT all about? LOL!

My name is Split Infinity....never said how many times split. LOL!

Split Infinity

Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

(2/1)/(1/0)=(0/(1^2))=0/1=0

Did you forget how to cross multiply?

Here, math is fun. Try it out.

Cross Multiply

edit on 19-3-2012 by PhysicsAdept because: (no reason given)

Look out, your immaturity is showing.

And you are still not making sense.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Hmm so 1 and 0 are no longer numbers. Even when I apply them in a perfectly logical sense, you refute it.

Now I see what everyone talks about when it comes to you... Man I hate to accept rumors as truth.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Pages and pages and pages ago you denied I had a fundamental grasp of math. How is this different? Wait, let me guess, dragons?

Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Hmm so 1 and 0 are no longer numbers. Even when I apply them in a perfectly logical sense, you refute it.

Now I see what everyone talks about when it comes to you... Man I hate to accept rumors as truth.

You are dividing by zero...which is not logical.

Try again.

And yes, the rumors are true...I won't let illogical nonsense pass without calling it out.

Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

Pages and pages and pages ago you denied I had a fundamental grasp of math. How is this different? Wait, let me guess, dragons?

Have you proved that 1/infinity = dragons isn't true?

I'm waiting for you to prove that I'm wrong.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Oh so you have heard of yourself as well? Odd, my notes do not match up to yours. Well, dividing by 0, you can deny it but then you would be denying the number 0. Is that a dragon as well? Is that how you rationalize things that cannot be completely explained? I am doing the best I can, and unfortunately you are too which is making you look like a fool.

You do not have to accept everything I say, but you are starting to point out things that you cannot, with any amount of logic deny. OOO someone stepped out of the box and divided by the very real 0 thingy. Shoot em! It cannot be, mother said so.

reply to post by PhysicsAdept


I look forward to it,

reply to post by PhysicsAdept


You can't divide by zero because it causes things like this

0 * 1/0 = 0 (because anything times zero is zero)

and

0 * 1/0 = 1 (because a * b/a = b)

thus

0 = 1


As a briliant mathematician...I'm sure you don't need me to walk you through this...right?