Math Philosophy-- Why does 1/∞ not equal 0, and for that matter, what is ∞?

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

He has been proven wrong over and over...he just won't admit it. Like I said...he is either too arrogant to admit he is wrong or too ignorant to see it.

Say it over and over, it doesn't mean jack squat, nor does it make you look any smarter.

First, you can't dis-prove a QUESTION, you can only answer it. Being proven wrong for asking a question?

Second, you can't disprove a theory involving PHILOSOPHY. (Good luck!)

Third, Where is this thread located OKS? That's right, PSYCHOLOGY, PHILOSOPHY and METAPHYSICS. Wow, good luck proving THAT wrong.

Trust me, you don't look any smarter, I'm puzzled as to why you keep wasting time here.

You have not grasped the OP from the beginning and that is the whole problem. You don't have to like it, then again you don't have to read it either!

reply to post by Wookiep


You can prove faulty reasoning and the incorrect use of concepts.

But if you are Physics thinks the reasoning is sound and concepts are valid to use as numbers...I would love the answers to these.

1/large = ?

1/small = ?

1/huge = ?

1/finite = ?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Wookiep

 

You can prove faulty reasoning and the incorrect use of concepts.

But if you are Physics thinks the reasoning is sound and concepts are valid to use as numbers...I would love the answers to these.

1/large = ?

1/small = ?

1/huge = ?

1/finite = ?

Oh good luck with that. If you can't grasp the ideas that you obviously disagree with as CONCEPT and THEORY and QUESTIONING then you don't belong here. I don't believe the answers to this "reasoning" as you put it were claimed to be solved by the OP. You're asking the question to provoke and troll, period. Go troll somewhere else until you can add something valuable rather than circular arguments that you think pertain to the OP, but don't.

reply to post by Wookiep

If you can't grasp the ideas that you obviously disagree with as CONCEPT and THEORY and QUESTIONING then you don't belong here.

I grasp them just fine...the OP clearly doesn't.

There is questioning...and then there is non-sensical questioning.

When you say things like "when you reach infinity"...it is a clear sign that the person doesn't understand the concept.

The OP got a really good laugh out of 1/infinity = dragons...yet he doesn't understand that it is just as valid as him saying 1/infinity = 0.

He doesn't understand why you can't divide by zero or why you can't reach infinity.

But yes...it is clearly me that has the issue with grasping these concepts.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
When you say things like "when you reach infinity"...it is a clear sign that the person doesn't understand the concept.

It was a thought experiment and you're using semantics to try and discredit. Sure you can't "reach infinity" when counting sequentially as that would take an infinite amount of time, but part of the reason for thought experiments is to bypass physical limitations in order to make a realization.

Your douchery has no bounds. It's infinite.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by graphuto
reply to post by graphuto

 

Example:

I cut a pie into three pieces. I have 3 pieces of a whole pie. Math tells me that there is only now .9999 repeating left of that pie, but observation tells me that the whole thing is still there.

No, math does not leave .9999r left of that pie. Math tells you that you have 3 pieces of the pie, all 1/3 of the original. If we try to write 1/3 in decimal form, it is 0.3r of the original. If anything, math would tell you that you have 0.0r1 left over of the pie...which isn't even correct notation because no one ever uses it...but it would be 0.0(repeating infinitely)1.

It's an issue of our numbering system. If we would use base 3....than 1/3 (base 10) would be 1/10 (base 3)...which equals 0.1 (base 3).

So what you're proposing is more crazy than what OP or I am.. We'll change the whole world of mathematics to a base 3? I also accuse you of using wording and semantics, where above you basically called me wrong, then reworded exactly what I said and called yourself right...

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

When you say things like "when you reach infinity"...

Great, you don't like that statement, that's the whole_problem. Do you KNOW the answer to when we reach "infinity"? No, no nevermind we know, you think it's definition (the *concept* of) is defined by the institutions you have been taught by that say it's un-reachable, great.

Would you like another term to be expressed instead for said infinity, is that the whole problem here? You don't like that he has a different theory on what it really is even though you can't prove it one way or another? Suddenly that makes your mind think it's invalid because he raised the question? You don't want numbers, you want infinity to remain the enigma that it is because you can't think outside the box.

Just because you lack the mental capacity to ask such questions because your mind has completely limited you beyond where you currently reside, doesn't mean others don't have the right to raise them.

You have not proven anything, yet you keep acting like you're king of mathematicians that has proven the answer to infinity and beyond. Go ahead and think that "Buzz Lightyear". Just don't enter philisophical threads involving mathematics you can't grasp from your childhood math teacher and troll it with mainstream non-philisophical tactics. You have never truly participated in this thread IMO.

reply to post by PhysicsAdept


The reason your math is wrong is infinity isnt a number its a concept.in math its really only used in Infinitesimals to express the idea of objects so small that there is no way to see them or to measure them.Or the universe itself since again believed there is no limit. Infinity denotes an unbounded limit this is what i meant by its a concept.

As said earlier, infinity has no affiliation to numbers whatsoever,

but exclusively only to the concept of Eternity.

Numbers have their own innate beauty, logic, reason, function and purpose,

which, as mankind advance and progress further and further, will be utilized

more and more into the services of the harmonious, the clear and the simple,

the life-giving and to the eternal Truths.

Mankind is still in its infancy, still deeply immature, still dabbling mainly with

the chaotic destructive powers of Darkness, with lies, frauds and falsehood in

its wake; with inflated egos, haughtiness, self-admiration, self-importance and

self-praise being the main driving-force to this insanity.



Mixing in a muddling way infinity and eternity with numbers, makes the whole

thing into an ugly abstraction, rendering it all meaningless.

Hence the OP should seriously take a big step back, admit he's taken this thread

into the ridiculous and the infantile, lest his thread turns into a complete farce.

Cheers

Originally posted by UKLionheart

Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by UKLionheart

 

Would you say then, that .000000000000000000000000000000...1 equals 0?

Hahaha. No, because you can't have infinite 0 before the one. As soon as you put that one on the end, it is no longer 0., but with 0.999 going off into infinity, that's different!

Here's the proof of the0.99999 recurring thing:

Let's call x = 0.99999 recurring.

10 x= 9.999999 recurring

deduct x from both sides:

9 x = 9 therefore x = 1

therefore 1 = 0.9999 recurring.

Tralahhhhh!

The question isn't the math, its a logical question in relation to infinity as infinity is more or less an absolute value. So 10 times infinity minus infinity is a contradiction as 10 times infinity equals 1 infinity equals 2 million times infinity.

Again subtracting infinity from infinity is like subtracting a chicken from a horse.


Because 10x - x = 0.999r - x

9x = x (infinity stays the same at a given point in time)

Therefore infinity = infinity
Tralahhhhh!

Hasn't that crap formula been debunked like hundreds of time? Gosh I swear its like nibiru

Originally posted by kykweer

Originally posted by UKLionheart

Originally posted by PhysicsAdept
reply to post by UKLionheart

 

Would you say then, that .000000000000000000000000000000...1 equals 0?

Hahaha. No, because you can\'t have infinite 0 before the one. As soon as you put that one on the end, it is no longer 0., but with 0.999 going off into infinity, that's different!

Here's the proof of the0.99999 recurring thing:

Let's call x = 0.99999 recurring.

10 x= 9.999999 recurring

deduct x from both sides:

9 x = 9 therefore x = 1

therefore 1 = 0.9999 recurring.

Tralahhhhh!

"..... as infinity is more or less an absolute value."

Could you please enlighten us as to how this could possibly ever become a possibility?

Sigh .......

Cheers

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Wookiep

 

You can prove faulty reasoning and the incorrect use of concepts.

But if you are Physics thinks the reasoning is sound and concepts are valid to use as numbers...I would love the answers to these.

1/large = ?

1/small = ?

1/huge = ?

1/finite = ?

I had to laugh when I saw this.

My maths professor from year 12 taught my class to look at formulas in a similar way.

Think of x with a small, large, huge, neg small, neg large, neg huge value and plot a few points with each....concave up or down, etc...

Factorise if possible and solve for x to ascertain points of interest....local & global minima/maxima.

When you get a bit of practise doing it, you can graph most problems in your head just by looking at the formula.

reply to post by djeminy


If ∞ has no affiliation with numbers what so ever, then tell me what 1/0 is. To say that it is undefined is only one narrow aspect to the situation... 0 in theory would go into 1 an infinite number of times. AND the slope for a vertical line does not only approach ∞ in the limit, but also most logically meets it.

Then again, all of limits must also be useless because ∞ does not involve any numbers whatsoever...?

reply to post by djeminy


I may have miss pronounced the word, but what I'm saying is that infinity is the most "extreme" value.

My point is for example if I went the furthest I can't go further than the furthest.

So you can't have ten times infinity.

reply to post by djeminy


I may have miss pronounced the word, but what I'm saying is that infinity is the most "extreme" value.

My point is for example if I went the furthest I can't go further than the furthest.

So you can't have ten times infinity.

reply to post by PhysicsAdept


If u split an apple in half, and split half the apple in half and half of half then half of that half to infinity... Will there eventually be zero apple left?

I always thought that infinity was 10

let me explain.

If all numbers are a sequence of 10 numbers, like 1-10, .01-1.0 etc.
then 10 is the expression of infinity since it is also 1.

1.0-2.0 crosses 1.1,1.2, 1.3, etc

so when you reach 1.0 or 2.0 etc you are really at zero. any whole number is actually = to zero.

so any real number would have to be an incomplete form of zero.

an infinite number would just represent the loop of numbers in their natural progression.
what number does this better that 10 or 1.0

math was never my forte but I do like theories about math.

I always thought it would be a decent B-movie plot where a student accidentally discovered a flaw in pi or some other math theory that the monetary system used. If that flaw was exposed, it would bring some government money siphoning system down or it would provide a method to make cold fusion effiecient and free or something.

Have the government or Dept of Energy after the student.... bla bla bla.

For whatever it's worth, some modern programming languages treat 1/0 as infinity and 1/infinity as 0. You can try it yourself using a simple _javascript alert. The official explanation says this isn't really the case, and yet the functionality is there at the same time.

Originally posted by kykweer
reply to post by PhysicsAdept

 

If u split an apple in half, and split half the apple in half and half of half then half of that half to infinity... Will there eventually be zero apple left?

No. You'll never be able to get rid of the apple that way.

And of course you don't need to split the apple in half first.

just take a tiny bit of the apple and start splitting this apple

part in half from there on; as sooner or later you would have

reached this point anyway, had you started from scratch!

Cheers