Pulling the PTSD card

I would like to say that we can have this next part of the conversation like adults...

A civilized discussion, so to speak based on reason...
If you truly believe that I have some ocean front property in Arizona I am selling...

Let me frame the conversation




1) 9/11
In an unprovoked act of aggression, the us is attacked... with no declaration of war

casualties are 3000 plus
working Americans going about daily business/ murdered in an act of war



Taliban/ Al Queda claims credit for attack
all evidence points to Taliban/ Al queda
Taliban rules Afghanistan


Unless the official story is changed
or I am in charge and see said evidence myself
They attacked us...

2) US Soldiers dying

where are the agents of the Taliban/ Al Queda getting support
Sleep at?
Food?
IED devices?

Somebody is aiding them...That leaves the natives...
They are planting bombs and sniping us troops

it is called asymmetric warfare... when civilians pick up weapons and fire on troops then go back to hiding as civilians in day light....
then you cry foul...
Crying foul makes you a tool, a complete tool...

if the natives want us gone there was a simple way... QUIT killing US troop... STOP aiding the Taliban...
Otherwise, you wish to fight an asymmetric war so be it... the Taliban/al queda groups are sacrificing you not the US
You should have not allowed your leaders to order the Attack on the US
With all this in mind I have to continue this...

I fully support the troops...

Do you support the US troops?
Yes or No...

drop the hogwash of trying to say I support the troops but not.... the sentence ends at but...

Putting aside the fact Alcoholism is a disease.... (check it out for your self)

I will assume you are, if not a patriot, at least a decent human being...

By supporting the troops you are now committed to their health and well being...

You do support the troops right?

Let me assure your conscious... the DOD has no effective program to monitor PTSD because the commands corrupt it...

With your support of the troops you have to understand something...
They are not properly managed when it comes to mental health... they are left on their own without the tools to deal with it... this man has been showing signs of it... (excessive drinking is a sign you look for... lets call it a metric point)

now the lack of discipline on the DOD's part, is biting the DOD in the @$$

I have dealt with the issue too many times... the SGT sounds like he should have been benched for a few months with intense mental rehabilitation...

Now a million dollar piece of equipment is broken...

What should happen...

His commanding officer Should be court- martialed for dereliction of duty and 134s
His Senior most Senior enlisted person should be court-martialed for dereliction of duty & multiple 134s
The medical examiner that passed him CM for dod and 134's
The CO of the medical examiner cm for dod and 134's
senior enlisted of medical facility examiner cm for dod and 134's


no deals are to be cut all hard time and dishonorable discharges... also they are to face civilian charges once they are returned to the states

All quals stripped from the ones who trained them
His coworkers and bunkmates cm for 134's (sgt's)

allow deals for these sets

The man who did this... (if he did)
Three years mental facility, ( forcible re-enlistment if it comes about during this time) Discharge if he is releasable (3 yrs) with 100% medical discharge (honorable)

he will never be the same and to my knowledge there is no cure for PTSD... he is already in a prison he will never be free of...




It may not mean much but my pagan prayers go out to you Sarge.....

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by TheMindWar
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

And the sheeple wil believe this tripe.

Soldiers are subjected to psychotic drugs pushed my big pharma. This is where the problem lies IMO.

For what purpose? Damn, for my 28 years in the military and in everything since Panama I must have missed all this....

You didn't get the psychotic drugs? Heck, I bet you missed the plutonium shots too.

Some men enjoy the thrill of killing a fellow man, these men are called psychopathic serial killers, why must we argue any further. Hey enjoys killing other human beings, do we really want someone like that in society, no. This is why we have a death penalty, psycho's and cannibals.

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by nenothtu

 

What really irked me was the OP's callous way of portraying the whole situation. Calling for this mans death,before we even know the whole story. I think there are many victims in this story,even this mans family. There was really no need. If America and its soldiers are so barbaric,what does that make the OP,calling for this mans death ?

Its truly pathetic.

well, you have to understand that the OP has no regard for the rule of law UNLESS he can find a law that supports his agenda, and he is agenda-driven. It's only "innocent until proven guilty" if it's one of HIS guys in the hot seat, and Things only have to be thoroughly investigated if it's one of HIS guys on the chopping block.

If it's anyone else being prepared to ride the lightning, well, that's OK by him - damn the torpedoes, and full steam ahead! He doesn't give any more of a damn for the man's family, and what they'll go through and what they are NOW going through than he would for any of the rest of us non-islamic commoners.

Apparently this guy has no negative paperwork whatsoever.

It was his 4th deployment, and one he did not have a lot of a lot of notice for. He had received a tramatic brain injury and lost part of his foot during two seperate incidents while deployed to Iraq.

He also had just recently witnessed a close friend lose his leg and substained mortal injuries.

For what it's worth it seems the msm is positioning itself in favor of ptsd ....

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Originally posted by ripcontrol
1) 9/11
In an unprovoked act of aggression, the us is attacked... with no declaration of war

casualties are 3000 plus
working Americans going about daily business/ murdered in an act of war



Taliban/ Al Queda claims credit for attack
all evidence points to Taliban/ Al queda
Taliban rules Afghanistan


Unless the official story is changed
or I am in charge and see said evidence myself
They attacked us...

Unless I am sorely mistaken, Osama Bin Laden stated explictly that they did NOT attack the US on 9/11. Many many videos out there with translations that he did, however I think you'll find that the original tape states he didn't. That's just MSM for you, and you seem to be one of those that gobbles the sh*t up like it's candy.

You (the US) attacked yourselves.

Next point.. soldiers get paid a damn good salary knowing full well they may, if it's required, have to go into war zones. Boo farking hoo... If you don't want to risk dying, DON'T BECOME A F'ING SOLDIER.

It isn't rocket science mate, it's pretty damn simple. Heroes? I don't know, should I pander to societies ego and praise people for accepting a job that might get them killed and then crying because they do, no I don't think so, you know why? Because I don't agree with any of it.. I don't agree with the US's stance on the world political front.

In fact i'd go so far as to say the US needs to get it's butt kicked like it did in Vietnam to reel back it's inflated "Get er done" world police ego and stop it's government from thinking it has the right to police everyone.

As i've said before in many posts, i'll be laughing when you're all in FEMA camps wondering where your liberties went and how you all got there.

REMOVE THE BLINKERS there's a good lad.

T

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
CNN and other mainstream media are pulling the PTSD card trying to make people think this guy just 'snapped' etc.

And of course it's impossible for him to have snapped ... given the situation and all .. right? :shk:

I hope this guy gets death

I hope you get a clue.

He's stuck in an unending war and has had things go on around him and to him that could EASILY cause people to snap. Different people can handle different amounts of pressure. Obviously, given this fella's behavior before the incident and given what is going on, PTSD is very much on the table as a possibility for what happened.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
I have seen people die in front of me from bleeding out, using combat as an excuse to kill innocent people is not justifiable.

Goodie gumdrops for you. Not everyone is the same. Not everyone can handle things.
This fella had been in war too long. It finally caught up to him.
You are being judgemental about PTSD and you haven't got a clue about basic psychology.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
He did not snap, when you go door too door methodically killing women and children. It takes time planning and preparation.

A PTSD 'snap' doesn't necessarily mean someone instantly goes crazy and explodes all over the place. They can usually still function to different degrees but their heads are screwed up. Jeeeze ... you really need to learn about PTSD before you speak .. ya' know??

reply to post by FlyersFan


Ops Opinion might be a kind one for this man,if it meant him turning on his OWN troops...........

Thats what I get out of OP's twisted logic.

If we weren't over there to begin with, then this probably would have never happened.

Yes, it was this soldier's choice to be over there, to subject himself to all possible horrors. His insanity was the reason for his actions, not an excuse.

This is what comes of sending men over to "fight" endless battles for nothing...... for nothing.

"They call this war a cloud over the land. But they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say '#, it's raining!' - Ruby, Cold Mountain

I refuse to blame this soldier for losing his mind. Why not blame the people who encouraged him to sign up and go there? Why not blame the people who will never let us out of Afghanistan?

WTF?I'm a Combat Decorated Vet....Been Shot 3 Times....Your Adrenaline Is pumping @ 100%, Your Brain Is Processing @ Peak,Your Balls Are Tucked......I Don't Condone The Act, But A Head Injury,Your Good Brother Getting Chopped,Drinking Problem And Your Dets Causing Trouble @ Home.....He Shouldn't Have Been There

reply to post by starbrander


How exactly have you been shot three times by a 8MM and you are still with us? Unless you are counting the rounds hitting your armor.

reply to post by rebellender


That is a bit off taste, when the bodies of Marines did just that when the Government marched them out into the lake beds at US testing grounds. Knowing full well the outcome, just not the intensity of affect it would have. Many of them died horrible deaths later in life.

That is but "one" example both known and unknown.

Oh so he's wussing out on his actions now eh? Soldiers are just like police officers "GOTTA PROTECT OUR OWN KIN'" I just love to see the soldiers get special treatment.

If a civilian had committed these awful crimes they would have been burned at the stake.

reply to post by torqpoc


I've never heard of Osama Bin Laden denying the 9/11 attacks. Do you have a source you can link to regarding this statement?

PTSD..... get it? PTSD, something you have to live with everyday. Sounds, smells, time of day or night can trigger it. If you'v never had the flu, then you can't describe having the flu. If you don't have or never had PTSD then anything you say is fiction or speculation if you try to speak of what it is. I can fully picture the epesode and how it unfolded.... that doesn't mean I was there, rather an understanding of what goes through your mind prior to flipping out, and going into 'rage mode'. Not much different than road rage really. You have enough, and the next moron that f's with you is gonn'a die.... Mind you I'm not condoning it, no.... but I am saying I understand it. I have been subject to PTSD most of my adult life. When you face life and death and frustration, terror and the world is out of control............ you might just flip out too. So don't get on your high and mighty pompous soap box and tell me that you'd never ...ever.....ever ...lose control and flip, because if your that calm to every event, then.............you likely on prozac or far too stoned. People react, and it's not always a desireable outcome. So post traumatic 'after trama' stress as in uh 'stress' well that explains it, it's not just some acronym in a book. I hope he gets out of it myself. Sure he will need a bunch of counceling, but look what our country put him into..... And don't give me this 'he voluntered' junk. He did what most armchair comandos only run their yap about. I don't agree with the war, but then I think those willing to write the US government a blank check (his life) to defend and protect no matte the cost, well that is far more than most liberal scum are willing to do.

I believe he snapped. He will be tried by court marshal under ucmj. But his leadership failed him. The system failed him also. Most importantly he failed himself. He did not premeditate this in my belief. He was not in his right mind.

As i have experianced many horrific things in combat. I now at times find myself winding up for no reason at all. Such as in a complete calm meeting. Everyone present sitting in chairs. Proper inside voices being used. You i feel myself going into defend mode and readying to kill every one at the table. Now, before you say im crazy. Allow me to explaine what ive done to keep frim carrying this out. Ive gotten counseling, group therapy, and specialized emotional training. It was explained to me that high level trauma, repetative combats, and things of that nature very often cause these delusions. Medication and training cant help control it.

You have to get the help though.

In closing, this instance of snapping has always been present amongst combat soldiers through out time. The percentage is low though. If when a soldier snapped he/she painted pictures of baby seals. You would never here of it. However, the cause of this comes from combat. Which sticks with you. Somr can handle it, some cant,

And some are welllll walking a thin line.

Im not making an excuse for his actions. I am saying i know where the ability to do so comes from. At times.

reply to post by lokdog


Dear Lokdog,
Sure:
articles.cnn.com...:US

www.globalresearch.ca...

911review.com...

The problem is that all sources are as good as the other, so there are a ton stating he didn't like there are a ton stating he did. The video I saw released a few days after 9/11 had him stating he didn't, but the subtitles had been changed to state he had. Go figure.

Bush claims in the first article he was responsible, much like Iraq had WMDs, mmhmm.. who should we believe? =)

Regarding the OP: Death sentence is a bit extreme. Punishment yes, but it should also fall to his superiors to be punished for not noticing the chap was out of control, or potentially out of control.

FF - you seem to really love posts by the Professional, but from what i've seen your agenda is mired in religious/jewish-ness. You're just as warped as some here on the forums dear, so please don't pretend you're coming from a higher-than-though point of view, because you really aren't. You're as much an MSM gobbling freak as those you bash on a regular basis. Stones in glass houses dear, stones in glass houses....The hypocrasy and irony is just palpable.

T

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by KonquestAbySS
reply to post by Aeons

 

Traumatic events don't discriminate on location.

No, they do not which is why the overseas deployment argument is inexcusable, and flawed.

What a bunch of narrowly defined crap.
PTSD is more prevalent in combat zones and other theaters of operations. By your logic, serious auto accidents at the Indy 500 are inconsequential

edit on 16-3-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

If this was a Muslim soldier pulling this off you would have no problem calling for the gallows, what a bunch of pathetic hypocrites on this thread actually using the "understanding" card.

Or ANY OTHER soldiers, people...

Any Palestinian did this in Israel it would be time too bomb Gaza, Syria, Iran and whoever else , because NOONE there could possibly be gone insane, ALL of them are pre-meditated murder, unlike our "good'ol boys.

What a bunch of sick one-sided characters, you really are...

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Since I have PTSD I thought I would clue you in on what kind of toll this does to a person. I wake up in the middle of the night soaking with sweat. I relive my trauma everyday. I have to leave the grocery store in the middle of shopping and just get out of there. I cant handle being in large crowds. It never goes away. It affects everything I do, I say and think. Maybe you should read up on what PTSD is and stop wishing death on people. What this guy did was wrong. But the fact that you don't even have the slightest clue what PTSD can do to a person you sir just received the ignoramus of the day award. I bet if you had PTSD you couldn't go a day without killing someone or yourself. Ponder over that.

I appreciate this thread, although I totally disagree with you on what should happen to this soldier, OP. Going to war, taking part in killing and dying... seems to me the activity cheapens the value of life for the majority of those who engage in these activities.

I'm not a soldier or a veteran of the armed forces. I've known my fair share, though. I know guys who went to Vietnam and who still can't get a good night of sleep because of the night terrors they suffer. I've known guys who went to the desert and who got addicted to the thrill of the kill, the hunt, and now they're having a hard time transitioning back into civilian life.

What our military branches do to the minds of enlisted men in order to prep them for the task at hand in a hostile theatre is brainwash them to numb them to the realities of what they're about to endure. And then they get to go and experience horrors that most of us only dream about in our worst nightmares.

While none of this gives anyone a pass to lawlessly kill, I maintain every human life is sacred, and an eye for an eye only leaves the world blind. This man should be punished, humanely. He should be treated for his mental illness and punished for his behavior with compassion, despite the brutality of his crimes.