Pulling the PTSD card

Spoken like a true armchair general. When you see someone bleed to death in front of you, people getting blown apart, you still cant talk, because youre not this man. In fact, although I dont support his actions, I can realize neither of us can judge, because neither have seen war. If you want to judge hop over to Afghanistan, nut up or shut up.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I can assure that is balad. I was there in 2006 and in those same little white trailers. I was in the 777 C-130 squadron there. Though I didn't have the tighty whities....

That picture was taken in the courtyard at the fire station on the West side of the airfields. Across the street by the PX/BX and food courts, next to the church.

We may have been there at the same time, you and I. I was there from February to July I think.

reply to post by rebellender


Manchurian Candidate?

reply to post by rebellender


Here you go. This article lends credence to my theory. Bales was apparently a great guy -- a good father, loving husband, and a decent human being. Like I said, alcohol intoxication can make even decent people into crazed zombies, completely unaware of what they are doing, but still able to function while drunk.

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

Robert Bales, soldier from Lake Tapps, named in Afghan massacre
.......
"Other reports raised the possibility that alcohol played a role.

"On Thursday, a senior U.S. defense official said Bales was drinking alcohol in the hours before the attack on Afghan villagers, violating a U.S. military order banning alcohol in war zones. The official discussed the matter on condition of anonymity because charges have not yet been filed.

"Browne said his client's family told him they were not aware of any drinking problem — not necessarily a contradiction. Pressed on the issue in interviews with news organizations, Browne said he did not know if his client had been drinking the night of the massacre."

Originally posted by Thaxter
reply to post by rebellender

 

Here you go. This article lends credence to my theory. Bales was apparently a great guy -- a good father, loving husband, and a decent human being. Like I said, alcohol intoxication can make even decent people into crazed zombies, completely unaware of what they are doing, but still able to function while drunk.

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

Robert Bales, soldier from Lake Tapps, named in Afghan massacre
.......
"Other reports raised the possibility that alcohol played a role.

"On Thursday, a senior U.S. defense official said Bales was drinking alcohol in the hours before the attack on Afghan villagers, violating a U.S. military order banning alcohol in war zones. The official discussed the matter on condition of anonymity because charges have not yet been filed.

"Browne said his client's family told him they were not aware of any drinking problem — not necessarily a contradiction. Pressed on the issue in interviews with news organizations, Browne said he did not know if his client had been drinking the night of the massacre."

where did the alcohol come from?
If he have it others did/do so
more problems with alcohol would be apparent
in other places on the base.

Not Buying the Drinking binge

who knows....we sure don't..

Originally posted by Xtrozero

I can assure that is balad. I was there in 2006 and in those same little white trailers. I was in the 777 C-130 squadron there. Though I didn't have the tighty whities....

One night after we got done responding to an inflight emergency on a AC-130 in which a mortar attack started on us, and the AC-130 and crew, we were heading back to our station from across the runways.

We got permission to cross the runways, and as you know there are combat landings at night in which the lights do not get turned on until seconds prior to touchdown. The tower gave us permission in a big T-3000 , fully loaded with agent.

A landing AC-130 missed our truck by less than 10 feet as it flew overhead. Rocked our whole truck, which weighs about 130,000 lbs.

Thought I was a gonner. Nope. Still here.

reply to post by rebellender


Who knows where the alcohol came from? I am thinking the military wouldn't make this up . . . I don't think the military would want to further inflame nondrinking Muslims with a lie . . . on the other hand, I don't know. I'm just throwing out the theory for consideration. Robert Bales was described as happy, mild mannered, mature, and a good person. Sometimes the nicest people turn violent with alcohol . . . abusive, vicious,etc.

If it was alcohol fueled, I can barely imagine the nightmare he is living right now . . . waking up to discover you had done something like that in a black out! He's living a nightmare, in any case, no matter what the real story is.

reply to post by Thaxter

If it was alcohol fueled, I can barely imagine the nightmare he is living right now . . . waking up to discover you had done something like that in a black out! He's living a nightmare, in any case, no matter what the real story is.

very true words.
we will watch this one out for sure.

Originally posted by Thaxter
reply to post by rebellender

 

Who knows where the alcohol came from? I am thinking the military wouldn't make this up . . .

Services squadron. Even at some bases in warzones, so long as they are not under attack every day or week, can drink a couple of beers once a week. This incident will probably change that policy ... scratch that.. this incident probably has changed that policy.

At some bases I've been to (not many) we had "beer cards" handed to us the first of every month. And one night a week, usually a Friday or Saturday, in select parts of the base we could have 2 or 3 beers a night, and the services people would punch that card or sign or stamp it somehow. But, there were times people could find a way around this and get a little more alchohol, but usually not much. It usually meant using someone else's beer card and they just weren't using it.

Once during my deployments a young firefighter who headed back stateside sent a big bottle of tequilla back to the younger troops who were still deployed with us. Oh yes, we the upper management knew they were hung over and damn near worthless for work the next day. So what did we do?

We volunteered the entire Fire Department to wash down 6 C-130s in the 120 degree heat which took us about 9 hours using our fire trucks, hoses, and constantly refilling and reservicing the fire trucks. We worked till most of them puked. And then we worked some more.

Originally posted by ILikeStars


We volunteered the entire Fire Department to wash down 6 C-130s in the 120 degree heat which took us about 9 hours using our fire trucks, hoses, and constantly refilling and reservicing the fire trucks. We worked till most of them puked. And then we worked some more.

Kids have to learn lessons the hard way sometimes.......

Originally posted by rebellender

where did the alcohol come from?
If he have it others did/do so
more problems with alcohol would be apparent
in other places on the base.

Not Buying the Drinking binge

who knows....we sure don't..

I'm not saying drinking caused it, but alcohol can be had. It's illegal under Islamic law, but there are lots of folks around who aren't sticklers. I recall a few years back when some of the gents from Wackenhut's Armor Group got in a mess over a drinking party and forcing some Afghans to drink too, and got snatched out of the theater in a hell of a hurry, before the Afghans could get hold of them. As I understand it they got cashiered over that.

Same in Iraq - kids would run the streets selling bootleg arak. It can be got - where there's a will, there's a way.

Now with that said, there's an old saying that a drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts, so IF alcohol was involved it didn't cause the incident, it just facilitated it by dropping inhibitions against it.

Originally posted by nenothtu


Now with that said, there's an old saying that a drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts, so IF alcohol was involved it didn't cause the incident, it just facilitated it by dropping inhibitions against it.

Agree 100%

Regardless,this man has to live with this,for the rest of his life.

Thats a sad prospect.

reply to post by nenothtu


"it just facilitated it by dropping inhibitions against it"

This is so true. Although, I wonder if he would have even felt the urge to murder a bunch of civilians if he had been sober.

KIRO 7 news had a report tonight that Bales had rolled his mustang over in 2008 while drunk. He then fled the accident on foot. I'm having trouble finding news accounts that describe this. I did find this from the Herald Tribune:

"Court records show that Bales was cited for a misdemeanor hit-and-run incident in October 2008 in Sumner, Wash. He received a deferred 12-month sentence, and paid a fine of $250, which led to a dismissal of the charges.

"Records state that Bales was spotted on Oct. 11, 2008, running from an accident scene shortly after midnight on the Sumner-Tapps Highway. It was a single-car rollover accident, records state. No other drivers were involved.

"Witnesses reported seeing "a white male wearing military-style uniform, shaved head and bleeding," fleeing on foot and running into nearby woods. A police officer spoke to Bales, the owner of the car, who said he had fallen asleep behind the wheel."

Note that this account does not mention alcohol, although the reporter on television who looked at the documents stated clearly that apparently Bates was drunk when he rolled over his Mustang.

He had another incident earlier, in 2002, of apparent assault against a woman in a Tacoma hotel, and had to take 20 hours of anger management. It would be interesting to see if alcohol was related at all to that incident, in that it might draw a correlation between alcohol and aggression in this particular person, otherwise described as mild mannered and mature by those who knew him well. This is a very sad case because apparently Bates was normally a decent and very highly regarded person. All of his friends and neighbors are completely shocked.

reply to post by sonnny1


That's true. I'm not sure how anyone COULD live with having done something like that for long, but there are all kinds around. I know nothing about this guy, but as time goes by we'll see what sort of man he is by the way he reacts to it.

His reaction will say more than all the lawyers on the planet could say about him.

Originally posted by Neocrusader
reply to post by Afterthought

 

lol
Learnt from terminator 2
Oh my god lol
I laughed so hard a little bit of wee came out

I'm trying to remember T2's head shots. It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I must have missed that part. It wouldn't have been the T1000; it's preferred MO was running people through with stakes made from its' fingers. Ahnuld also gets told that killing is a no-no by John Connor.

reply to post by nenothtu


What really irked me was the OP's callous way of portraying the whole situation. Calling for this mans death,before we even know the whole story. I think there are many victims in this story,even this mans family. There was really no need. If America and its soldiers are so barbaric,what does that make the OP,calling for this mans death ?

Its truly pathetic.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by nenothtu


Now with that said, there's an old saying that a drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts, so IF alcohol was involved it didn't cause the incident, it just facilitated it by dropping inhibitions against it.

Agree 100%

Regardless,this man has to live with this,for the rest of his life.

Thats a sad prospect.

true words indeed

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by ILikeStars


We volunteered the entire Fire Department to wash down 6 C-130s in the 120 degree heat which took us about 9 hours using our fire trucks, hoses, and constantly refilling and reservicing the fire trucks. We worked till most of them puked. And then we worked some more.

Kids have to learn lessons the hard way sometimes.......

one time walking through the common area at Eskan I heard pop-pop-pop it was coming from a OP tower.....the supply Sgt put a box of spray paint up there using the room as extra storage. It was 134 that day, hot enough to cook off cans of spray paint.

Originally posted by Thaxter
reply to post by nenothtu

 

"it just facilitated it by dropping inhibitions against it"

This is so true. Although, I wonder if he would have even felt the urge to murder a bunch of civilians if he had been sober.

He may have had the urge, but probably wouldn't have acted on it. I know this because I spent enough of my own time trying to see if my soul was hidden in the bottom of that bottle. Fleeting irrational urges are just that - fleeting - unless there is a hook to hang them on and then they stick around. Add alcohol, mix well, and BOOM! The alcohol doesn't cause it, it just allows stuff that normally hides at the bottom to rise to the surface.

Note that this account does not mention alcohol, although the reporter on television who looked at the documents stated clearly that apparently Bates was drunk when he rolled over his Mustang.

The key word there is "apparently". There's no real evidence for it, but circumstantially, you don't run away from flipping a car because you fell asleep unless there is something else wrong you are running from - being drunk, dead license, dead tags, etc.

He had another incident earlier, in 2002, of apparent assault against a woman in a Tacoma hotel, and had to take 20 hours of anger management. It would be interesting to see if alcohol was related at all to that incident, in that it might draw a correlation between alcohol and aggression in this particular person, otherwise described as mild mannered and mature by those who knew him well. This is a very sad case because apparently Bates was normally a decent and very highly regarded person. All of his friends and neighbors are completely shocked.

You never know what really lurks in a man's heart until it slips out one day - regardless of what left the door open for it to escape. If it slips out too many times, someone has to apply some restraint. If he can't, we have to.

When i heard this i honestly could care less what the soldier "did" or people's opinions of it. Afghani's do have done and continue to do worse to their own and Americans and other foreigners in country.

When they start giving a crap about what their own people do then i might give a crap what mine do.