Pulling the PTSD card

Originally posted by ILikeStars

Originally posted by TrueInstinct
He needs to be fully checked over & diagnosed for PTSD.

But, by who ???

Doctors take an oath: "To do NO HARM" ... and this person's LIFE would depend on that diagnosis!!!

Doesn't anyone see the conflict of interest???

edit on 16-3-2012 by ILikeStars because: (no reason given)

I don't think a well regarded Doctor would put their reputation on the line for the possiblity that he would be given the death sentence. Surely he'll be diagnosed by 2 specialists in these circumstances?

You can't past judgement on this guy until you walk a day in his shoes. Most of you could not handle what this guy has lived through no better than he has. His government sent him there. It is responcible and its commander is Barrak Obama.

reply to post by ILikeStars


Then it seems that doctors aren't doing their jobs. What they should be doing is recommending to see if someone fits the bill or not...If already in theater of operations they should have follow ups every so often to determine if PTSD is becoming a huge factor that may cloud someone from making reasonable judgements that may be problematic in the future.

Originally posted by TrueInstinct
Surely he'll be diagnosed by 2 specialists in these circumstances?

It takes an entire team of specialists for a diagnosis, this I know.

Probably no less than 8 or even a lot more considering the circumstances.

Point is: All the doctors have still taken an oath to do no harm, in other words not do anything that would harm their patient. And, if a patient's life is in jeopardy and dependent upon a diagnosis, are they not oath bound to provide a diagnosis that would save their patient's life?

Originally posted by ILikeStars

Originally posted by TrueInstinct
Surely he'll be diagnosed by 2 specialists in these circumstances?

It takes an entire team of specialists for a diagnosis, this I know.

Probably no less than 8 or even a lot more considering the circumstances.

Point is: All the doctors have still taken an oath to do no harm, in other words not do anything that would harm their patient. And, if a patient's life is in jeopardy and dependent upon a diagnosis, are they not oath bound to provide a diagnosis that would save their patient's life?

man I dont think they will say "hang him, hang him high" they will say yes or no to his competence to stand courts martial and to what capacity is/was his mind


BTW, I Like Stars, how is it possible you were an AirForce Fire Fighter and dont know what an afsc571 is?

Originally posted by ILikeStars

Originally posted by TrueInstinct
Surely he'll be diagnosed by 2 specialists in these circumstances?

It takes an entire team of specialists for a diagnosis, this I know.

Probably no less than 8 or even a lot more considering the circumstances.

Point is: All the doctors have still taken an oath to do no harm, in other words not do anything that would harm their patient. And, if a patient's life is in jeopardy and dependent upon a diagnosis, are they not oath bound to provide a diagnosis that would save their patient's life?

It's obviously diagnosed differently country to country and differently in various organisations.

As for the oath, would you risk your career over it?

finally we get a name on the guy

U.S. military sources tell Fox News the U.S. soldier accused of killing 16 Afghan civilians is Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, who is being flown to Fort Leavenworth in Kansas

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
worldnews.msnbc.msn.com...

Updated at 8:01 a.m. ET: The case against the U.S. soldier accused of killing 16 Afghan villagers is "more political than legal" and the defense will likely focus on post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), his lawyer told NBC News on Friday. Attorney John Henry Browne, who is representing the soldier, said the suspect had been training to become a military recruiter after four tours of duty in Iraq but had been ordered to return to Afghanistan "overnight." "There will be efforts to paint him as a rogue soldier rather than focusing on how we treat GIs in general or whether we should be over there to begin with," he told TODAY’s Matt Lauer in an exclusive interview.

CNN and other mainstream media are pulling the PTSD card trying to make people think this guy just 'snapped' etc. That this was just a instant decision and that led to the massacre of the innocent Afghanis. Somehow that walking door to door with NVG on your head, and methodically killing everyone, putting them in a pile was not premeditated is preposterous. I hope this guy gets death

The architects of this phony war on terror are just as culpable for what this guy did as he is himself - the entire thing will go down in history as a stain on humanity but the ones who'll be largely forgotten are the men and women on the front line who paid the ultimate price with thier blood and frame of mind for this monumental folly.

Karma wise its not good to apoint yourself judge , jury and executioner in this case - afterall you have not walked a mile in that mans shoes ( to paraphrase a native american proverb ) so hang back with your condemnation please if you dont mind .

Tragically I dont think this will be a one off isolated case - these damaged minds are going to be coming home to what ? unemployment and homeless in many cases ? at least the WW 2 vets had the knowledge that they fought on the side of good against evil - that they helped save civilisation ,

Just what will the class of 2001 to 2013 have to steer thier moral compass by in civilian life ? Or to tell thier grandchildren ?

Originally posted by rebellender

BTW, I Like Stars, how is it possible you were an AirForce Fire Fighter and dont know what an afsc571 is

There is no 571 afsc. All afscs I know of have at least 5 digits in them.

I was a firefighter in the USAF. My afsc was 3E771.

3E7X1 - Fire Protection

en.wikipedia.org...

I was assigned to the 99th Civil Engineering Squadron at Nellis AFB.


It just so happens I do have a few pics from my tours uploaded here onto ats uploads:

Me and another firefighter at the Great Ziggurat of Ur, at Tallil Air Base outside of Nasiriyah, 2003:


At the same base that same year here is a picture of Tom Green and I:


This one was taken in 06 I think, at Joint Base Balad, Iraq (and sometimes I use it with this caption for rebuttals to people being rude):




As for afsc codes that begin with "571" there are no such listings for anything fire related on the wikipedia page for afsc list: en.wikipedia.org...

The only Air Force Specialty Code's that begin with 5 are paralegals and chaplains' assistants.

reply to post by ILikeStars


AF firefighter afsc 571xx 30 or 50 or 70 if you were one you would know what I was talking about because I was one


fire protection career ladder

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by calnorak


I wouldn't worry too much. Most of the comments I've read from the professional are anti-American. I can't tell if its anti American government or if he is misguided to think that all Americans are evil.

It's not just the OP. Just read some of these posts.
Then go and search the Ft. Hood shooter threads.

There were so many bleeding hearts there that I needed paper towels just to see my monitor!

Real double standard.
What I say? What is good for the goose, is good
for the gander.
The sympathetics were coming out of their
cold dark sewer holes supporting that terrible
man..

Originally posted by rebellender
reply to post by ILikeStars

 

AF firefighter afsc 571xx 30 or 50 or 70 if you were one you would know what I was talking about because I was one

fire protection career ladder

edit on 16-3-2012 by rebellender because: (no reason given)

After having spent 11 years of my life as a firefighter in the United States Air Force I cannot remember one time I ever became familiar with any Air Force Specialty Code for firefighters that was not a 3E7X1. The X stands for level of training.

Air Force Enlisted Job Descriptions

3E7X1 - FIRE PROTECTION

Specialty Summary: Protects people, property, and the environment from fires and disasters. Provides fire prevention, fire fighting, rescue, and hazardous material responses. Related DoD Occupational Subgroup: 495.

Duties and Responsibilities:
usmilitary.about.com...

Were you a firefighter prior to 1993? I think that is the last time they overhauled the Air Force Specialty Codes.

reply to post by ILikeStars
A 7-level, huh?

Congrats. MSGT?

I got stupid and after my E-5 got demoted to an O-1.

Wife's an RN. Screening TBI's to be specific.

Originally posted by rebellender
reply to post by ILikeStars

 

AF firefighter afsc 571xx 30 or 50 or 70 if you were one you would know what I was talking about because I was one

fire protection career ladder

edit on 16-3-2012 by rebellender because: (no reason given)

Your link leads me to a page that is dated:

Report Date : 28 APR 1978
oai.dtic.mil...

Your arguement is invalid. Your reference is 34 years out of date.

I was a firefighter in the United States Air Force from 1998 to 2009.

reply to post by beezzer


TSgt (briefly) then medically retired.

I was Station Captain at Nellis Fire Department through much of the 2000s, when not deployed, or Station Capt. at one of the outlining stations, we had 4 altogether.

Originally posted by ILikeStars
reply to post by beezzer

 

TSgt (briefly) then medically retired.

I was Station Captain at Nellis Fire Department through much of the 2000s, when not deployed, or Station Capt. at one of the outlining stations, we had 4 altogether.

edit on 16-3-2012 by ILikeStars because: (no reason given)

I did many TDY's to Nellis!
We used to watch football games at the sports bar on base, the losers would have to sing whatever we got them at the karioke bar (same place) after the games.

Imagine a 6'6" guy belting out "Like A Virgin".

Originally posted by forevertruepatriot
Although i dont condone what this soldier did, and i dont feel he should be let off without being justly punished for his actions. I do want to express something to you. Are you a soldier? Have you served in combat? Have you ever been shot at? do you know what its like to go to bed knowing there are people hunting you, planning your death at every possible minute? have you ever witnessed a person that is as close to you as humanly possible get shot and bleed out begging for help? I doubt you can answer yes to ANY of these questions. I, on the other hand can. PTSD, while not an excuse for EVERYTHING is a real disorder that results from the above listed situations. I have known too many friends that have returned from down range that have PTSD and its not pretty. Most have not done anything like this Sgt. Did, but i know several who have enacted violence on themselves or have come close to enacting violence on other people. It screws with your mind and makes the line of whats right and wrong VERY hard to differentiate.

Are you a soldier: Yes
Have you served in combat: Yes
Have you been shot at: Yes
Have you witnessed someone bleeding out begging for help: Yes

What this soldier did was not some PTSD episode, it was a planned out event. He didn't just wake up one night and snap, he had to plan to get off base alone(if thats what happend), and he had a plan for what would take place when he arrived in the village.

This will sound wrong to those who dont understand, but I remember the feeling of wanting to unload cases of .50 cal ammunition on an entire village because everyone, literally everyone in the village knew we were about to be attacked and we got no warning. Was it wrong? Yes. Did I do it? No. These feelings came after the event. I only share that little story to let people know that sure crazy thoughts happen over there in war when people are 'hunting' you. At the same time, the actions of this soldier have nothing to do with being stressed or 'hunted.' You seem like another one of those people on the team of "oh poor soldier he was just stressed because he saw people die and call for help, its ok we will get him some pills.'

I doubt most of you are so forgiving of the people who have had bombs dropped on them for 10 straight years...and soldiers kicking in their doors..constantly in fear of their own lives..and that is just the current occupation by foreigners..what about when they crack and kill a soldier? Will you blame it on PTSD?


Peace

reply to post by ILikeStars

my apologies I am old and was a little busy with another in your era of service mos....sorry its a tight group I think you would understand

reply to post by rebellender
In his defense, I held 3 different AFSC's in the Air Force and a different MOS in the Army.

To tell you how confusing it was, I once made a label with that OD duct tape that said "Squadron Punk Ass Bitch" on my office as a joke.
At that same time, my Col. was walking by.

He stopped.
He looked.

He nodded.

And kept walking.