The Bible and the war against God's true and only work.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Duh! Geeeez, you're just figuring this out now!

*nothatwasmebeingmyusualobnoxioslyflippantself*

reply to post by CaptainNemo

Originally posted by CaptainNemo

Michael S. Heiser ...Have you checked out any of his websites?

Yes, I did look at 2 or 3 sites he runs, only briefly though. After finding out that the majority of the "truthers" such as David Icke, Jordan Maxwell, Ryan Dawson, Eric Dubay, Acharya, Ben Stewart, Mitchell Aguilar, Russ Kick, etc. all believe that Jesus and God are myths, it is a relief to find some actual TRUTH for a change. This has led me to begin compiling a list of beliefs for various authors. BTW I linked to the video by Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj about The "Watchers" because I am convinced that Sundar and his teachings are THE authority on this controversial subject.

I have only just started reading The Facade so I am very curious as to what Heiser's beliefs are concerning some of the key issues.

reply to post by LaughingatHumanity


I love how people all quote that the Bible is so diluted by everyone just for coercion's sake.

Have you ever actually read the Bible? Have you ever pondered why this book wants you to follow a benevolent life style and give you inspiration for what this reality is all about? There is no coercion about the book. The book was originally written by the divinely inspired, and yes it has been interpreted, but the same message is there. I don't see anything throughout the entire Bible that leads me to think I'm being a puppet.

It states, if you follow these guidelines, your life will be wonderful, and you will make others' lives wonderful as well. THAT SURE SOUNDS LIKE SOME REALLY BAD STUFF, WE SHOULD PROBABLY DENY ALL OF IT AND ACT PROUD AND STUBBORN JUST BECAUSE.

I don't understand why this book offends so many people on such a wide scale. It takes just as much faith to turn to Atheism, and takes just as much faith to say science is the reason. The thing about science is, is that it explains the how... but science will never explain the why. EVER. PERIOD. The Bible is for the why. Science and God are hand in hand. They are meant to supplement each other. This reality is so complex that we will never define it ourselves.

We can talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, but we are diluting reality just as much as you all claim the Bible is diluted. You state their is no God, just like someone may argue that God is the key and you should fear him. What is the difference? You act like it is such a difficult subject to handle but you're doing the same thing on the faithless spectrum.

If you really want to know God, you need to approach him on a personal level. People will talk and interpret the words how they feel, and they may misinterpret it and in turn make you negative toward God. But God wants you to listen to him one on one. If you truly follow the words, as you read them, and truly seek him into your life, you will find him. But if you continue to ridicule, and not give any of the writings a chance, you will never truly know.

This life is really complex, and we kind-of create our own reality... which is way too much of a privilege. All I know is that this book is so ancient it's ridiculous. It may have been reinterpreted, but if you actually read the words instead of look at bogus sub-graduate college student papers after they just took Philosophy 101, you're not going to lead a compelling argument as to where God is. Make it a personal endeavor and take it seriously.


Side note - I also took a trip down Atheist lane, and have studied much of the world's philosophy and lived as though there were no God... so I also have given the other side a chance, so don't take me as some hypocrite saying these words. It's just not the truth.. I've known something deep down my whole life, and a world of resentment and selfishness is not the truth. I'm sure you can live a peaceful life going on your own, but why skip out on the greatest gift you've ever been given?

reply to post by Myollinir

I don't understand why this book offends so many people on such a wide scale.

Because it tells us exactly how depraved and wicked we are before a Holy and Righteous God. And that causes extreme cognitive dissonance with folks who grew up hearing from mommy that they were an angel, and that they should have self-esteem and pride, and it's a good thing and not an evil one.

For the love of me I can't fathom why it is we have such high pride and ego and self-esteem, but we have such low morality. Go figure.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Wow that's a really interesting point. Mr. Dawkins loves to argue that we created God for the need of meaning after we die, or a fear of dying. But what about this point?

In counterpoint - Atheists create no God because of selfish pride and bigotry. They feel the need to be superior in a universe where humans are EVERYTHING BUT ALL KNOWING AND PERFECT. We will never be a supreme being and we will never understand the universe, but many people think they know the meaning of life just by looking at observable reactions. What about the unobservable?

Nice thread.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Okay, let me see if I understand this correctly, have patience please. So because of that we trade in our crosses dedicated to Tammuz for a symbol with the star of Moloch in it?

Like I said earlier, makes perfect sense, perfect sense.

It does make perfect sense, especially if you paid some attention to how I discribed it. Recall it is the symbol for: "one who has at least started the correct journey to salvation" That Journey of teaching just begins with the Baptism. But in your church, it appears the stewardship my be the reason for the anti-Christ's rise.

It is a symbol that represents joining into the spiritual learning issues leading to the light, and is associated with what happens after Baptism as that association with Jonah. Jesus trained his followers to be the Fishers of Men. In doing this process they teach the bad with the good so that people can learn the moral perspective and when they cross the dividing line between that which is called good and that which is deemed Satan.

The Bible's Narrative is supposed to do the same thing as one sifts through the moral examples there and slowly builds up the knowledge to see why Revelations is coming into play because the Christian Church failed to do what the Jesus Messianic Symbol is mean't to explain in a symbolic fashion that was popular with alchemists and even Pythagoras. Parts of the Bible have complex allegory that none of the present day Christians get correct.

Just because the Star of David (which has good and bad associations) is included in the rise up the chain of knowledge toward salvation and the discussions of the moral issues that divided good and bad, does not make the entire symbol bad as it is about learning the good and bad and discussions of both sides to arrive at the higher realm for that which is good and consider divine inspirations of God by man.

That you don't seem to instictively know this from looking at it tells us a lot, perhaps you attend the church of the anti-Christ, which failed to follow that rather explicit higher road forumula of Jesus. Christ says that he is the way, and that is his alchemical formula for that way. It represents the study to follow for salvation better than the Tammuz / Constantine Cross. imho

Those that hang out the sign of the Cross don't know the way and follow in lock step into the abyss and the lower realm.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by CaptainNemo

 

The first collection of the five books of the old testament was called the pentatauch, and was written around the 7th century B.C. ( Somebody hop in and correct me if i'm off).

Yeah, you're off brother. The Babylonian captivity began in the first part of the 7th century BC, that's the time of Daniel/Ezekiel/Jeremiah. Moses was a solid 7-800 years before that. The first ever recorded secular reference of Israel is on the "Stele of Merneptah" c 1213 BC. By that point in time the Hebrews nation was already in the land of Israel, therefore the Exodus must have transpired previous to that point in time.

Daniel was captured in the first siege of Jerusalem, Ezekiel was taken in the second siege. And Jeremiah was lucky, he escaped capture and stayed in Jerusalem as a prophet of God there. Ezekiel was the one in Babylonia. Daniel would have been older, Ezekiel was captured when he was 25.

edit on 16-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I didn't mean that Genesis,Exodus,Leviticus,Numbers and Deuteronomy were written during that time. I meant that they were compiled into a collection.

I had a nice map of all the Jewish exiles, I think it's on my other computer, but the charger connector thing won't work :/

reply to post by Murgatroid


Look at some of this material. I don't think there is a real authority on the topic of watchers, but Heiser is also quite the expert on the subject.


gods of the nations

thedivinecouncil.com...

the Bible explicitly says, that the watchers are the gods of the nations. (Duet.32:8 & Genesis 10:32)

If you want to study the watchers, you're going to be reading alot of non-canonical material. You're also going to have to be able to connect the dots. The Bible tells you how they came about, and what their position is then you have to apply that concept to world events, especially since we're living in the end of days.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Myollinir

 

I don't understand why this book offends so many people on such a wide scale.

Because it tells us exactly how depraved and wicked we are before a Holy and Righteous God.

No. Because it tell us all there is a god that we cant see or prove exists who commands we follow it's rules.

The only thing a christian can prove exists about all this is the book or stories and rules and they tell everyone they have to live a certain way or else.

That is why. it offends so many.

reply to post by Garfee


Your thinking old testament friend. There is nothing, including following all of God's commands, that will make us good in his sight. According to what I believe, all our righteousness is nothing but filthy rags in comparision to the Righteousness of the Lord.

As far as doing it this way or else? There or only two ways: God's way and man's way. That's it. There is no
"or else," you live acording to your own standards or you live acording to God's. God made it totally possible if not simple to choose his path (although actually carrying it out is more complex.)

It is rather bad to see so called Christians struggle with the meaning of this symbol, as it appears it was endorsed by James and Jesus and reprent the teachings of Jesus and the Essene. How can anyone mistake the meaning of this most imporant sysmbol from Christendom..





Click the image and pull it up, anyone can see for themselves its primary importance for Jesus religion.

The Solomon's Seal clearly shows the symbolic connections with the underworld from which people need to be saved.

The Seal also shows that it is connected to higher calling, going into the light of knowledge and truth.

I certainly speaks to the duality of the Seal of Solomon and one has to know how to sort these dual issues of heaven and hell, and this was what the Morals of Jesus taught and this was his Symbol, it contains the omnipresent truth of the Jewish religion.


It is amazing this most important symbol Jesus has been burried deeper than Jesus, because the so Called Christians can recognize that is the essence of the Jesus Message. Raising people from the abyss, teaching them the schooling that it takes to rise up toward the ideals of Heaven. The Essene and Jesus most important effort was to make Heaven Upon the Earth with the teachings of the highest truths for keeping the human condition from explopitations of Satan.


A symbol that should be held in highest esteme in Every Christian Church these people of the Cross don't even know about, simiarly they don't even know in many cases the required knowledge of the Essene. Knowing the Jesus theme and going into the light of higher truths require learning about the Essene moreso than the Pharisee and Sadducee elements for Evil.


If your church teachest these appreciations for the symbols of Evil, then find one that knows better. Print the real cross and stick it on your Bible's Cross to cover it and be proud to explain to everyone that this is the Symbol of Jesus's teachings to raise people from Hell and move theme into the light of Heaven upon the Earth. Show your finds how the symbol explains in symbolic form that the Jewish religion contained elements of Heaven and Hell and that symbol is all about the proper schooling as they move beyond the Baptism experiences.

Put down the graven image Cross and respect the symbol for Jesus.

Originally posted by MarlboroRedCowgirl
reply to post by Garfee

 

Your thinking old testament friend. There is nothing, including following all of God's commands, that will make us good in his sight. According to what I believe, all our righteousness is nothing but filthy rags in comparision to the Righteousness of the Lord.

As far as doing it this way or else? There or only two ways: God's way and man's way. That's it. There is no
"or else," you live acording to your own standards or you live acording to God's. God made it totally possible if not simple to choose his path (although actually carrying it out is more complex.)

Ah, but there is an "or else!" Otherwise, there would be nothing to keep the 'flock' together. If there is 'God's' way, or man's way, what happens to you if you follow man's way?

If, as a non-christian, I follow man's way I am automatically dammed - according to the Bible - to eternal suffering. That's not 'free-will' - that's a threat. Your God didn't give man free-will, he/she/it/3.14 gave man no choice at all. If he/she/it/3.14 is all knowing as some claim, then those who follow man's way are doing exactly what is expected of them. To punish people for doing what you expected them to do (i.e. programmed them to do) is not in any way loving. It's spiteful, cruel, and hardly becoming of a deity. No wonder there's all that vain "thou shall have no other gods before me" rubbish.

If man (and I use that word to mean humankind) acts according to instinct (i.e programming) - as animals do (and they are above all this judgement, apparently) - they will succumb to the perils of being-exactly-who-they are. To make something in such a way that they will act in such a manner, and then damn them for it, is really not something of which any deity should be proud (unless it is, and all gods are/were like that - in which case, you will completely understand why I have no time for them). It's not big, and it's not clever.

Man's way is perfectly unacceptable to your God. Why would an all knowing, all seeing god feel the need to make something that would break all his/her/its/3.14 rules so readily unless he/she/it/3.14 enjoyed punishing them?

reply to post by MagnumOpus

Just because the Star of David (which has good and bad associations) is included in the rise up the chain of knowledge toward salvation and the discussions of the moral issues that divided good and bad, does not make the entire symbol bad as it is about learning the good and bad and discussions of both sides to arrive at the higher realm for that which is good and consider divine inspirations of God by man.

It's not the star of David. HELLO!!!! Do you not even give a crap what Amos and Acts says about that "star of David". I'll give you a clue, it doesn't say "David" anywhere in either of those two verses.

Moloch, Chiun and Remphan are all names for the star god, Saturn, whose symbol is a six pointed star formed by two triangles. Saturn was the supreme god of the Chaldeans.

The hexagram was brought to the Jewish people by Solomon when he turned to witchcraft and idolatry after his marriage to Pharaoh's daughter in 922B.C. It became known as the Seal of Solomon in Egyptian magic and witchcraft. David had absolutely nothing to do with the hexagram and that star most certainly did not, in any way, represent God's people. Solomon gave himself up to satanic worship and built altars to Ashtoreth and Moloch (Saturn).

Here.

Did you even watch the video? Hell, it's not that long dude. I've wasted more of my time than it takes to watch that video replying to this post alone.

reply to post by CaptainNemo

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I didn't mean that Genesis,Exodus,Leviticus,Numbers and Deuteronomy were written during that time. I meant that they were compiled into a collection.

I had a nice map of all the Jewish exiles, I think it's on my other computer, but the charger connector thing won't work :/

hey, no worries, i was trying to help. When you find that lemme know, I'd like to have a copy.

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Myollinir

 

I don't understand why this book offends so many people on such a wide scale.

Because it tells us exactly how depraved and wicked we are before a Holy and Righteous God.

No. Because it tell us all there is a god that we cant see or prove exists who commands we follow it's rules.

The only thing a christian can prove exists about all this is the book or stories and rules and they tell everyone they have to live a certain way or else.

That is why. it offends so many.

Well, I was speaking for myself as to why I hated the Bible before Jesus saved me. You very well may have your own opinions and reasons.

No. Because it tell us all there is a god that we cant see or prove exists who commands we follow it's rules.

So do all the other "holy" books out there.

We're talking about why people hate the Bible so much.

The only thing a christian can prove exists about all this is the book or stories and rules and they tell everyone they have to live a certain way or else.

DO NOT listen to those people, the gospel isn't "Do this or that or else.." The gospel is "Jesus did it. It's done. Trust Him."

Originally posted by Badgered1
If man (and I use that word to mean humankind) acts according to instinct (i.e programming) - as animals do (and they are above all this judgement, apparently) - they will succumb to the perils of being-exactly-who-they are. To make something in such a way that they will act in such a manner, and then damn them for it, is really not something of which any deity should be proud (unless it is, and all gods are/were like that - in which case, you will completely understand why I have no time for them). It's not big, and it's not clever.

Man's way is perfectly unacceptable to your God. Why would an all knowing, all seeing god feel the need to make something that would break all his/her/its/3.14 rules so readily unless he/she/it/3.14 enjoyed punishing them?

edit on 16-3-2012 by Badgered1 because: (no reason given)

Men are not entirely animals, we do not act according to simple instinct. We weigh right from wrong, consider alternative routes, and have empathy. Humans are the only creatures that can have these qualities. We are also the only creatures who kill, maim, and rape. Which set of behaviors is being "human, exactly-who-they-are?"

God did not create us to rebel against him. He gave us the choice to love him. If your wife or your child had no choice but to love and adore you, what kind of a relationship would that be?

Hell is not eternal torment through some torturous method. There is no fire-and-brimestone hell. The hell described in the Bible is an eternity without God, which is the ultimate misery. God is alive and working in this work in this world weather you admit it or not. He is not alive or working in Hell.

I did not become a Christian because I was afraid or hell or because I wanted to go to heaven. They were the least thing on my mind. I became a Christian because I trusted Jesus, through no coercion or threats, but blind faith.

Originally posted by MarlboroRedCowgirl


Men are not entirely animals, we do not act according to simple instinct. We weigh right from wrong, consider alternative routes, and have empathy. Humans are the only creatures that can have these qualities. We are also the only creatures who kill, maim, and rape. Which set of behaviors is being "human, exactly-who-they-are?"

No other animals kill? Mink regularly kill for no real survival reason. Cats too. Most pack animals will.
None maim? Ever seen an upset wolverine? Elephant seals? No?
None rape? Bonobos? No? Your average dog out in the park?
Empathy? Never have a pet lick your wounds for you?

Not true.

I would like to point out also, that the 'weighing of right and wrong' isn't a Christian trait. It's human. Christianity/religion doesn't have the monopoly on morals.

I'm a human. I am exactly who I am. I don't have a need for your deity.
Was that his/her/it's/3.14 plan for me?
I'll live quite happily for eternity without your god, since that appears to mean I'll get to have a bit of peace.

reply to post by Badgered1


Outta curiousness, are you atheist or agnostic?

I ask, because I agree with what you've been saying (the give and take between you and MarboroCowGirl).\

I am agnostic though. Basically, I think it's possible that a Deity Exists and it's possible that a flying blue smurf cloaked created everything, and it's possible that a pink elephant created everything, and it's possible that nothing created everything because there is no nothing, as it's possible that (insert anything that cannot be dis proven).

Technically, I am theist-leaning agnostic, meaning that I think it's (again, this word) possible some sort of deity created this universe, and maybe some other created that deities universe.

Anyhow, not to off-set the thread... Just curious if your a atheist or agnostic or...?

Originally posted by Myollinir
reply to post by LaughingatHumanity

 

I love how people all quote that the Bible is so diluted by everyone just for coercion's sake.

Have you ever actually read the Bible? Have you ever pondered why this book wants you to follow a benevolent life style and give you inspiration for what this reality is all about? There is no coercion about the book. The book was originally written by the divinely inspired, and yes it has been interpreted, but the same message is there. I don't see anything throughout the entire Bible that leads me to think I'm being a puppet.

It states, if you follow these guidelines, your life will be wonderful, and you will make others' lives wonderful as well. THAT SURE SOUNDS LIKE SOME REALLY BAD STUFF, WE SHOULD PROBABLY DENY ALL OF IT AND ACT PROUD AND STUBBORN JUST BECAUSE.

I don't understand why this book offends so many people on such a wide scale. It takes just as much faith to turn to Atheism, and takes just as much faith to say science is the reason. The thing about science is, is that it explains the how... but science will never explain the why. EVER. PERIOD. The Bible is for the why. Science and God are hand in hand. They are meant to supplement each other. This reality is so complex that we will never define it ourselves.

We can talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, but we are diluting reality just as much as you all claim the Bible is diluted. You state their is no God, just like someone may argue that God is the key and you should fear him. What is the difference? You act like it is such a difficult subject to handle but you're doing the same thing on the faithless spectrum.

If you really want to know God, you need to approach him on a personal level. People will talk and interpret the words how they feel, and they may misinterpret it and in turn make you negative toward God. But God wants you to listen to him one on one. If you truly follow the words, as you read them, and truly seek him into your life, you will find him. But if you continue to ridicule, and not give any of the writings a chance, you will never truly know.

This life is really complex, and we kind-of create our own reality... which is way too much of a privilege. All I know is that this book is so ancient it's ridiculous. It may have been reinterpreted, but if you actually read the words instead of look at bogus sub-graduate college student papers after they just took Philosophy 101, you're not going to lead a compelling argument as to where God is. Make it a personal endeavor and take it seriously.


Side note - I also took a trip down Atheist lane, and have studied much of the world's philosophy and lived as though there were no God... so I also have given the other side a chance, so don't take me as some hypocrite saying these words. It's just not the truth.. I've known something deep down my whole life, and a world of resentment and selfishness is not the truth. I'm sure you can live a peaceful life going on your own, but why skip out on the greatest gift you've ever been given?

edit on 16-3-2012 by Myollinir because: (no reason given)

But you haven't experienced that gift or you would not have the need to fear god.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

It's not the star of David. HELLO!!!! Do you not even give a crap what Amos and Acts says about that "star of David". I'll give you a clue, it doesn't say "David" anywhere in either of those two verses.

Did you even watch the video? Hell, it's not that long dude. I've wasted more of my time than it takes to watch that video replying to this post alone.

We all know the Christians are a messed up lot who don't understand old world religion, not even the issues of Moses and Alchemy from all his staff's and snake symbolism from the beginning of the Bible's narratives. Such carries into a general vapidity of the issues that you so well represent. You don't even begin to understand the story of Moses.


The Star of David came from the use of the interlock triangles on the shield of David. David was the one that brought the Ark of the Covenant back into vogue. David used the Ark with the issues of killing the Giant down in the valley, that no one else would tackle. When one looks at that story even the Giant tells that David didn't fell him with a tiny pebble. The power of the Ark was used to shape David as a more worthy leader that got things done and the story of the killing of the Giant brought David into prominence and later King.

Thus, David was so impressed with the secret power of the Ark that he started to build the temple theme, and Solomon finished up and made the special secret of the Ark the Holy of Holies. Solomon certainly wondered how the Ark worked, so he looked into the alchemical methods. One can find some of the Star of David things in Kabbola.

The Interlocked triangles links back the alchemical issue of the Ark and its power to kill, if needed. In the times of Moses there was a octahedron crystal that formed in the bowels of the Earth's volcanic areas that had some rather special chemical power as a poison. Calcium fluoride forms nice looking Octahedron crystals around volcanic magma chambers. Moses spoke to the issue of a Burning Bush that burned but there was no flame. Around Midian was a highly volcanic area associated with what we call the East African Rift Zone today. A Bush that burns without fire in this area speaks to the releases of sulphiric acid from a vent under the bush. Acids burn, but without fire. Moses found acid, which had useful purpose for him. In the old times it was Oil of Vitrol.

All Moses had to do was toss some little calcium fluoride crystals in oil of virtol and he had a poison gas which works just like the thing Moses used in Egypt. When one looks into these octahedron crystals of calcium fluoride one sees the interlocked triangle effect, and the Star of David was about this effect of the Ark. David revived the Ark, and Solomon was trying to figure it out. For David it was a shield and it is still used in the Tomb of David today. It is a sign for power and it is well associated to the Ark's secret power to kill.

So, that symbol links to the issues of the Ark, which is a central thesis from Moses to Solomon for the power of the Ark of the Covenant. It was such a powerful theme for the Egyptians their pyramids were built using that crystal's octahedron shape. Most unlocked the crystals power with fire and heat, but Moses did the same with acid or oil of vitrol. Even the Romans used the toxic power of this effect to cause walled cities to surrender.

Moses started the alchemical methods of the Ark, and they were not that complicated, just a simple science today. But one that alludes the Christians that can't see beyond their nose. Thus, they worship the sign of Satan with a Cross and don't ever learn what nature taught Moses, and how it was simple sciences behind what Moses worshiped as a highly special power of nature as a way to gain slaves freedoms and to David to fell a Giant.

Christians are so vapid of higher thoughts, they don't even understand the story of Moses. Let alone the associations to the Shield of David and Seal for Solomon. Both David and Solomon had interest with old Egypt over this worphiped shape. Sheba's area is perhaps were the Ark is buried these days.

What we see from the Christians is that they cannot even inspect the area of Midian and look for the special powers of nature in this area and be able to think beyond the brain dead issue of omissions of the sciences Moses was finding from this area of volcanic effects. Too many Christians think the Moses Mtn is in Sinai, but as the Bible Narrative tells, the Moses Mtn is near Midian in Saudi Arabia and it still sits there today, complete with lots of the Archelogical evidence. One can even find stone pillars that Solomon erected near there to mark the Red Sea crossing site, and if one studies geology one can find a land bridge effect due to volcanic effects.

But, what do we see from the vapid suggestions of the Evil Cross worshipers but too look anywhere and everywhere but the correct areas. Geometry unlocks the secrets for the Ark of the Covenant, and it is the octahedron shape the Egytians worshiped, the Star of David shape that he considered his shield, and the Seal of Solomon for the Temple that housed the Ark. Missing that is like missing the most Holy of Holies for the whole theme of religion from Moses down to Solomon.

But what did one expect from those so vapid of religion as to worship the Cross of the sign of Tammuz, the Pagan Signs from Constantine. Christianty these days is the anti-Christ----totally corrupt to the inner core and an insult to the memory for Jesus. imho

Christianity today is nothing greater than Elmer Gantry preaching for money, and they don't even include the Essene's issues, not even the highest power of Moses Mtn issues and how Moses found how to unlock the toxic powers of chemistry. Christians today churn out a bologna that rejects the grinder due to such unpalatable impurities due to their brains turned to stone with a cross on their foreheads, which is the sign of the antichrist.