Evidence for the Spirit/Soul

reply to post by masqua

When my OBE happened, it scared me so much that the only thing I could move was myself back in my body.

Seriously.

I didn't flow back in... I slammed.

Now, about moving objects during an OBE... could you please tell me, or, better yet, show me some evidence of that? I've never heard of it before.

I too have been "slammed" back into my body, and on one occasion I was forced to crawl back into my body. Once during an out of body, or Astral Traveling session I happened to drift by something metallic and saw myself. I looked like a ball of energy, blue, red, orange, yellow, and other colors, about the size of a baseball. There was a time when I could do this almost at will, but of late, I seem to be prevented from doing so. I have ventured into several places where I was not supposed to be.

I have to laugh at people when they say there is no such thing as a Spirit, or that the Soul can be destroyed.

reply to post by masqua


nevermind...better this way

reply to post by masqua

Originally posted by masqua
Now, about moving objects during an OBE... could you please tell me, or, better yet, show me some evidence of that? I've never heard of it before.

"many OBEers claim that they were able to see rooms into which they had never been, describe accurately people they had never met, or move physical objects during their experience." LINK

Keith Experience 4/23/11 Immediately when I tried that I rotated and I was freed from my physical body. I went downstairs and was followed by my child who came downstairs. As a joke I threw some of the pillows on the couch to see if she would notice and she did.… I was able to move physical objects.

115. Beverly M Experience 2/3/07 I was anxious to prove to myself that this was a valid experience, so I looked for objects they I could check on in the physical state. Once out the window, I headed for a large tree at the side of the yard. I examined it closely in every detail, but saw nothing unusual. I spotted some broken pieces of a clay pot in the yard then glided back into my bedroom. I attempted to turn on the light switch. Although I could move the switch to "on" and hear it, the light failed to respond. LINK

Astral body observed during exteriorization

The Society for Psychical Research has a great number of cases of OBEs on record. One of the most interesting involved the person experiencing the out of body state being actually perceived as if in the flesh by another person:

Mr Landau reports that in 1955 his wife-to-be told him of her OBEs. One night he gave her his diary and asked her to move it to his room during her next OBE. Early the following morning he saw her apparition which backed out of his room across a landing to her room. He watched while the apparition vanished into her body sleeping on the bed. When he returned to his room he found her rubber toy dog which he had last seen on a chest of drawers beside her bed, lying beside his bed. When questioned about it she stated that she had felt uncomfortable moving the diary as she had been taught as a child never to handle other people's letters and diaries" LINK

I have attempted to visit friends as well as family members. The only thing I witnessed that I would not know about is the property I mentioned above with the barns and ponds. I always felt this was coincidence, but I admit it makes me think a little. I have moved physical objects while in OBE but they are not moved when I come out of it.LINK

it can be known through experience. which will never be proof to a sceptic. im not sure you can get there with logic as someone stated before. higher dimensions of thought are hardly logical.

reply to post by Akragon


Let's get gory for a minute. It is widely accepted that the soul goes off to parts unknown when the body dies. So, let's open a man's chest and replace his heart with a mechanical one. The real heart stops beating in the surgeon's hands. But the man is very much alive. Did the soul leave? I think the majority would answer: No, the soul did not leave.

So, the soul is not connected to the heart.

Now, let's put another man on life support. The heart is still beating with the assistance of a heart monitor, only this time we remove the man's brain. Blood is still flowing, keeping the muscles oxygenated. The body is still alive. Did the soul leave the body? If we say, no, the soul did not leave, then there is no soul. Where is it if not in the heart or brain?

If we say, yes, the soul did leave the body upon the removal of the brain, then that's where the soul is (or rather, was).

Now the question is, what part of the brain is the soul in? With another poor victim we start cutting away parts of the brain that isn't involved in just keeping the man alive. I believe what we have left is the core of the brain right at the stem of the spinal cord. If the soul exists, THAT'S where it is.

reply to post by jiggerj


The soul is never in the body or the brain. The brain and body are in it.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by jiggerj

 

The soul is never in the body or the brain. The brain and body are in it.

Oh I see. We're all walking around in a soul bubble. First I ever heard of this delusion.

reply to post by jiggerj


Actually i don't know where the soul/spirit exists.... i've heard many theories...

Personally the one that i believe holds the most truth is this...

Our soul is 7 spiritual bodies that compose the whole... each coinsides with a chakra within your physical body

The reason i believe this to be true is because i can actually see the second spiritual body... which is weird because i can't see spirits or "ghosts" or anything out of the ordinary.

The second spiritual body exists only millimetres from the skin... IF you look closely you might be able to see it as well... maybe not, i don't know...

Look at the edge of your hand for example... make sure there is something black behind it (makes it easier to see)... and if you look very close you might see a VERY faint white line around your fingertip or the edge of your hand...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Actually i don't know where the soul/spirit exists.... i've heard many theories...
Personally the one that i believe holds the most truth is this...
Look at the edge of your hand for example... make sure there is something black behind it (makes it easier to see)... and if you look very close you might see a VERY faint white line around your fingertip or the edge of your hand...

Sort of like when a weatherman is standing in front of one of those green screens and his outline just seems different somehow?

reply to post by jiggerj


hahaha... no no...

This is Extremely faint... barely visible...

but you get the idea though

reply to post by Akragon

Would this be considered the aura?

reply to post by Xaphan


I believe "auras" have colours...

This is white, and extremely faint... Most people that can see Auras see vivid colours around a person depending on their mood or their inner "balance"

Like i said i don't know why i can see this "spiritual body"... a gift perhaps? *shrug*

I've never seen anything "supernatural" in my life...

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by jiggerj

 

The soul is never in the body or the brain. The brain and body are in it.

Oh I see. We're all walking around in a soul bubble. First I ever heard of this delusion.

Everything (including body and mind) appears within consciousness.

When you are asleep and you are dreaming everything is made of dream. There are no real things as such but there is experience happening, there is consciousness.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by jiggerj

 

The soul is never in the body or the brain. The brain and body are in it.

Oh I see. We're all walking around in a soul bubble. First I ever heard of this delusion.

Everything (including body and mind) appears within consciousness.

When you are asleep and you are dreaming everything is made of dream. There are no real things as such but there is experience happening, there is consciousness.

edit on 27-5-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Ummm, yeah. Inside your head. ???

For those that believe the bible is "Gods word"... Lets take a look at what "God" has to say about the existance of life after death...

1 corinthians 15

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.



John 11

21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.

22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.

23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?



This is not included in all bibles... but none the less...

I was given a sound body to live in because I was already good." (Wisdom of Solomon 8:19-20)


More to come...

I happen to be reading through Luke today... and thought this passage would add to this thread...

It begs the question... Who are we really?


15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

16 And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:

17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?

18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.

19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.

20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

22 And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.

23 The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment.

24 Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls?

25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?

26 If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?

27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

29 And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

30 For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.

31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

I was going to name Duncan Macdougall but someone already did. :S

It was in 1907.

reply to post by Akragon


I think that the soul can exist because of a mixture of both science and religion. I heard a long time ago that energy cannot be destroyed only changed (or something like that) and, also, neuroscience has stated that the brain lights up with electricity in different areas depending on what the person is doing.

So If our thoughts are electricity and that electricity cannot be destroyed, than perhaps that is our soul. Or, think about this, maybe we started out as purely electrical beings and our more advanced ancestors decided that having a body for reproductions sake, could benefit them. That could be why we were told to be fruitful and multiply, and why that instinct is so ingrained into the species of the earth. So perhaps that is really what religion means when they speak about the soul.

reply to post by StarsInDust


Thanks for your reply, and welcome to our forum

I haven't seen this topic in quite a while... and im honoured that your first post was in my thread!

It seems that "electricity" is actually the place where the transition between the soul and the body happens...

When it comes down to it, the body is nothing more then meat with electrical signals running through it, but it also must be more considering "frankensteins monster" isn't actually possible...

It seems electricity can revive a body, or strengthen the signals of a dying person, yet it can't bring the dead to life... nor can it make something that was never alive to begin with suddenly have life.

Good stuff though... hope you enjoy yourself here

reply to post by Akragon


I certainly would like for the topic of the soul to be rejuvenated. Your reply was insightful, in the many years that I have had this idea, I have never related it to the Frankenstein monster, perhaps I should have, after all, it was indeed, brought back by electricity, but( as you said) we never have gotten that one to work...YET.

However, I think I like the alien connection better, having us and our ancestors flitting around the heavens like little fireflies, from beginning- till the end of time,(except for the short period of time that we are assigned to the Earth) is beautiful and mind blowing at the same time.