Evidence for the Spirit/Soul

My question to anyone who reads this thead is this...

DO you believe the soul/spirit exists?

Its something that humans have pondered all through out history. Is there a soul/spirit? The quesiton is asked in religion, music, science, art, and almost every other form of litterature and media...

Perhaps as a large "informed" comunity we can explore this topic, and maybe even come to some conclusions on the subject...

Please keep in mind i am NOT presenting Proof in any way... only speculation on something i KNOW exists. You do not have to believe me... some things are true regardless of belief

I attempted to explain the body as a vehical in This Thread... that didn't work out too well. In this thread i will cover other peoples opinions on the matter... and welcome all opinions of our community as well...

Is There Scientific Evidence Of A Soul?

There is no substance known to man, either within the human body or the lab, that will produce intellect. To scan the brain, as some scientists have done, with an imaging device and track down the parts of the brain that come into play under certain intellectual pursuits is not the same as isolating a substance that produces intellect. We may know that the brain is the seat of the intellect, but that says nothing about what intellect is or what substance, if any, produces it. A rough analogy might be, determining what part of an engine contains combustion says nothing about how fuel is produced or where it comes from.

Upon dissection of the human brain, aside from some jelly-type matter, nerve fibers and perhaps neurotransmitters, all of which come into play in our thought and motor functions, there emerges not a shred of evidence of a substance that produces a sense of humor, the appreciation of art, or the ability to differentiate between good and evil. Even if not the precise method, at least a clue as to how these human qualities are produced would, I think, have been in order at this advanced stage of the twenty-first century. But nothing! Zilch! This seems to fly in the face of the principle a "whole is equal to the sum of its parts:" whereas the human brain seems to be the seat of consciousness, its biological components do not seem to possess the potential of producing such a quality.

Is it possible that "consciousness" actualy is a separate entity and has no physical roots? And can it's effect on humans be taken as proof that such an entity exists? "Black holes," despite the fact that they cannot be directly detected, are universally accepted as science.

A black hole in astronomy is a celestial object of such extremely intense gravity that it attracts everything near it and prevents even light from escaping. Because light and other forms of energy and matter are permanently trapped inside a black hole, it can never be observed directly. It can only be detected by the effect of its gravitational field on nearby objects. Yet, as undetectable as they are, black holes are considered as real and as scientific as planets and stars.

In the same way, consciousness can be "proven" to have its own existence by the effect it has on humans, giving them qualities such as reasoning abilities, appreciation of art, humor, etc. Unlike a black hole, however, since we cannot prove the existence of any physical substance or process that can produce such features, consciousness takes on a unique existence -- an effect without a physical origin. Call it what you will, but this precisely coincides with the age-old concept of a "soul."

greenj.wrytestuff.com...

Science can not explain the reason for life, or what consciousness is... We can not create intelligents...

I am a physicist and I would like to invite you in the site of the “Center of Scientific Divulgation about Consciousness”:

xoomer.virgilio.it...

where I analyse the incongruencies of the materialistic conception of the mind, on the basis of our present scientific knowledges about brain and matter.
This analysis points out how the laws of physics prove that the brain cannot generate consciousness, which existence implies the presence in man of a unbiological/unmaterial element. The problem of consciousness is then strictly connected to the one of the existence of the soul and, consequently, the existence of God.
In the first article entitled “Mind and brain...” you can find a general discussion of the mind and brain problem from a scientific point of view.
In the second article entitled “Scientific contraddictions in materialism”
you can find an explanation of the fundamental inconsistencies of the typical arguments used by materialists, such as the concept of emergent, macroscopic or holist property, complexity, information, etc.
In the section called “FAQ: answers to visitors' questions” you can find the answer to many typical questions, such as "Are there any scientifically proved miracles?", "Does the existence of the universe imply the existence of God?", "Can science explain God?", "Can science establish which is the true religion?", "Can science explain consciousness in the future?", and many others.

Almost all religions acknowledge the existance of a soul as well...

Christianity

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Gnosticism

Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the kingdom."

They said to him, "Then shall we enter the kingdom as babies?"

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

Buddhism

Buddha asserted that what keeps us bound to the death/rebirth process is desire, desire in the sense of wanting or craving anything in the world. Hence, the goal of getting off the Ferris wheel of reincarnation necessarily involves freeing oneself from desire. Nirvana is the Buddhist term for liberation. Nirvana literally means extinction, and it refers to the extinction of all craving, an extinction that allows one to become liberated.

Though Buddhists don't believe in a soul, they do believe in something that is not of this material world... Buddhists in the comunity, feel free to correct me.

There is a lot of opinions on this matter from every side of the arguement. So again the question i ask to you is, do you believe the soul exists? Or do you believe once we pass, thats the end of the line. Not even blackness, just Non-existance...

The idea of Non-existance boggles my mind personally... but i've had my own proofs of the existance of the soul which i will not discribe here. I believe everyone gets little "hints" from varous things through out their life...

The Door is realization...

And the key to that door... is love!

The door is Realization but the Key is Logic.

Is there such a thing as a Soul? In the sense that the Soul is the child creation of the Creator/Source, Yes!

But where is your Soul?

But to answer that correctly, you must first know where you are?

Ribbit

In the late 1800's There was this doctor, (I can't remember his name) who measured the body weight of of a dying patient before and after death, the patient lost exactly 21 grams of weight after death. He did this to four more patients and they lost exactly 21 grams of weight. Yes , I truly believe we have a soul.

I personally believe there is a soul from my own experiences through mediation and OBE's etc. A "soul" in today’s perception is misleading though in my opinion, the "soul" is an energy the physical world has been based upon. It is always changing and probably the source of an infinite amount of other realities besides our own.

Proving the existence of the soul is however a difficult task, I do not think science will get to a stage where souls could be proven considering we still do not even understand our own oceans or deep space. Until then we can call find the answer for ourselves in mediation.

This is how I see it after my own personal experience....

The energy that is you, call it soul if you like or spirit it is the same, that energy is ongoing and never ending, it can not be turned off it is never destroyed, and it can certainly be enhanced to amazing proportions.
To exist here your spirit/soul/energy borrowed matter, her matter, to be here now as you are.
Your energy is free to be whatever it chooses, always has been.
There is opposite to pure energy which is only a problem with the choices we all make, when you make the right choices for your energy, since you are in control of that energy, your energy/spirit/soul benefits from this.
When you make decisions physical/mental/spiritual counter to this, then your own energy/soul/spirit gives you hints on how to get back to being just so or may even deal out something nasty to really get the message across.
Some can communicate with their own spirits/energies/souls you are your own personal police for yourself, others can't hear/feel/see it if they aren't ready to.
It takes time and a lot of personal quiet reflection time to hear your energy,and being honest with yourself too but wow!
Every energy on the planet has it's own choices, and it's my belief you will be made to question yours when your matter has had it's time and your energy is ready to move on again, if not before that.
I don't know about anyone else but when you've cleaned your house ( energy/spirit/soul) and forgiven yourself, which you were always allowed to do, it will become a lot clearer in all things, as there is nothing else.
I would recommend it to any one who's willing to explore themselves.
Allowing yourself to be free is the first step, thinking you deserve it is a must!
No fear of love and being loved, other people can show you your energy/spirit/soul too, just in case you can't see it, there are reminders everywhere.
There is a him and there is a her, between then we are us and we are them, their love is unconditional in the true sense of the word.
That's just my thoughts


X
Amanda

I will put this out there again with a smile, for no one ever comments on my experience, as it seems too alien perhaps, or just not in the vein others think with. It also is outside of organized religion as I don't embrace any of those. I have done OBE's and seen others, met some life forms that stay hidden from me. In fact that part of myself is not my true soul, for I am no wiser in that form than this, just a duplication of sorts.

A year or so ago in my efforts to waken to what I really am, I woke up to a high pitch sound and then with the next thought, I was "taken out of body"! At least two beings were with me and I looked back towards my body and saw there, a white, light being, my soul. If a white light could smile, it was and it was full of a knowing. I received a simple explanation as always, brief. "That is a sacred thing".

This last year I saw it again more in human form in great stress as it suffers when we do, but it was gathered up by a great force of love, again I was awake when this happened.

There is more, but the soul is us and we are but fragments of it or something greater, damn hard to determine. Again, I expect this explanation to not be thought about, but seeds are now and then manifested into something greater.

Originally posted by bdb818888
In the late 1800's There was this doctor, (I can't remember his name) who measured the body weight of of a dying patient before and after death, the patient lost exactly 21 grams of weight after death. He did this to four more patients and they lost exactly 21 grams of weight. Yes , I truly believe we have a soul.

Dr. Duncan MacDougall was the guy...

www.snopes.com...

He did several experiments apparently... and documented a "sudden loss" of 21 grams at the moment of death...

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by bdb818888
In the late 1800's There was this doctor, (I can't remember his name) who measured the body weight of of a dying patient before and after death, the patient lost exactly 21 grams of weight after death. He did this to four more patients and they lost exactly 21 grams of weight. Yes , I truly believe we have a soul.

Dr. Duncan MacDougall was the guy...

www.snopes.com...

He did several experiments apparently... and documented a "sudden loss" of 21 grams at the moment of death...

So your saying the soul weighs something? Like it is a material object/substance in/on the body? That is new to me, I always thought the whole idea of a spirit/soul was to find self identity beyond the physical body.

People claim the strangest of things when defending their precious beliefs.

Well, the soul doesn't necessarily have to weigh 21 grams. If it was some sort of negative energy its presence could cause gravity to slightly increase and decrease when it leaves. It could also possess a sort of bond with the earth and it gets sucked back down into the earth when it unties from the body.. That is not the same as it weighing something but it would effect a scale.

You will never weigh the soul, dissect it or ever contain its 'substance' within a test tube.

Ain't gonna happen, folks, because if you want to find your soul, then you will need to put the material world aside and study the otherworld of dreams and nightmares, fantasies and deep fear.

In other words, you will need to understand your inner selves rather than all that which your senses perceive.

The fact that a metaphysics of the mind was supplanted in the nineteenth century by a metaphysics of matter, is a mere trick if we consider it as a question for the intellect; yet regarded from the standpoint of psychology, it is an unexampled revolution in man's outlook upon the world. Other-worldliness is converted into matter-of-factness; empirical boundaries are set to man's discussion of every problem, to his choice of purposes, and even to what he calls “meaning”. Intangible, inner happenings seem to have to yield place to things in the external, tangible world, and no value exists if it is not founded on a so-called fact. At least, this is how it appears to the simple mind.

www.marxists.org...

eta
btw... that link is a good read in its entirety

The soul could be bound to the earth by a geomagnetic bond and this would explain his evidence. If a person is standing on the damp ground without shoes does the aura change? Gravity could also be a geomagnetic bond. Has anyone actually really measured another planets gravity with a lander or satellite or are they basing it on theory alone? The moon is different, it is bonded to the earth and it's fields are different.

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by bdb818888
In the late 1800's There was this doctor, (I can't remember his name) who measured the body weight of of a dying patient before and after death, the patient lost exactly 21 grams of weight after death. He did this to four more patients and they lost exactly 21 grams of weight. Yes , I truly believe we have a soul.

Dr. Duncan MacDougall was the guy...

www.snopes.com...

He did several experiments apparently... and documented a "sudden loss" of 21 grams at the moment of death...

So your saying the soul weighs something? Like it is a material object/substance in/on the body? That is new to me, I always thought the whole idea of a spirit/soul was to find self identity beyond the physical body.

People claim the strangest of things when defending their precious beliefs.

Perhaps you missed this line in the OP...

Please keep in mind i am NOT presenting Proof in any way...

Im not defending anything my friend... thats not the point of this thread, im simply asking a question to the reader...

reply to post by masqua


"You will never weigh the soul...." That's pretty absolute, Super Moderator.

What's your authority? What problem do you have with MacDougall's findings?

The aware project is supposed to try to test if Near Death Experiences are real. In hospitals, they hide words above patient's beds. The ones who recovered from cardiac arrest were interviewed to see if they saw the word.

This study has been going on for a very long time. The results were supposed to be out a long time ago but the study was expanded. Last I heard they were due out late 2011 early 2012. They are keeping the results very secret.

If even one saw the word, this would be scientific evidence of life after death.

Originally posted by Cataclysm"You will never weigh the soul...." That's pretty absolute, Super Moderator.

What's your authority? What problem do you have with MacDougall's findings?

My authority is an Oobe. I was weightless.

The problem I have with the 'weight of the soul' is that it is only related to the urgings of the 'Spirit of the Age', in that the scientific community requires that no thing may exist which is not material.

(imagine Madonna's Material Girl video here)

This is also why dreams and subjectivity of any kind are generally dismissed.

reply to post by masqua


Your reply is nonsensical. Are you trying to be flippant? It certainly reads as if you are.

My question is: why would a moderator get involved with a thread in the manner you have? How have you advanced understanding on this subject? a subject some find interesting.

Are you a debuker? Your posts on this thread certainly indicate it.

Why would ATS have a debunker act as a moderator?

And, I'll ask you again, WHAT PROBLEMS DO YOU HAVE WITH MACDOUGALL's experiments?

God is not a universal belief, some languages don't even have a word for God, however... the belief in a spirit or consciousness is something that is universal in all human societies, some societies can even talk to spirits and they all see and hear the same thing. Just look at the Piraha tribe!

There is or was a scientist in Russia, I think his name was Korokov. He did a lot of work with GDV Bioelectrograph Photography, which method based on Kirlian effect. He used GDV to photograph what he said was images of the soul leaving the body at the moment of death. I remember seeing some of his work years ago and it was pretty convincing, at least for me.

I became interested in the matter after an injury I suffered in which I was shot in the side of the face and actually was dead for several minutes. I vividly remember to this day all of the details of what I saw and felt while I was dead, and upon becoming concious again I was immediately let down.

While my body was dead I was totally aware that I was still my self but it was a different awareness than I ever felt. The moment I died I was surrounded by a soft light, not a bright light but more what I describe as a soft, cloudy, all encompassing light that was coming from every concievable direction. I was surrounded by 4 figures, 2 on each side of me and slightly above me that had no real form other than their facial features.

I remember knowing that even though I had just been shot and gravely injured, I was still alive and in perfect (spititual?) health. I also had no real form that I could make out just a sense of being, more so than I have ever felt before. In fact when I was brought back I felt less complete than I did in what ever form I was in while where ever I was.

It took me quite a while to come to terms with what had happened to me, and I don't mean the injury I suffered. I asked myself a lot of times if it was due to oxygen deprivation or a dying brain, but I know it was actually a fully awakening of my conciousness that I witnessed. After my experience I became extremely interested in OBE's and NDE's and read a lot of books and did a lot of online reading about proof of the spirit or soul.

I just did a search and found this thread from 09 on ATS about a russian study of soul photography:
Russian scientist photographs souls leaving body at death

Originally posted by Cataclysm
reply to post by masqua

 

Your reply is nonsensical. Are you trying to be flippant? It certainly reads as if you are.

That could be related to your own perception on the 'matter' of a soul. I had an Oobe, it was unforgettable and I was floating weightlessly above my body. this is why I do not believe that the soul has mass.

My question is: why would a moderator get involved with a thread in the manner you have?

What manner are you talking about and why does my status of moderator matter?

How have you advanced understanding on this subject? a subject some find interesting.

I posted my opinion on the soul and, just so you know, I have not only been interested in all things spiritual, but have often posted on topics just like this one.

Are you a debuker? Your posts on this thread certainly indicate it.

I am not a debunker of the existence of the soul, but I do not believe the soul contains matter or mass.

Why would ATS have a debunker act as a moderator?

I don't know how you come to such conclusions. Perhaps you should just put in a complaint against me and stop going off the topic. I am NOT the topic here.

And, I'll ask you again, WHAT PROBLEMS DO YOU HAVE WITH MACDOUGALL's experiments?

This: www.snopes.com...

Please read it all, because it is what I agree with

I'd just like to take a moment and thank everyone here for keeping my thread alive...

There is abundant evidence for the existance of the soul...

Anything anyone can add to this evidence is much appreciated

Be love