"180" Movie - A Few Minutes that may change your mind about Abortion

Sorry, I got to 7:05 and just got too disgusted.

Okay, I am not German, but I spent most of my life in Germany, so forgive me if the hitler crap ruffles my feathers.

I am sick and tired of every body using the nazi scheiss as propaganda to further their own ideologies. It only hurts everyone! It does nothing good to keep this up!

We should all know the history, yes absolutely, but beyond that...please let it go, do not use it to push a pro/anti abortion debate!

If you want people to reconsider their stance on the abortion issue find another more constructive way to get the point across.

Maybe I missed something by not watching the whole thing.....but that just proves my point.....you can't throw something like hitler at people in the first 7 minutes and expect people to watch the next 20....

Sorry, I try to be really patience and understanding of people's opinions and thoughts, even if I decide to disagree with them, but this was just terrible IMO.

Originally posted by SubAce
Hello. This is my first thread on AboveTopSecret. I've been here a couple of years but only recently registered. I did not know I could not make a thread until 20 posts, but after about a month I've reached the threshold.

Many people have friends or family who are pro-choice. Perhaps some of you here reading this are as well. Many of you who are and those who you know who are pro-choice have no moral backing for their standing, but rather have it because of what they have been trained to believe because of society in general. I've did a search for this video and could not find a thread about it, so I am sorry if there is one already, I couldn't find it, and certainly didn't see it.

Here is a wonderful documentary that is a must see in my opinion for everyone that may really open your eyes about what abortion really is:

I could take exactly what you said there, and replace "pro-choice" with the word "pro-life" and it would actually make more sense. see, watch;

"Many people have friends or family who are pro-LIFE. Perhaps some of you here reading this are as well. Many of you who are and those who you know who are pro-LIFE have no moral backing for their standing, but rather have it because of what they have been trained to believe because of society in general."

Oh well I must agree with that statement sir. The point of pro-choice doesn't mean you're pro-killing fetuses, it means you're pro-giving individuals their own freedom to choose what they want to do in their specific situation. Pro-choicers don't condone murder, they condone freedom though. Have you ever been raped by a drug addicted aids infested mexican? NO?! Then how do you know what you would do in a situation where you were impregnated with his baby? Pro-choice gives those individuals who are in extreme cases like this the right to termintate their pregnancy. The science behind it is actually quite simply, the human embryo doesn't receive it's pineal gland or its gender until 7 weeks. This coincides with the tibetan and egyptian book of the dead where it is said that spirits spend exactly 7 weeks in the bardo-being state after and before each life, and it is also stated in those books that in each reincarnation the spirit remains masculine or feminine. This corresponds with Descartes theory that the pineal gland is the seat of your actual soul, and that you don't receive a human soul until 7 weeks after the sperm has entered the egg. When the pineal gland does appear at the end of 7 weeks, coincidently, so does the gender! Too many synchronicities to go unnoticed here. That is why it has been my beliefe that if you prevent certain processes from taking place before that 7 weeks is up, you're not really terminating a life. That sperm in the egg is NO DIFFERENT than the MILLIONS of sperm you kill every other day on your crusty tube socks. The only difference is that is is temporarily in a shell for a while. Preventing that sperm from becoming human could actually be a positive thing in the universe if the parents dont have the means to give that human a good life, or if they're not responsible, drug addited, poor, etc. Open your mind, pro-choice simply means giving people their own choice, morals are of no question to the government and should be left up to be decided by the individual in their own life situation.

reply to post by Mijamija


The hypocrisy of the right never ceases to amaze me. They cry out for small and limited government until a woman wants to make a private biological choice with a doctor.

Right wingers whine about tyranny and fascism when the government ignores the Constitution. Then they turn around and beg for government intervention when two people love each other in an unconventional relationship.

Religion was invented thousands of years ago by primitives. Religious values,. it doesn't have to make any sense.

reply to post by SubAce


And here is one question that takes 3 seconds to ask that makes anti-abortionists wonder wtf it is exactly what they are doing.


They are demonstrating against abortion yet they never thought about it themselves for even 1 second. Makes you think.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by SubAce

 

Question: when is it ok to kill a baby in the womb?

Answer: any time before the baby develops consciousness.

If you think the moment the egg and sperm fuse that Human consciousness is spawned, you are just naive.

And if you think consciousness comes after development of body, you are extremely arrogant and an idiot.
Just like life comes from life , consciousness comes from consciousness.
It's other thing the consciousness increases with time from the moment union occurs.
Even the sperm and eggs are conscious, that's why enlightened ones always taught not to waste it.
You may ignore it justify your lust, but truth is truth and it hurts dear...

Originally posted by deepankarm

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by SubAce

 

Question: when is it ok to kill a baby in the womb?

Answer: any time before the baby develops consciousness.

If you think the moment the egg and sperm fuse that Human consciousness is spawned, you are just naive.

And if you think consciousness comes after development of body, you are extremely arrogant and an idiot.
Just like life comes from life , consciousness comes from consciousness.
It's other thing the consciousness increases with time from the moment union occurs.
Even the sperm and eggs are conscious, that's why enlightened ones always taught not to waste it.
You may ignore it justify your lust, but truth is truth and it hurts dear...

That's rubbish. Please provide proof that the egg and sperm are conscious (legitimate, peer reviewed scientific research).

Hey isnt the whole motto of abovetopsecret.com ... deny ignorance people before you post to this thread please whisper to yourselves deny ignorance over and over before you click the reply button.. and if you think you about to post something that promotes your ignorance then click preview and reread you comment...

If we are to outlaw abortion then we should also outlaw any medical aid in childbirth; you can kind of argue that abortion is murder, but before modern contraceptives, technology, and healthcare came into play the infant mortality rate was rather high; it helped keep the population down.

Overpopulation is a major issue, us having made the world into a living hell is another major issue; no child should be born into the world at its current state, to do so is to is to do the child a great wrong. Rather than murder, you are endorsing suffering and slavery.

I'm not pro choice, I'm pro abortion. Do not have children, for their own sake. The gift of life is no longer a gift, but more like a punishment. Nobody should be forced into experiencing what we consider modern life; it is absolutely disgusting. If there ever was a god, it has abandoned us, and is probably too busy throwing up in a bucket at the thought of what we've become to pay us any heed.

People are always missing the point about abortion. The argument is not about whether somebody is killing a living thing, or even a thinking, feeling thing. Of course that's what's happening. Yeah, it's murder. That's a given. No argument.

The argument is about whether or not a society, through its laws, has the right to determine when it's okay to kill somebody. And like it or not, history back to the beginning of time has proven that it does. Not just Hitler, but the "good" guys, too. Society always decides when it's okay to send young men off to fight wars and kill and be killed. It decides when to kill murderers of adults and children. In the past, it decided when it was okay to burn witches and hang horse thieves. It decides when it's okay to take people off life support. It establishes the laws, and enforces them as it sees fit.

The United States has determined by general consensus that it's safer and healthier for abortion to be legal, and it's established legal parameters as to when it's okay. If you don't like it, work to change the law (good luck with that), or move to another country where the women have to go into back alleys and do it in secret. Those are the choices you have. That's the argument. Are you pro-society, or pro-your own opinion?

reply to post by deepankarm


> Even the sperm and eggs are conscious, that's why enlightened ones always taught not to waste it.

So I guess this makes me mass murderer because I masturbate quite often.

I am sorry, but I didn't even watch your video. You made it pretty clear in your statement that you are against abortions. In some replies I see the christian card being played, so I guess I will throw mine in as well! I am a christian, and I am a women, and I believe that if a women wants to have an abortion, that is her right, and none of my business. I also do not believe she will burn in hell for this. Man can never concieve, no matter what the situation is, including rape. Therefore no man should have any say in this subject matter what so ever. And any women out there, trying to tell another women what they think about another women having an abortion, needs to get a life and take a long hard look in the mirror

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
And no, your video did NOTHING to change my mind. At all. I've seen plenty of propaganda before.

Funny, your post is 3 minutes after the OP, and it's a 33 minute movie. You must have a time machine or something, if you can watch a 33 minute movie in 3 minutes.

As for the topic, I am glad there are abortions. I mean, most people who abort are probably not fit to be parents anyway, and would simply mistreat the kid. They're selfish people who have no responsibility for their actions, and will most likely create more criminals.

Aaah morals... such a display of one's wounds. Permit me to do the same.

Most pro-lifers I know are for the death penalty, they eat animals and they endorse war. I don't ever see them chaining themselves to trees, protesting wars or picketing outside butcher shops. How can one be pro-life, yet disregard—and take part in the killing of, so much life? To be moral about anything, especially in regards to something such as life, one must follow his own moral doctrine exactly before he can even think about pushing it on others, or you run the risk of becoming a liar and a self-promoting hypocrite—and in the most dangerous and evil sense.

The choice to not have an abortion is entirely yours. A pro-choice can choose to have an abortion and pro-lifer can choose not to have an abortion; it's a fairly even playing field.

Out of the context of the abortion debate, pro-lifers are more pro-choice than anything.

Moralizing and generalizing over...

Created by the same creotard who said the banana is proof of an intelligent designer, because it fits into our hands easily and is easy to spot when it's ripe, and some other nonsense. The maker of this video is an ass... a dumb ass.

www.youtube.com...

Need I say more?

Why is it that so often (not always) the same people who argue pro-life are opposed to feeding this life should times become hard, as they are today in the world, and opposed to...oh what to call it...the nanny state, socialism, and helll, okay, treading on you? Is it some sort of cognitive disconnect?

Anyways,,,you mind your business and I'll mind mine. And, as many have said, being pro-choice doesn't necessarily mean I'll choose the abortion, but I will always choose to grant someone governance over their own bodies and circumstances and to live with their choices.

firstly id just like to say that ive had an abortion...

secondly...i wouldnt say that im pro-choice, id say that i think having an abortion under certain circumstances is fine..however these women who use it as a form of contraception because they dont take the pill or use condoms disgust me!

if i woman who has say 3 children, and she finds herself pregnant and plans to go ahead with the pregnancy, but finds out that if she were to carry on with the pregnancy that there were serious health implications to her and her unborn child then thats a circumstance that i agree with abortion.

if a young girl is on the pill and she ends up pregnant...(it does happen im living proof of that) and she doesnt have the skills or the desire or the means to bring a child up then i agree with abortion in this circumstance.

or what about a woman who is raped? should she go ahead with the pregnancy carrying a child in her that is a constant reminder of a disgusting terrifying thing that happened to her?

theres a wide spectrum here its not just the case of right or wrong ..theres a middle where exceptions need to made, if early on in the pregnancy ie b4 12 weeks where a tablet can be taken thats fine UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCE.......but later than that id be more ....dubious ..but thats my opinion

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Without devolving this into the nromal abortion topic, that is, pointing out that no human is killed with abortion, ill simply say this:

That is only your opinion, sorry to say, based on what people who have devalued human life have to say...

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
You have your opinion on the subject. What makes you think you have a right to make others live by your opinion?

This is a very difficult topic to discuss. Meanwhile i do agree with you that people should have individual freedom, and the choice to do what they want, who speaks for the unborn children who are aborted?

For people like you a fetus is not "human" because you have been told so. Because to you, only at a certain point, decided by those who have devalued human life, does it become human.

But I can tell you that being human is more than just being a biological being developed at a certain point.

It is quite ironic that the same people who cheer in favour of abortion, are the same people who protest the treatment of animals, including chickens in farms...

BTW, I am not in favour of the maltreatment of animals. But this has gone beyond caring for certain non-human species into a suttle hatred being instilled mainly in younger generations against humans.

How many books are there already written claiming that the world would be a better place without humans in it?...

How many college and University professors profess the same thing?... This has gone to the point that quite a few people, even people with power would like for a major disease to kill a majority of humans...

This by itself goes to show how people have been desynthesized into devaluing the worth of a human fetus, even that of humans, while at the same time elevating the value of other non-human species...

Well, OP, since you're quoting the Bible, how about these:

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

Abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life.

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.

Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16

Or this.

God sometimes approves of killing fetuses.
God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.

And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. -- Numbers 31:15-17
(Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)
Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. -- Hosea 9:14
Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:16
Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. -- Hosea 13:16

God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.

Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14

The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.

Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. -- Genesis 38:24

I'm not religious. I don't believe that this character of the Old Testament is even GOD! But it's in your book.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Why is it that so often (not always) the same people who argue pro-life are opposed to feeding this life should times become hard, as they are today in the world, and opposed to...oh what to call it...the nanny state, socialism, and helll, okay, treading on you? Is it some sort of cognitive disconnect?

Because unlike you a lot of us have experienced first hand what really happens when a nation becomes a "nanny socialist state"...

Because unlike you, even many of those Americans who haven't experienced first hand a "nanny socialist state", many have parents, or grandparents who did experience life in such "nanny socialist state" and know that nothing good comes from it...

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Anyways,,,you mind your business and I'll mind mine. And, as many have said, being pro-choice doesn't necessarily mean I'll choose the abortion, but I will always choose to grant someone governance over their own bodies and circumstances and to live with their choices.

edit on 2/16/2012 by ~Lucidity because: typo

A fetus is not part of the body of a woman... It is already developing into what will become an individual...

A person is ALWAYS changing and evolving, so the evolution of individuality does NEVER really stop.

A person at 60 years old is not the same person he/she was at 40 years old. So in essence a human being NEVER stops developing.

In the same manner a fetus is the first stages of an individual and it is not part of the body of his/her mother... it is a completely different, and evolving individual...