12,000 Years Old Unexplained Structure

Quite frankly, I don't know why these people are so surprised. Humans have been humans for at least 100 thousand years. Did they think we just sat around living in caves for the first 95,000 or so and then civilization just magically started happening?

reply to post by flexy123


You just took a number (12.000) for granted just because a guy said so and ask me if I'm being funny???
Who is the neighbor? Greece. An ancient nation who ruled the world, conquered almost everything, inventer of mathematics, physics, democracy and even had a pharao in Egypt! The ones that gave you the ability to even write this post and ONE guy in a video says they found some stables that are 12.000 years old and you take that for a fact.

Now who's the one being funny?

Are we sure we have been around for tens of thousands of years. As far as I know and I don't claim to be an expert on it either but I really do believe that we have been around for about 6000 years. Before then there were other civilizations that were much more advanced then what we are today. I mean the are dating the Pyramids at around 10,000 years. Carbon dating can not be proven that it works, it's just theories when it gets over the years that we can document. Well anyways getting back to my point, these ancient civilizations were capable of doing some remarkable technological feats that we cannot do to this day. I believe that our creator was here and had his angels here way before the first man came along. Now this is just my belief and I do not believe in the Ancient Astronaut Theory either. I also believe that these civilizations became too evil for our creator and he eventually destroyed them. These are just my thoughts, maybe someone else can run with this idea further.

Originally posted by 3rdheaven
Are we sure we have been around for tens of thousands of years. As far as I know and I don't claim to be an expert on it either but I really do believe that we have been around for about 6000 years. Before then there were other civilizations that were much more advanced then what we are today. I mean the are dating the Pyramids at around 10,000 years. Carbon dating can not be proven that it works, it's just theories when it gets over the years that we can document. Well anyways getting back to my point, these ancient civilizations were capable of doing some remarkable technological feats that we cannot do to this day. I believe that our creator was here and had his angels here way before the first man came along. Now this is just my belief and I do not believe in the Ancient Astronaut Theory either. I also believe that these civilizations became too evil for our creator and he eventually destroyed them. These are just my thoughts, maybe someone else can run with this idea further.

Well said, Sir

Originally posted by Hellas

Briefly:

GT is a great site, a hybrid

Sure carbon dating works as do the score of other technical dating systems - just because creationist say they don't doesn't mean it is true.

We can do almost anything an ancient civilization can do but in many cases there is no desire and the lack of dedication to learn a dead art

We cannot build a WWI dreadnought now - does that mean aliens made them? Technology moves on. There are a few technologies that are not well understood. No modern human has developed the skill in stone tool making that the ancients had....does that mean that we are backwards?

Ah Hellas no Greece city states and no Greeks that far back. At best they might have been 4 guys looking for girls north ofthe Black sea that far back

reply to post by flexy123

Mainstream science until recently did say there was no such things as temples, worshipping etc. let alone elaborate building/villages etc. 12.000 years ago.

You don't know how "mainstream science" works do you? Let me break it down simple for you, new discoveries are made and a new understanding is brought out of that. Science is not religion.

This is a time when we were considered hunting, living in caves...BEFORE we even started to domesticate animals or learned to farm, let alone build temples or have any form of religion.
Göbleki Tepe proves that at this time there was already something established like worshipping and society which is proof that religion etc. possibly came BEFORE anything else. Which is quite some rewriting of what we assumed before.
Short: What you are seeing here is some sort of temple/temple city where they gathered and performed some rituals possibly involving animals/idols etc.as well as elaborate stone carvings and statues.....FAR, FAR EARLIER than we assumed...

You should brush up on "mainstream science"
www.webcitation.org...
This is also 12,000 years old.

So how is this "unexplained"

Originally posted by Hellas
reply to post by FraternitasSaturni

 

The Helladic period dates back to the 30th Century BC!

And like I said the 12k are just an estimation and a very vague one, too. And no we're not talking about Turkey because this is irrelevant since Turkey is only roughly 800 years old. So this is of course nothing Turkish. And I gave a very plausible explanation.

It was always the dominant culture since ancient times

Ok, first you said hellenic... then you say helladic. Ok... I sincerely hope you know the difference.

Still... the early helladic dates back to 3000bc so... your point is? 3000 bc is NOT 10000 bc... 10000bc is not bronze age like the helladic, is neolithic - lithic as in STONE... 10k bc is still a stone age (a new stone age ok, but still a stone age) not a metal age. We're talking about a 7 or 8 thousand years difference.

I dont mean to be rude or offensive but...

Do you even know what you're talking about? I mean... I'm a history major, and I never ever seen anyone mixing hellenic or hellenistic with helladic... Come on... you want ppl to take you seriously, please learn your history because I'm not here wasting my time with someone who cant understand history and cant tell a stone age from a bronze age and the years between them. - this is like... 8th grade history.

Can someone please answer this, What about this structure is unexplained?

reply to post by PageAlaCearl


I'd like to know how they dated it because you cannot date rocks. Look on the bottom of the statue, i bet it says "made in china" .

reply to post by Hanslune


Lol... I dont know much greek, but I could understand that. No, I dont think so... I think hes either very skeptic or not really aware that these "buildings" are completely off their time. No one 12 thousand years ago, in the freaking neolithic could build these structures... still I think he doesnt have a real idea of what time period is 10000 bc. Its not helladic, its neolithic.

Still... this is a very weird find. As an historian myself, I dont think we're on to aliens or weird super natural stuff or anything... I just think we have our numbers wrong regarding our own history. We're way older than we're suppose to be according to what we learn at "school", college or books... theres homo sapiens sapiens records dating back 230.000 years which is CRAZY from a mainstream history perspective... but yet there they are. The footprints match, everything else matches... but for now we just say "this dating cant be right" so we stuff that junk into a cabinet somewhere waiting for better days or better results... better as in "artifact results that actually bend to our rules, so we dont have to bend to it"... but sometimes we have to surrender and take the "crazy stuff" as canon. For now... its just cabinet and tag stuff...

I think we're dead wrong about the history we know and learn. "Modern" stuff, where are records and all that jazz, sure we're right about it... I mean, it cant be missed, but without records we can only make conjectures, but those should be "points of view" or "hypothesis", not canon carved in stone like an absolute truth.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by PageAlaCearl

 

I'd like to know how they dated it because you cannot date rocks. Look on the bottom of the statue, i bet it says "made in china"

.

Sometimes the ignorance in ATS is staggering... So... you cant date rocks huh? Ok, if you say so... I wont even bother to teach you how. You either believe the crap you're saying and you stay ignorant for the rest of your life, or you do a little research and see how can a rock be dated.

I'll give you the first hint that its only a small part of a bigger movie... "stratification". Now from there... you start adding up the rest. When you come to a conclusion and find all the other pieces of the puzzle, you'll see how a rock is dated and you come back here and share with us your findings deal?

EDIT: oh and Hellas... Greece never "ruled the world" man... lol... lets not get all that jumpy now. And democracy was, is and will always be a failure. The greeks did not "INVENT" mathematics, thats a misconception... what they did was "initiate the study of". Of course you know that ppl could count before right? Pre historic ppl could count (the concept of elementary arithmetic + - * / ) ... the first written numerals come from egypt, then babylonians evolved math... and only then the greeks came and created the concept of "studying mathematics".

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


SO now i'm ignorant because i was trolling? Wow. You have incredible powers of judgementalism .

Post deleted.

Sorry for the harsh reply lonewolf.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by PageAlaCearl

 

I'd like to know how they dated it because you cannot date rocks. Look on the bottom of the statue, i bet it says "made in china"

.

Look at the wiki page on this settlement it shows under dating how it was done. That links to the report,

Here - in German

The PPN A settlement has been dated to c. 9000 BCE. There are remains of smaller houses from the PPN B and a few epipalaeolithic finds as well.

There are a number of radiocarbon dates (presented with one standard deviation errors and calibrations to BCE):

The Hd samples are from charcoal in the lowest levels of the site and would date the active phase of occupation. The Ua samples come from pedogenic carbonate coatings on pillars and only indicate a time after the site was abandoned—the terminus ante quem

The dated items associated with the stones by the stratigraphic method

Originally posted by JoshF
Can someone please answer this, What about this structure is unexplained?

I'll let the fellow at www.atlantisevidence.com... answer for me:

At present, Gobekli Tepe raises more questions for archaeology and early prehistory than it answers. We do not know how a force (ie: a population base) large enough to construct, build, and maintain such a massive complex was organised and fed in the conditions of pre-Neolithic society. We cannot "decipher" the pictograms, and have no idea what meaning the animal relief's had for the builders of the site; the variety of fauna depicted, from lions and boars to birds and insects, makes any single explanation difficult. It is hard to imagine why more and more walls were added to the interiors while the sanctuary was in use, with the result that some of the engraved pillars were hidden. The reason the complex was eventually buried also remains unexplained. Considering that only a fraction of the site has so far been excavated, these and other mysteries may eventually be solved.

The date of ~10,000 BCE has been confirmed both by carbon dating at this site, and is comparable to a site not far away called Catal Huyuk, dated at around 9,000 BCE.

The three oddities that stand out for me are these:

1) Rather than the stone carvings being engravings, where stone is chiseled out, these carvings are in bas relief, where 90% of the stone is carved away to leave an image standing out from the stone. This is far more time consuming, and is extremely rare even thousands of years later. Why did they do these figures the more difficult way?

2) Some of the carvings contain images of what are described as bird-headed humanoids. These are similar to the descriptions recorded by the First Dynasty Egyptians, who claimed that the most ancient ancestors in their area were bird-headed gods, from the "First Time" after the Great Flood, called Zep Tepi. Is there a connection between these bird-headed creatures, separated by thousands of years and hundreds of miles?

3) For whatever reason, the site was filled in, ever so carefully, with millions of small had-placed stones. Why did the people who worshiped there decide to cover the place up so gently? They could have pulled down the stones, smashed things to pieces, or even just poured rubble in to fill the place up. Yet, they took the time to wedge these small stones into place over an extensive period of time, almost -- one would say -- respectfully. One more unanswered question.

Of course, the real unanswered question: how was all this accomplished by people who supposedly had no language and were still mired deep in the Stone Age, without the benefits of animal husbandry, agriculture, or city building?

The more you study this site, the more questions it raises.


EDIT: There's an even more detailed and much more artwork-supported site at redicecreations.com...

Here's their take on why the site's unique:

But the real reason the ruins at Göbekli remain almost unknown, not yet incorporated in textbooks, is that the evidence is too strong, not too weak. 'The problem with this discovery,' as Schwartz of Johns Hopkins puts it, 'is that it is unique.' No other monumental sites from the era have been found. Before Göbekli, humans drew stick figures on cave walls, shaped clay into tiny dolls, and perhaps piled up small stones for shelter or worship. Even after Göbekli, there is little evidence of sophisticated building...Çatalhöyük is probably about 1,500 years younger than Göbekli, and features no carvings or grand constructions. The walls of Jericho, thought until now to be the oldest monumental construction by man, were probably started more than a thousand years after Göbekli. Huge temples did emerge again—but the next unambiguous example dates from 5,000 years later, in southern Iraq.

They also point out an intriguing new possibility:

Schmidt’s thesis is simple and bold: it was the urge to worship that brought mankind together in the very first urban conglomerations. The need to build and maintain this temple, he says, drove the builders to seek stable food sources, like grains and animals that could be domesticated, and then to settle down to guard their new way of life. The temple begat the city.

Bold indeed: That Gobekli Tepe was the focal point that launched Western Civilization.

Is that explanation enough for you, Josh?

This is a little off topic, but i have a friend who is an archeologist and is actively working on this island and on the mainland. I mentioned Caral Supe being over 8,000 years old and his reply.. not possible....do you get my drift. Archeology has its learned boundaries max 5,000 years old.. as does any other science, but, we now know that things can exceed the speed of light, so physics is set on it's head and I have no doubt what so ever that we have been on this planet for far longer than conventional "wisdom" will allow, the pyramids were here before the flood and so on.. somewhere I read that we had been wiped out 82 times over a period of 150 million years. I also read about many strange finds in mining operations in africa that cannot be explained. An open mind is a great mind, something to be cherished in these times of mass dumbing down.

have they reached the foundations yet? or are they still digging down? what is it covered in is it local or something else? maybe something to do with the 'epic' floods that seems to have happened around 10 k + ago what else has been covered with mud .. if thats what it is covered in .. id love to go there and search further out and around the area there could be more ..

Yes interesting. The unusual animal carvings gave mt pause. As for Von Daniken, I thing he's a bit....oh.... less than...uh...he sensationalizes a bit too much and actually was the subject of much contraversy as having fabricated some of his findings on a plethora of antiquities.
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Quote:
"Rewatching this episode now on Netflix, and though I would rather see the unedited version of this - don't trust the History Channel for some very good reasons - it is a pretty good series. Although they would have more credibility if they left Graham Hancock out. IMO he is just a hack chasing money. Howe and Von Daniken are good though."

reply to post by Ittabena


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