Your Views On 'Smacking' children.

reply to post by Biliverdin

I appreciate your concern, but should I choose to raise another child, I will adopt, or most likely, foster. I believe that there are more than enough children wanting, needing and waiting to be loved and nurtured, without bringing any more into this world.

I think adoption is great, please do. If I had the money they make you pay to adopt, I would. If they would allow you to discipline them I would but I'm not going to take the responsibility of a kid I cannot spank and let him run a muck. Nor am I going to let them run a muck, while my kids will be disciplined. You know what the real problem is, most kids would not need adopted if THEIR PARENTS WERE DISCIPLINED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Noticed I did not say all, some could have died from someone else who needed disciplined.

If we are to take control of the future

It's call the rod.
Sirach 30:1 (1611 KJV, Brenton Bible) He that loveth his son causeth him oft to feel the rod, that he may have joy of him in the end.
Sirach 30:2 He that chastiseth his son shall have joy in him, and shall rejoice of him among his acquaintance.

While I agree with you, there is plenty of land, that land is, however, occupied already and that which occupies that land needs to be protected from the avarice and greed of those who feel entitled to take that which is not their’s to take.

Second time asking this. Do you have a garden??
Do you have a pool?

At the time that the Bible was written, infant and maternal mortality was high. Very few children survived beyond the age of five, and therefore it was essential in order to propagate the species to sire as many children as possible, in order to ensure that at least one would survive to adulthood.

Did you watch this? This nation will fall because of your mindset.

Modern medicine and technology have now evolved to a point where most children in the western world survive past the age of five.

Oh yeah, they have evolved. They have evolved to govt. schools inc. getting $500 for every kid that get put on ritalin. They have evolved to everybody being medicated to were they are walking zombies. We no long fix the problems, to were we simply cover up the problem. But hey, the medical field does not care because what they give you to cover up your real problem is not healthy for you, so (if you don't wake up) you will be back for more. It's almost like residue income. We have evolved to the point were the doctors due their best to make sure you have a c-section, which in the long run causes more problems, in fact some can't even have any more children. But since you buy the crap being feed to you, I guess that is a good thing.
Do you work in the cover it up medical field?

raised to be nothing more than a prize winning sow, a cash cow, who’s only purpose in life is to churn out off-spring for the slaughter.

That's right, YHWH has blessed me. Every year I win the prize, every year I win the gold. They are a gift from YHWH, but my quiver is not yet full. I love my kids, in fact since no where in the Bible does it say a man CANNOT have more than one wife, I am currently seeking another wife and we would start winning those prizes as I do with my current wife. Oh and please get yourself in a hissy, and throw ANY scripture you want at me because I tell you NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY A MAN CANNOT HAVE MORE THAN ONE WIFE! Nor does the US Constitution, nor does the US Constitution say that a man cannot marry a man, but the Bible does.
Please, in form me: for what slaughter?
So, has your one child been brought forth for the slaughter?

And I have little doubt that you will take and take until the food chain has been broken into tiny pieces and all that is left are the starving and disaffected amongst the barren, life-less plain. Your selfishness seemingly knows no bounds, you cannot look to care for or improve what already exists and seek only to reproduce brow-beaten clones of yourself that will further propagate the message of wanton destruction of this planet that you feel that your creator has empowered you to rape.

Again, do you have a garden?
Do you waste your land with a pool?
How many cars are at your house?
How many vacations did you go on last year?
How much gas do you waste simply in getting your kid to school (govt. daycare)/daycare every year?
Do you eat meat? If so, how many farm animals do you raise?
Do you take all your food waste and put it into your garden or do throw it into the garbage to make methane, that is usaully wasted?
You are judging me. You do not know me. You do not know how I live. I'm asking you questions about yourself, why? So that I do not judge you, but continue away with your judgements.

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reply to post by Biliverdin

I can only hope that your children will see more than that, see the hatred of others that drives you to beat them because you are nothing more than a farmyard animal.

Yes, I will teach them to see the hatred like you just spewed out. Is this how you verbally abuse your child when he/she disagrees with you? If you do, when they are a teenager and tired of you trying to manipulate them I'm sure it will appear then because I know your kids are smart.
So you want everybody reading this thread to listen to what you have to say as you continue to judge me and call me names. I don't think that's going to work.

Worse in fact, because whatever created you, gave you the ability to think and feel beyond basic biological imperatives, though you choose to reject that reason, and instead look to a single, outdated, book to instruct. YOU are all that is wrong and destructive in this world. YOU are responsible for your own actions, but instead you choose to give over that responsibility to a hateful entity, because it gives you some sense of superiority which allows you to look down on the loving expression of others.

Don't you call me the "brow beater"? Let me let you in on a little secret, if you treat your child like this he/she will call you on it when they are older and want no more of it. You sure will get your free thinker then.

I wish that I could exist within a tiny bubble, and pretend that people like you didn’t exist, that there was goodness in all people, that deep down all want what is best for this world, but I cannot.

Now that is really showing love. Either you act and believe what I want you to do and believe, or I will wish you didn't exit, eh? Thank you for letting your light shine, I'm sure the people of this thread are just flocking to your train of thought. It sound as if you are preparing the slaughter!

I am driven to understand and learn tolerance, because that is what we need if we are to end suffering.

Really because it doesn't sound like it. You wish you were in a bubble. You wish a lot of people do not exist. Please be more tolerant and stop your suffering and the suffering of the people who read what you wrote.

I have not yet learnt that tolerance, and while I see and hear the cries of those children, raped, murdered

Nobody is perfect, that's why perfect is the goal. It's called TORAH. If more people would read and follow TORAH their would be no rape and/or murder.

forced to carry guns and weapons

Nobody is forced to carry a weapon, it's a choice. However, if everybody would do what the second amendment charges them to do then we would have less crime. There are more law abiding citizens than serious criminals, it would not take long for the tables to be turned. Are you against the US Constitution also? If more people would discipline their children the way YHWH our creator charges us with their would be less crime.

I cannot help but look at you and realise that it is you that I must learn to find a way to communicate with you, because it is you, and people like you, that have shaped that world for those children, in your self-righteousness.

You have judged me again and in yourself righteousness you have deem yourself worthy of being able to fix me, along with anybody like me. Yes, I will shape the world for my children that YHWH has blessed me with.
Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he turns not away from it.
Psa 127:3 Look, children are an inheritance from יהוה, The fruit of the womb is the reward.
Psa 127:4 As arrows in the hand of a mighty man, So are the children of one’s youth.
Psa 127:5 Blessed is the man Who has filled his quiver with them. They are not ashamed, When they speak with their enemies in the gate.

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reply to post by Biliverdin

Pro 4:1 Children, listen to the discipline of a father, And give attention to know understanding;
Pro 4:2 For I gave you good instruction: Do not forsake my Torah.
Pro 4:3 For I was my father’s son, Tender and the only one in the eyes of my mother,
Pro 4:4 Then he taught me and said to me, “Let your heart hold fast my words; Guard my commands, and live.
Pro 4:5 “Get wisdom! Get understanding! Do not forget, and do not turn away From the words of my mouth.
Pro 4:6 “Do not leave her, and let her guard you; Love her, and let her watch over you.
Pro 4:7 “The beginning of wisdom is: Get wisdom! And with all your getting, get understanding.
Pro 4:8 “Exalt her, and let her uplift you; She brings you esteem when you embrace her.
Pro 4:9 “She gives your head a fair wreath, She shields you with an adorning crown.”
Pro 4:10 Hear, my son, and accept my words, And let the years of your life be many.
Pro 4:11 I have taught you in the way of wisdom, I have led you in straight paths.
Pro 4:12 When you walk your steps shall not be hindered, And if you run you shall not stumble.
Pro 4:13 Hold fast to discipline, do not let go; Watch over her, for she is your life.
Pro 4:14 Do not enter the path of the wrong, And do not walk in the way of evil-doers.
Pro 4:15 Avoid it, do not pass by it; Turn away from it and pass on.
Pro 4:16 For they do not sleep unless they have done evil. And their sleep is taken away unless they make someone fall.
Pro 4:17 For they have eaten the bread of wrongdoing, And they drink the wine of violence.

You do not care, you only care about justifying your own self-centred existence. The only chance that your children will become free-thinkers, is if they reject you and your teaching, and break free to realise their true human potential.

My self centered existance: I'm not the one who wants to live in a bubble. Amen to the breaking free, they will be some of the straightest shooting arrows with razor sharp broad heads on them as they already are. When the strings is let loose there will be some breaking free. Baruch HaShem!!!

You disgust me and for now, I can do nothing else but turn away from you and hope that on this occasion that that moves me, will forgive me my weakness.

Yes, because I don't say one thing and then in the next line say the opposite,

YES I DO FORGIVE YOU!

reply to post by InfoKartel

I've met too many 8+ children families

Would you like to do away with us also? You know like Biliverdin.

you simply do not have the time to adequately cater to your children.

Do you send your children to school? Is it you that has said I do not have enough time to guide you, I will send you to govt. schools inc., they can guide you?

The ONLY reason you have so many children is because of your religion, AND THAT IS SELFISH.

What don't you get? How am I being selfish. My life is my kids!

Not what other consenting adults do between themselves, that is you JUDGING people - for which you are warned in your own holy book for the consequences.

I did not judge anyone! I wrote the true definition of fornication. She then admitted she was/is a fornicator, then I said that we all make mistakes.
I'm not sure how you think you can accuse me of judging when that is all Biliverdin seems to do.
So when all else fails you fall back on what the Bible says, eh?
You do know YHWH can and does work like that, he will drive people so low that they finally will turn to HIM and his word, just like you just did on a small scale.

I'm going to raise the tip of the veil for you; You become that which you hate or it will carry onto your children. So don't judge others like you do, pick-and-choose-believer.

I'm not the one who wants to live in the bubble. I'm not the one who said that I wish everybody who thinks like you didn't exist. So, really, who is picking and choosing? Who is the one, when all else fails, they fall back on what the Bible says. You have just accused me of being the pick and choose believer as YOU JUST DID IT YOURSELF.

Thank you, for your enlightenment. I'm so glad you raised that veil.

Assault is assault, no matter if it is against a stranger, or your own child.

As a survivor of physical and sexual torture, my view on this surprises many people. "spare the rod, spoil the child" is something I believe in, HOWEVER, i do not condone the use of spanking to the point that it would ever leave any type of mark on a child. I see it more as an "attention getter" more than anything else.

I would literally be beaten if I couldn't correctly answer 10 questions about the front page of the Washington Post every day over my summer breaks in 4th grade.

Also, I believe (with that laws of certain states) that spanking on a child's bare bottom is sexual abuse. There is no need for it.

So, i suppose it's all in assuming that the parent is indeed responsible. On the other hand, I also think that we've evolved better ways to discipline children in the last 3,000 years since Proverbs was written so that the use and need to spank has been diminished.

Children must be taught an an early age to respect their parents, not talk back, and obey. Each child is different. Some children are more head strong and simply will do the opposite of what their parents tell them or keep doing something after they have been told not to do it.

If a very young child is playing with something dangerous, running to the streets, running away from you and into a crowd of strangers, or doing something that puts them in danger, I think a smack might be what it takes for some children to understand they can't keep doing this.

I have seen it many times in my life, how a child is misbehaving and putting himself in danger and the parents are like "No sweetie, don't do that." Then the kid just grins and keeps on doing it. Well at times like this, the parents really need the child's attention and for them to fully understand the danger. If it takes a swat to get the message then I say it is better than having a child be in more danger.

Also I have seen kids that are so disrespectful to their parents that I just think I would have swatted them if it were mine.

I have seen kids who beg for toys or candy and scream and scream if they don't get their way. Some of the kids I have seen doing this are embarrassingly too old to be throwing such a fit in the store. I wanted to smack them myself.

I work in a store and often I will hear a child having a fit "But I want it! I want it! Please! I want it!" and the parent says no and the child says "BUT I WANT IT! I WANT IT!" Sometimes a parent will give in and that makes me want to smack the parent.

Even the little ones who do that should know that if Mom or Dad says no, that means no, end of question.

Parents should never give into a fit like that, or it will only continue the next time the child sees something they want. They will think "I'll just throw a fit and then I'll get what I want." That might work with Mom and Dad, but their teacher, friends, future spouse and boss won't appreciate that.

Also I see parents who have a child that is just beginning to talk back and they think it is cute. They think their little toddler is being sassy and they smile and giggle. This only encourages the child and it isn't so cute when they are three or four and talking back.

Also if you get your child a toy at the store once for "being good" then you'll have to do it every time. Then if you don't have the money or you don't want to get the toy, this only confuses the child because you always got them a toy before. So I say if you are going to the store with your child, from day one, they need to understand what the rules are. They aren't going to understand that sometimes they get a toy and sometimes not. It is all or nothing with a young child. So if you want to always be buying them toys or candy, then start doing that.

I have seen parents that actually have a toy shopping cart and anything their child wanted they just reached out and put it in their own shopping cart. I guess the people were rich or thought that was cute. Yeah it is cute when they are a toddler, not going to be so cute when they are preteens or whatever.

Whatever they are doing when they are a toddler they are going to keep doing when they are older unless you stop it. So if you think it is cute now, think again, because it isn't going to be cute forever.

Originally posted by jessieg
Whatever they are doing when they are a toddler they are going to keep doing when they are older unless you stop it. So if you think it is cute now, think again, because it isn't going to be cute forever.

I agree with much of what you have to say, but you can do it without hitting them, if you have the patience to put the work in, but it is one of those things, as you say, you have to put that work in when they are toddlers. Leave it too late, and it does become much harder. I only have to raise an eyebrow and I can stop my son in his tracks, I don't even have to open my mouth, because he knows I mean business. And that doesn't require any threat of physical reprimand.

Children want to please, and most bad behaviour is caused by them not receiving the right kind, or sometimes any kind of attention. If all that they ever get is negative attention, or the only physical one-on-one attention that they recieve is corporal punishment, they will seek out that punishment, because they at least get noticed then.

Children aren't difficult to figure out. And the majority are only mirroring the behaviour of the adults around them, and don't yet understand that that is not necessarily the best example for them to follow, and get confused (and angry) when they are punished for doing what adults seem to get rewarded for. Which is why, that even the worst treated children, can turn themselves around once they break free from such a hypocritical upbringing.

reply to post by addygrace


Hahahahahahahahahah. I know that I'm not adding anything to this post but that was too funny!

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL

think its a bad idea how would you like if someone smack you when you screw up

I believe discipline is needed in the effect that the child understands the consequences of thier actions will result negatively, i think that is intention here which i agree with. But the levels of which the discipline is taken should be up to the law, there doesnt need to be any lasting physical or psychological damage that would scar the children for life; that i believe should be regulated by law. Its the balance of Love vs. Discipline that is important to weigh...If the child sees nothing but harm then i believe the government (or someone) should step in.

en.wikipedia.org...

A Clockwork Orange springs to mind

Sry double post..

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
reply to post by greeneyedleo


But what if all alternative route fail. Do you simply let them get away with it?

ALS

But how many parents really try all the alternatives first? The ones that I've seen who hit their kids usually don't.

I see a lot of children who misbehave mainly because that is the only time they get any real adult attention. Children aren't dolls - many of them need a lot of interaction and if they are told something, they need a reason for it.

There have been several studies that spanking leads to mental problems later on:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.medicalnewstoday.com...

Punishment in general is usually ineffective in changing behaviour in anyone, adult or child, and "because I told you so" is one of the most prevalent bad parenting traits.

Raising kids is tough but more often than not people use smacking or other authoritarian actions as the easy way out. It might be easier at the time but not in the longer run.

reply to post by Jessica6


I think what is indicative is when families employ nannies, who by law are not allowed to physically reprimand children, and those kids grow up perfectly behaved (if sometimes a little emotionally distanced from their parents). Those nannies are of course trained up to the hilt with the latest techniques, and are professionally trained, but if they can do it without force, then surely the parent that loves their child can too.

Originally posted by matthewgraybeal
If you don't "Parent" your kids assume they are in charge. You can't be your kids buddy, they will walk all over you. Just like their TV shows, what they can do to their parents. "monkey see, monkey do"

You can be friends with your kids, but establish who makes the rules, and mete out proper punishment if the kids are severely out of line with what you would, do in a situation.

Spare the rod, spoil the child.

A swat on the ass when only absolutely necessary works just fine, if you have already taken the steps to shape them into decent responsible people.

oh yes; because it is impossible to teach you child a lesson without causing them physical pain and forcing them to see their parents in a light where the child is now afraid of them.

thats how spanking works, you make the child afraid of YOU not the punishment. Even the child knows that the PARENT is intentionally hurting them and that has negative mental effects.

let's look at it from a childs POV

"Mommy is hitting me repeatedly because I took a candy bar".... what does the child really learn? not too steal or just to not get caught by mommy?

I think it is more effective to talk to your child and tell them WHY what they did is wrong... besides it makes me physically ILL to even consider hitting a child and anyone who can listen to their own children sobbing and think it's for the CHILD'S benefit makes me sick

Smacking kids is one of those things that requires common sense. Zero discipline leads to spoiled kids, but if you beat the **** out of them that's far worse.

Most balanced indivduals have an idea of what's acceptable and what'S not.

Originally posted by TheXoor
Smacking kids is one of those things that requires common sense. Zero discipline leads to spoiled kids, but if you beat the **** out of them that's far worse.

Most balanced indivduals have an idea of what's acceptable and what'S not.

and you can discipline your kid without hitting them, if not you're a terrible parent. Case closed.

I have no issue with giving my kids a little smack when they need it. I don't abuse or assault my children and I don't leave bruises. I don't smack my children regularly but there are times when I feel that a smack is appropiate.
Life is tough. I believe that all children should learn the lesson of cause and effect. If my boy goes down to the pub when he's older and insults someone... He's going to get a smack in the face. I think that it's better for him to learn now as a child the effects of his behavior.

My Daughter has a habit of pinching people. What better way to teach her how much pinching hurts than to pinch her back.

People seem to forget that all this anti smacking super nanny crap only works on approximately 50% of children. The other 50% simply don't respond to time outs or charts on the wall...

Besides... If I decide that I want to beat my child what business is it of the governments? When will people learn that this nanny state crud doesn't work. You can't regulate society. People don't and haven't stopped hitting their children just because it's illegal. If we want people to stop abusing thier children then we need to address the issues causing the violence as a community. We need to be teaching our parents the lomg term effects of violence in the home and how it effects thier family and the community. They have to want to change though...

Besides... If I decide that I want to beat my child what business is it of the governments? When will people learn that this nanny state crud doesn't work. You can't regulate society. People don't and haven't stopped hitting their children just because it's illegal. If we want people to stop abusing thier children then we need to address the issues causing the violence as a community. We need to be teaching our parents the lomg term effects of violence in the home and how it effects thier family and the community. They have to want to change though...

Are you serious? It's the governments jobs to protect the rights of american citizens and that involves children (it's a right not to have the # kicked out of you) . Parents who beat their kids are among the worst people I can think of and I am saying this from first hand experience you prick. If you started beating your kid I would prefer they get taken and placed in a home with parents who are capable of punishing their kids without laying a hand on them because i guesa I'm just #ing crazy for wanting kids to be able to grow up without having violent altercations with full grown adults.

Maybe we should look out for the benefit of the kids and raise them to be HAPPY adults; and teach them not too continue the circle of violence by not inflicting violence of any kind upon them. And just to clarify, your daughter pinches people so you decide to act like a #ing child and pinch a young girl thus causing her physical pain because you want her to learn that two wrongs make a right? What did you just teach her? "No pinching, unless you me!" then what; your daughter starts crying and you feel big about yourself?

Since when is causing physical pain to someone smaller, less intelligent, and Naive about the way the world works a good thing?