Your Views On 'Smacking' children.

reply to post by vasaga


Don't you find it even slightly egotistical to judge and attempt to coach others based on your own so-called "research?" I could cite 1000s of book, websites, people, videos, etc. It is simply an opinion based on experience, yet if people decide their own way of discipline based on THEIR OWN children, what business do you have telling us what is best for children you know nothing about.
Here's a fact. Kids aren't cars. They don't come with instruction manuals of what to do when things don't go to plan, and every single kid, regardless of whatever basket you attempt to put them into by way of your "research", it won't always fit the mould. Every parent, every parent you ask would be happy to say they never have to discipline their kids, that they would always go to plan, but it 'aint the case. How I raise MY kids and the boundaries and discipline I set is entirely up to me, not some book reader that cites page after page of how to do it better. The day people can come out with a working manual on how to raise kids the perfect way, and it is PROVEN to work, then I will consider it. Until then, I think parents should raise their kids how see fit, even if it means a smack from time to time. As I said before it depends on the kid, as they, like all humans, are unique, and rules for one does NOT mean rules for all.

Originally posted by 74Templar
reply to post by vasaga

 

Don't you find it even slightly egotistical to judge and attempt to coach others based on your own so-called "research?" I could cite 1000s of book, websites, people, videos, etc. It is simply an opinion based on experience, yet if people decide their own way of discipline based on THEIR OWN children, what business do you have telling us what is best for children you know nothing about.
Here's a fact. Kids aren't cars. They don't come with instruction manuals of what to do when things don't go to plan, and every single kid, regardless of whatever basket you attempt to put them into by way of your "research", it won't always fit the mould. Every parent, every parent you ask would be happy to say they never have to discipline their kids, that they would always go to plan, but it 'aint the case. How I raise MY kids and the boundaries and discipline I set is entirely up to me, not some book reader that cites page after page of how to do it better. The day people can come out with a working manual on how to raise kids the perfect way, and it is PROVEN to work, then I will consider it. Until then, I think parents should raise their kids how see fit, even if it means a smack from time to time. As I said before it depends on the kid, as they, like all humans, are unique, and rules for one does NOT mean rules for all.

You have every right in the world to believe whatever you want. What you don't have the right to are your own facts.
Here's a fact for you - yes kid's aren't cars - they are biological organisms that can in fact, be studied to a point where we come away with plenty of information, insight and growth models. We're not machines - we're unpredictable in many ways but also not that complicated and predictable in others. Parenting research has become sophisticated enough to be able to recommend a series of "best practices" - the pathway with the best chance of success. I could go on but you've already closed your mind to "book leaning." Good luck with everything..

reply to post by mrsoul2009


So to you kids are nothing more than lab rats to be studied as to the best way to raise them? My own kids are chalk and cheese when it comes to raising them, and I don't waste my time reading pointless books on what is right and what is wrong. Like anything, learn by doing. As a kid I was belted with whatever was available, something I refuse to do for my own kids as I consider it going too far. However, if a smack on the bum is required to maintain discipline, I don't see the problem. I take no delight in resorting to a smack, nor do I get any joy out of it, and indeed prefer reason over discipline anyday. But sometimes it just doesn't work. Kids will test your limits every day, and granted I will admit there are some people who go too far, and enjoy putting fear into their children, another thing I don't agree with.
These people who cite rules and books and "self help" crap are no better than the lazy parents who don't discipline their kids. Want real advice? Ask other parents, not books. A parenting group, other parents, your own parents, they can all help heaps when it comes to kids. But hey, if you want lab rats, by all means put on that white coat. At least the kids will get a good laugh out of you...

reply to post by vasaga


i think youll find that scientific sources base there facts on the 'majority', so if what they say is true for 60% but not 40% then its accepted. that means that anything written in official papers is also not true for everyone

Originally posted by DaveNorris
reply to post by vasaga

 

i think youll find that scientific sources base there facts on the 'majority', so if what they say is true for 60% but not 40% then its accepted. that means that anything written in official papers is also not true for everyone

edit on 3/2/2012 by DaveNorris because: spelling

The studies are way more clear than 60-40.

Children who are spanked as 1-year-olds are more likely to behave aggressively and perform worse on cognitive tests as toddlers than children who are spared the punishment, new research our of Duke University shows. Elizabeth Gershoff, associate professor in human development and family sciences, said the study adds to a growing body of research showing negative effects of spanking. “Almost all the studies point to negative effects of spanking,” Gershoff said. “It makes kids more aggressive, more likely to be delinquent and to have mental health problems.”

Source

And here are The Fallacies of Pro-Spanking Science, which are only a handful of papers compared to almost an endless list of anti-spanking because of correlated negative effects.

And this is for the ones who use the famous "I Was Spanked And I'm Fine!" argument..

In the end. Things are simple. Spanking is hitting. Spanking mostly occurs when the parent has become frustrated or impatient, which challenges the idea that they are actually spanking for the benefit of the child. It's most likely that they are spanking the child to make themselves feel better. What the child will learn from this is that physical force is justified when you reach a certain annoyance level.

And seriously. Hitting your wife is seen as horrendous. Why is hitting your child seen as something positive? It doesn't make any sense to hold a child to a higher standard than a grown-up.

Originally posted by vasaga
reply to post by KnightFire

 

You can "bet" all you want, but until you can show some evidence, your claims are baseless assertions.

I will take my bets and I will not let you or anyone else tell me how to raise my kids. What makes you the expert? Oh yeah, I forgot, you have a link to some book or website and whatever is said on the internet must be the absolute truth. /sarc off

I know I'm rasing and have raised my children properly with the actions I have taken with them as they are successful in school and in life.

Bring this topic up 15 years from now when your children are grown and let us know how your partenting skills, I mean your books and website's raised your kids.

As everyone is a bit different, what works for one may not work for another: Different ways to educate and "relate"!

Part of learning and becoming "whole" is having all senses being exposed to various stimuli and "a bit of spanking" may accomplish several "learning moments readily: Instant action/reaction to "doing something wrong" , i.e. a little slap on the butt to a young child regarding "NOT running into the street, "Just may prevent that child from running into it later and getting struck and KILLED by a car. Simple "action/reaction".

Also I (or anyone) could write a thesis regarding "hot" or "heat" that contains 1000s of pages. One could "read it", and even COMPLETELY Understand the words and "the concept" BUT Yet UNTIL THAT PERSON TOUCHED The HOT Item, i.e. "pot on the stove" and get burned a bit --- NO ONE REALLY UNDERSTANDS "HOT".

In other words, the "intelectual world" and " the real world" are FAR APART. So called "Common Sense is simply having The ABILITY To RELATE ALL, WITH ALL". That is the greatest failings of mankind. "Leaders" and "top Experts" in various fields, DO NOT HAVE Common Sense, so we "just know more, while we REALLY KNOW LESS" and become less aware of "Connections", Feelings, & Sense of Self, Sense of RIGHT or WRONG. We are unfeeling, unrthinking robots!

reply to post by WarmHeartedWorld

Let me repost this...

Originally posted by vasaga
reply to post by KnightFire

 

You can "bet" all you want, but until you can show some evidence, your claims are baseless assertions.

Vasaga - So your avatar says "Truth" let me give you and everyone else some "Truth"

You were born on August the 9, 1987 making you 24 years old. You live in the Netherlans and you just finished college. You have no kids yet and you're giving everyone advice, based on publications and internet websites.

So Ray, yes Vasaga's name is Ray, when you have fathered a few kids and gain the experience of fatherhood like I have with 3 kids, 1 one them an adult now, only then can you share your views on parenting.

You said I have baseless assertions because I didn't provide any links or sources. Here is a source for you, I lived it, I have experienced fatherhood and I'm raising children right now. If there is a link for reality, I'd post it for you. Sorry!

So go play your PS3 and leave us parents to talk about parenting.

Soooooooooooo many bad parents out there today...

So worried about spanking...

If you're a parent, it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to discipline your child, and it is YOUR DISCIPLINE to know when the right time to use physical force, how much and how hard.

If you do not spank your children, you are automatically adding a new, spoiled, devoid of discipline child to a world that is already too full of spoiled and undisciplined adults.

As a parent, it's NOT your role to be your childs best friend, because when they get older and rebel against your weakness, you'll be the one visiting the psychiatrist, wondering why the whole world (your children) dislike you.

If you beat your children, you'll be the one visiting the psychiatrist, wondering why the whole world (your children) dislike you.

If you DISCIPLINE your children, using spanking when it's deserved... your children WILL THANK YOU when they are older, and understand why you needed to do it.

YOU ARE AN UNDISCIPLINED adult, if you never spanked your child, and honestly, you shouldn't even have a kid, because you're just contributing to what I mentioned above.

No, I'd NEVER beat my child, I'd die for my child.

But I also know when it's time to lay down the law.


Sincerely,


Mindpurge

Originally posted by mindpurge
Soooooooooooo many bad parents out there today...

So worried about spanking...

If you're a parent, it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to discipline your child, and it is YOUR DISCIPLINE to know when the right time to use physical force, how much and how hard.

If you do not spank your children, you are automatically adding a new, spoiled, devoid of discipline child to a world that is already too full of spoiled and undisciplined adults.

As a parent, it's NOT your role to be your childs best friend, because when they get older and rebel against your weakness, you'll be the one visiting the psychiatrist, wondering why the whole world (your children) dislike you.

If you beat your children, you'll be the one visiting the psychiatrist, wondering why the whole world (your children) dislike you.

If you DISCIPLINE your children, using spanking when it's deserved... your children WILL THANK YOU when they are older, and understand why you needed to do it.

YOU ARE AN UNDISCIPLINED adult, if you never spanked your child, and honestly, you shouldn't even have a kid, because you're just contributing to what I mentioned above.

No, I'd NEVER beat my child, I'd die for my child.

But I also know when it's time to lay down the law.


Sincerely,


Mindpurge

Right On!

If you have to strike a child even a little, then all you have proven is you have little patience and are losing their respect. Thats why they defy you and demand your attention, good, bad or otherwise.

Originally posted by intrptr
If you have to strike a child even a little, then all you have proven is you have little patience and are losing their respect. Thats why they defy you and demand your attention, good, bad or otherwise.

No, 100% incorrect.

Spanking has 100% nothing to do with impatience.

Also, it's a good thing to not extend your patience too far... Sometimes you NEED to be impatient a little bit, or else your kid will grow up thinking they are entitled to EVERYONE'S patience, which they most certainly are NOT entitled to...

Our generation of Adults (my generation, I'm 30 years old, so give and take about 10 years both ways) are so self-deserving...

How many times have you heard "I'm not going to respect YOU until YOU respect ME!!" - ?

TOO MANY TIMES, and THAT'S what I mean by undisciplined... NOBODY SEEMS TO THINK THEY NEED TO EARN ANYONE'S RESPECT UNLESS THEY ARE ALREADY BEING RESPECTED. That's scary, because it's no longer "love thy neighbour" its now become "Don't speak to thy neighbour unless thy neighbour has something to offer"...

And this ALL relates down to childhood discipline and self-deservingness... To truly believe you deserve something because you are you. AND THAT'S BULL#, YOU DON'T DESERVE # UNLESS YOU EARN IT THE HARD WAY. PERIOD!

So, don't raise your child to be another self-deserving, unrespectful little brat... teach them right from wrong, and if that doesn't work, FORCE them to learn right from wrong, because THAT'S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A PARENT.

You can be friends when you're both adults, and laugh about it.

So go play your PS3 and leave us parents to talk about parenting.


And there it is, by and far the best comment I've seen here... Ever!

2nd.

Originally posted by intrptr
If you have to strike a child even a little, then all you have proven is you have little patience and are losing their respect. Thats why they defy you and demand your attention, good, bad or otherwise.

Not only that, it encourages lieing and deceitful behaviour in order to get out of punishment.

Originally posted by Biliverdin
Originally posted by intrptr

 

If you have to strike a child even a little, then all you have proven is you have little patience and are losing their respect. Thats why they defy you and demand your attention, good, bad or otherwise.

Not only that, it encourages lieing and deceitful behaviour in order to get out of punishment.

Thank you for that reply. Thats right too. By the time we have to hit them, they are past being yelled at. Thats why we hit them, because yelling at them or "time outs" or sending them to their room as punishment is no longer working. Its an escalation thing. We don't have the time to understand the problem they are having because we frankly don't care because "they are just kids and they don't know any better", right? Pretty soon we go past spanking to beating to fighting and then we drug em or commit em and the whole time they are learning how to behave just like that in the real world to others. Ultimately they wind up in jail for assault and we scratch our wooden heads and blame someone else when the problem lies in simply not listening to them in the first place.

Sorry about the rant... sensitive subject. Those who have been subjected to physical and emotional abuse by their parents since a young age will understand my words.

Originally posted by intrptr
Sorry about the rant... sensitive subject. Those who have been subjected to physical and emotional abuse by their parents since a young age will understand my words.

No need to apologise, I more than understand, believe me. I am 40 years old and only just managing to stand up to the emotional abuse, now that I am too big to smack

vasaga has been posting and sharing important information with everyone here, and I for one am very thankful for that. I don't care if this person is 5 or 55, the information IS LEGIT.

For those of you complaining about it, did you LOOK at the information provided with an open mind or even a small amount of curiosity? Or are you AFRAID of what you may LEARN? Why are you so afraid that you may be wrong? If you are willing to look at the situation and actually learn something new, isn't that a good thing? If you can learn healthier ways of disciplining your children, ISN'T that a GOOD thing?

I mean, come on people, if you realize that something you have been doing MAY cause life long problems in some way with your child, and that it is something which you can change, isn't that worth looking into for the sake of your children?

Isn't the "goal" of raising children to end up with healthy, happy, compassionate, empathetic and productive adults? If you found out that changing something you do could help boost the likelihood that your child will be these things, wouldn't you be willing to at least LOOK at the information with an open mind?

For those saying "I'm not reading a book it's useless"... or something along those lines, what the H?

Harm None
Peace

reply to post by 74Templar


Ok man. You have fun over there painting little pictures of animals on your cave walls. We'll let you know when we find out something important.

If you beat your kids, they will remember it. You will have taught them a lesson. And, when you're old, and they are taking care of you, they will teach you a lesson, and you won't like it. And you will get retaught that lesson every day. Everyone wants power and control, and it's real easy to exercise it over your animals and kids. Real power and control comes from self-restraint.