Did Carl Sagan know something?

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by VoidHawk

 

Whenever I see disinfo at work (see above) I know we're on to something.

And here's meat and veg of it all.

An opposing view us not disinfo, please act like an adult and take on criticism with maturity.

That was MY opposing view

reply to post by jar11

That circle is also a plain circle full of straight lines. Graphed out with a PC and then put into the crop. Not that clever.

The cleverness comment was in regards to placing a subtle reference to the Planck constant within the circle.

Making it is relatively simple, much like the one in the OP.

reply to post by VoidHawk


Calling people disinfo is a view, but its also a piss poor argument.

reply to post by Chadwickus


I didnt want an argument, I just hoped for an answer to a question. Some people who share your views have still contributed without attacking me or those with my views. You could have replied without attacking my maturity but you chose not to. Why dont you go and start a thread titled Carl didnt know anything and leave those who want to discuss this in peace?

Originally posted by VoidHawk
reply to post by Chadwickus

 

I didnt want an argument, I just hoped for an answer to a question. Some people who share your views have still contributed without attacking me or those with my views. You could have replied without attacking my maturity but you chose not to. Why dont you go and start a thread titled Carl didnt know anything and leave those who want to discuss this in peace?

Touche!

I hearby declare...second line!

reply to post by VoidHawk


I didn't attack until you started with the disinfo BS, there was no need to even mention it.

So please, don't cry foul when it was you who started the attacks.

And Carl is a hero of mine and I agree with many of his philosophies.

Why don't you change your OP to reflect that it wasn't Carl who wrote the DNA sequence?

reply to post by VoidHawk


I appreciate the time you took in putting it all in timeline. I'm also intrigued with your reference to R Hoagland as well, not to dis the others whom your research involved. But RH has long insisted via "implied statements" that those in the know will only admit that knowledge shared is up to date except nat'l security types of issues. What Carl Sagan released, or didn't, let's those who pay attention know that there's a lot more to the story and then some, and all you have to do is start putting it together. Which is what you've done. Keep your brain in tune and look at some other stuff, I think people will learn once they've gotten past the ego thing. Those who want to criticize are trying to get you off course; don't take the bait.
Thank you again.

reply to post by MeMyselfI


Jupiter isn't glowing.

But what does Jupiter have 4 of?

Moons.

reply to post by VoidHawk


OP, you've made a very very compelling thread. If the human genome is actually 3 billion pairs, not the 4 billion sent then maybe the message was sent to signal the beings with DNA made up of 4 billion pairs (Info gained from Roswell specimens maybe?), especially given how close the number is to the number returned.

I find it very interesting about the suggestion that Earth, Mars and (possibly) 3 of the 4 moons of Jupiter are inhabited (I say 3 because one of the moons is on the lower line of uninhabited planets). This may not be suggesting that 'they' inhabit them but that they may be inhabited by life of any type.


reply to post by Chadwickus


Why do certain crop circles have strange electro-magnetic signals and the crop itself 'grows' a node to bend the crop rather than being snap-bent over?

The info supplied regarding the change in DNA would have to come from a very very select group of scientists, and more likely that group wouldn't even be in one building but specialists in their field worldwide?

IF the info regarding the rather unknown nature of this DNA strand is true of course.

I realize this thread isn't supposed to be about crop circles, but the fact remains that it IS about crop circles — specifically, it asks us to accept that the crop circles of the UK are a likely means of communication from non-human intelligence.

I reject that assertion. It makes no sense whatsoever that an advanced technological intelligence would choose a means of communication that was so easily turned into a three-ring circus by Human "artists"... Face it, Humans turned crop-circle creation into an art contest wherein the designs became more and more elaborate until they were positively LAUGHABLE.

We KNOW that Humans CAN do these things. We KNOW that Humans CONTINUE to do these things, and they do them for their own amusement.

I mean, an intelligent non-human species that has been OBSERVING Human civilization for tens of thousands of years would KNOW that their attempts at crop circle communication could and would be corrupted by mischievous Humans, right?

Right. They may as well be writing astrophysical equations in the sand down at the beach. It's NOT a viable means of communications.

I put it to you that if an intelligent non-human species wanted to communicate with us on a level BEYOND the ability of Humans to corrupt the message, the non-human species would do so in such an extraordinary manner that it was beyond dispute... like engraving a 3000-foot-high cliff-face at Yosemite, and doing so overnight.

There is NOTHING about the "coded messages" in wheat fields that is so extraordinary that Humans couldn't hoax them. Crop circles provide no concrete information that is BEYOND Human imagination and ability. That simple fact negates the other-worldliness of crop circles, as far as I'm concerned.

reply to post by Dalo321


Yeah Hoagland is totally on the ball...

Like when he called Elenin a tetrehedron spaceship!

reply to post by VoidHawk


Makes me think that perhaps Carl used his own DNA as a template for the transmission. Interesting thought that perhaps an alien race in another solar system decoded Carl's DNA and cloned him, I mean...wouldn't we?! Fastest way to integrate to a new species probably, considering the distances.

If it was aliens, then they apparently not only understand the English language, but they also have intimate knowledge of ASCII encoding! This is frankly beyond belief.

reply to post by LightAssassin


Jupiter has at least 64 moons, not 4.

Why don't crop circle researchers ever use agricultural experts in their studies?

You know, someone who knows and understands cereal crops...

reply to post by VoidHawk
It's a very good OP and the ideas are pretty new too...new enough to read it all when most recent threads are 'meh.'

I disagree with the ideas despite their originality.

Like Chad, it's too hard for me to overlook the grounding in crop-circles. I believe the ones in your OP are definitely man-made and designed to relate to the UFO/alien myths loved by the crop-circle fans and promoters. If you were part of one of the groups making CCs, wouldn't it be fun to get people drooling at the alien head? And how much international exposure would the messages get?

A CC researcher explored the Maldekian cc and found a green LED with attached lithium battery on the outskirts of the formation. I can't remember the last time I tromped through a corn-field, but imagine it's unusual to find LED lights on the ground? LEDs are used by CC-creators to offer sight-lines in the dark - they don't set up diesel gennies and arc-lights.

If the crop-circles are subtracted from the Sagan message, there's not a lot left to think about.

P.S. you should never drop the d-bomb in a thread. Throwing the 'disinfo' word at folk who simply disagree is wild exaggeration.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
Come on people This is NOT about the circles!!!!!!!!!! Please read all three posts.

Information Its about the Information ! within those crop circles as they are many ! that tells a Tale

Either Man Made or Mans Machine Creation AKA Or OR
a Civilization type 3 or 4 has Made Them A.K.A. Foo Fighter Orb

basically this has remained me of Betty Hills Map ..

the Zeta Reticuli Map looking Towards Our Sun from Their Home Planet View Point

AS Some Say SETI Is Bunk why Would they Respond if they are Already Here ! and Why Radio!!! Wavelengths ETC.. What Could there else be to Communicate to another High Power .From another World ...

Carl Sagan has known Alot of things Especially when He as Known the Higher UP's Figures
in the Chain of Political, Militant and In Science

I Honestly Believe he must of known Something ...

When you think about Swamp Gas J Allen Hynek The Head of Project Blue Book Famed UFO Debunker

Hynek became a True Believer in UFOs after he was Through and was Off the Hook From the Government
Hynek even had a UFO Club Going on Exposing The

J. Allen Hynek
en.wikipedia.org...

Turnaround Hynek began occasionally disagreeing publicly with the conclusions of Blue Book. By the early 1960s—after about a decade and a half of study—Clark writes that "Hynek's apparent turnaround on the UFO question was an open secret."[4] Only after Blue Book was formally dissolved did Hynek speak more openly about his "turnaround."

Hmm Interesting!!!!

Speech before the United Nations
In November 1978, a statement on UFOs was presented by Dr. Allen Hynek, in the name of himself, of Dr. Jacques Vallée, and of Dr. Claude Poher. This speech was prepared and approved by the three authors, before the United Nations General Assembly.[7] The objective was to initiate a centralized United Nations UFO authority.

and don't forget those Old Astronauts that were On the Moon or Orbiting it !

Or the Old Soviet Era Cosmonauts Coming out into the Spot light too

You dont have Much to Loose when your Near the Stage of Death ...

Those Crop Circles in Question Just Maybe ...
The Ones that made them are Just Not not of this World "" ( Originally ) ""
but been here on Earth since the Time of Mans Existence

Usually we have Called these Beings Watchers, Sky dancers ,GOD, Gods, Angels, & Demons
since man has scratch on a Rock

I would just Called Them in Present day a Civ3 or Civ4 Being

I Look at Crop Circles with Information in it as Man's New Monolith of Curiosity

reply to post by ZeskoWhirligan


I disagree.

I think it is viable because for those who want to know, they will investigate and decode them. For those who want to remain ignorant, they can dismiss them. This way they don't interfere with the free will of the planet population.

If they have the tech to manipulate carbon material, or even living carbon material (I say this because as mentioned above there are occurrences where the crop grows anode to bend the plant) why wouldn't they put a picture on a large medium like a crop field.

The public get's to see it, those who want to know more will search.

Would the public really get to know about a received radio message?

reply to post by JunoJive


If Sagan had included a complete transcription of his genome into the Arecibo message, then we'd still be transmitting it today and it would be incomplete. Never mind the fact that in 74 we hadn't even completed a genome sequence for a simple bacterium, let alone a human being...

reply to post by Chadwickus


Sorry, four large moons, or otherwise known as the Galilean moons.

I've not read an agricultural expert dispute the node grown bends in crops. If you have something I will happily concede but really? We're growing nodes now to help make crop circles? So they've gone from planks to some sort of high tech microwave technology that causes the plant to grow?

Sometimes you need to concede that it's not black and white.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. To get the "bearers of false gifts..." message from this, you need to decode it via ASCII.

ASCII is used by computers to encode and store text. It was invented in the 60s.


You'll notice in the original Arecibo message, no actual language is used. The mathematics of binary, as well as the numbers involved in chemistry are far more universal and stand a chance of being understood.

If you sent the aliens a message where "24" represented "A", "25" represented "B", how the hell would you expect them to ever figure that out, let alone understand the english language?

If you sent a message to an alien species, would you have the foresight to encode it in their own digital computer storage standard (which is, by definition, a completely arbitrary code), written in their own language?

GET REAL!

reply to post by Chadwickus


Lol
all you guys keep missing the point of the OP. He is asking about the DNA and what carl knew. The whole crop circle and back story is just that,,, he's setting up the story. But if you read the whole OP and his numerous replies, he is more concerned about finding out why Sagan put the apparent discrepency into the genetic code.

Also, that "intriciate" crop circle you linked to does not even come close to looking incredible or paranormal.
its a circle with intersecting lines. Very basic. I could probably make that myself, alone, in one night.

now if you want to talk about creating 3 dimensionality and shading,, that would actually be impressive.