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John died at the end of the 1st century, are you saying the church was absolutely clueless to where he was laid to rest only 200 years prior?
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
OK, found the quote.
Ireneaus, Against heresies, book 5, chapter 30, end of section 3.
www.newadvent.org...
What Irenaeus seems to be saying is that what John saw as to who the antichrist was, he did not have to say because it came about shortly after he predicted it, in the end of Domitian's reign.
So Irenaeus is not saying the vision was given at the end of Domitian's reign, but that it was fulfilled then.
"For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign."
This clearly blows apart your YouTube video theology theory, once you see it without the hocus pocus.
Look at the word "since" at the end of the first clause. Since . . what? Since the vision was given.
4. But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. For if it had been declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might perhaps continue for a long period. But now as "he was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the abyss, and goes into perdition," Revelation 17:8 as one who has no existence; so neither has his name been declared, for the name of that which does not exist is not proclaimed. But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that "many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." Matthew 8:11
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
None of that in section 4 has anything to do with the meaning of the last line in section 3.
The earlier part is about the identity, and the point is, it became know at that time mentioned.
Part 4 is about what it will do.
The significance of this whole exercise is to date the writing of Revelation.
It is not about what some other people thought it meant, a hundred years later.
This shows John, and Polycarp, and Irenaeus were looking forward to the stuff written in Revelation. He speaks about it in the future tense.
Originally posted by DISRAELI
But it is interesting that the date is all around Dec 21.
That is one of the things that worries me.
21/12/2012 is a date which has been selected as significant by a sort of coalition of non-Christian religions.
That is a very good reason for Christians not to be jumping on the band-wagon.