Warmonger Thread

I think a likely time when Iran is attacked is between late February and the first weeks of March, latest by March 8th. Unless there is a major earthquake sooner than that.
This is based on Vedic astrology (Iran's chart.)

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by coolieno99

 

The US wasn't involved in that War at that point.

I think you may not appreciate that the major players at that time weren't totally interested in saving Poland. Give the beast something to eat and maybe it'll be full attitude. They hadn't fully grasped the totality of the beast hunger.

President Roosevelt was totally involved as preparing our country for war, the problem was the people like Charles Lindbergh who was a friend of Hitler trying to keep America out of the war. It finally took the Pearl Harbor attack for the majority of the public to get behind the President, don't forget the Lend-Lease agreement was in full swing long before we were "involved".
The Allies could have started gearing up for war when they say the technology that Germany was testing on the battlefields of the Spanish Civil War, my dad said at the time people on the street was saying "we are going to have to fight the 1st war over again!" there was plenty of time to gear up and stop Herr Hitler but the public was a lot like a lot of ATS members and are isolationists at heart.

reply to post by wulff


One thing that always amazes me,, it was Germany and Russia BOTH,, who attacked Poland,,
why everyone forgets that is beyond me,, but more too the point,,
America/England etc,, would have lost,,had Russia AND German remained united,,
A fact that can be speculated,,but i don't think "they" wanted too take that chance at least,, Russia AND Germany together in ww2 would have been a different ball game.

Me.

You are thinking of the Molotow-Ribbentrop Pact?
Officially, the start of WW2 is counted from Aug 1 at dawn when Hitler's troops rolled in - you could tell a day before already because they announced that a radio station was blown up by Poles (which was a false flag operation by Germany). Historians confirmed only much after the war, mostly after the breakup of the Soviet Union that the Soviets had been told about this in advance, and they jumped at the possibility to rolll into Eastern Poland.

That is why people do not keep this so much in public consciousness.

If anyone is interested: Watch the movie The Soviet Story - I think it is free online or on youtube if you google it.
The two superpowers at the time agreed on everything for a while, started out from the same rhetoric, the same propaganda pictures and themes, and - it turns out decades after the war - on the same kind of annihilation and oppression of people.

To reevaluate this problem conflicts very much with our untarnished image. Because the US was in alliance with the Soviet Union against Hitler - and the USSR looked still the lesser of the two evils at the time.
And probably it was, though the film argues that Stalin's regime actually produced far more victims.

What remains is that Nazi Germany was working on the basis of a much more crazy and unsustainable ideology - while the Soviets (later) had a touch of realism.

Comparing it to now is tricky business. See this (partly interactive) presentation by the CFR: CFR presentation on Iran
This is very official, mainstream, and it still admits - at the button I quote above - that the threshold where the Iranian regime crosses the line of a need for a military option by the world is judged differently by Israel and the US.

That has been my perception too.

I got a superhawk in my family.
This person buys the arguments of Israel's hawks and US Fox News unquestioningly due to a sense of paranoia projected into political issues. And argues about it all the time in a very aggressive, loud tone.

It is simple for her. Bomb the s**** out of them and if they strike back bomb even more. Bomb already in response to a rhetoric. Screw all those that have a dissenting opinion - they are misearble traitors to the cause of Israel and the superiority of West.

I asked her about Iraq - well, WMD-s have never been found.
No problem, she says, "I think they are still there they just have not found them yet."

You cannot argue with that kind of total conviction, which is willing to believe obvious lies, too, "in the service of the cause."

Which is not that far from the level of Ahmadinedjad and his total conviction.

Now it is hard for us to understand that all Middle Eastern rhetoric is exaggerating, partisan and includes lying and obfuscation of the facts. Palestinian as well as Israeli and Iranian. It is hard for us because of an unconscious racial-cultural reaction: we can see respectable old white males from Israel talk about issues and we assume they are obviously closer to us than those Muslims with their headscarves.

Well, there is a world of difference. Jews I know who lived in Israel sometimes told me that it IS a thoroughly Middle Eastern country in its attitudes. That is difficult for aliya people to grasp - and the American public has a continuous difficulty grasping and applying this concept too.

Israel and the US are using different lines in the sand.

Europe isn't ready to defend itself and is on the path to being eaten from the bottom up. Their stupid crescent and stars logo should be clue that they aren't on the path to a European pan-national state.

Strike Iran's capacity hard now. Someone has made a deal with the Islamists, and those people don't care about what system they live in since none of the rules apply to them. I'd guess it is the same someone who screwed with the IMF's twenty year leveling plans at the last moment.

Oh yeah - and the history lesson reminded me. I'm not convinced that the players in France are all playing for Europe. I think that they may have their own Archaemedian / Macedonian thing going on.

Watching the CFR link. The sanctions one: James Dobbins, at the end I like how he starts to name off all the major players in the Islamic pan-state who might need to be sanctioned if they start to follow Iran's lead. It made me laugh out loud literally. Does he listen to himself?

So far, lots of "we wish that we had any plan that had any possibility of working. Gosh Darn It."

Mark Fitzpatrick on Preventive Strike: All of the things he listed as being things that would get the US public on side....have all happened.

All the guys at the end: More moderate, reform opinion is ascendant? Guess it depends on your definition of moderate again. Political linguistic games.

At some point you'll ask me why it is that France's policies then would be what are shaping up today.

And I'm going to suggest that they learned well from the Sun King about the use of taboo.

We're talking about the collective unconscious of these nations - not the same as the collective consciousness.
France had all their colonies in Moslem countries.
The crescent in the EU flag may also mean that they expect a lot of refugees from Islamic countries.
Europe's ability to survive may depend on this. It may be useful for EU nations to be more accepting and tolerant - but not to the end of course. It is stupid to ban headscarves or minarets. It is smart to screen for terrorists and extremists. Coutnries from Switzerland to England have all gone to the extreme in both aspects. They allowed obvious ideological maniacs to come to their land, and yet they would screen people for an ordinary habit even if the escaped froma Theocracy.

How would Catholics feel if making the sign of the Cross was outlawed?
France has millions of immigrants, and it is karma. They had to pass laws when they pulled out of Algeria that allowed their several millions to return home. That allows Arabs to come as well - usually those that are willing to be Westernized. Most second-generation Algerians have a clear French identity though and most are nonpracticing. France has always shown a duplicity in the Cold War too. They were against the Soviets yet they supported Romania purely because they felt ethnically they are closer to the French.

Mostly, the true Muslim extremists would either stay home of take part in some terrorism - against parties they feel are blackmailable. We might have to face a Europe that is halfway (secular) Muslim, it is mostly those people that flee that did not find their way of life in their countries of origin. We might also have a large percentage of Israelis. (In Hungary, there is already a pretty large real estate purchase boom done by Israelis. Maybe a lot of them know something.)

When I was in Berlin, Germany two years ago, I felt it was like New York City in the eighties, but without the weapons and the violence. Truly multicultural, plural, colorful, the only taboo was fascism - masses demonstrated against some handful of neofascist in every case. Black kids were playing in German in front of the blocks. The only people that I felt were strictly outside of this - keeping to themselves - were Turkish people in traditional gear. We drank beer in the park - Germans do that. The Turks did not, they were preparing some barbecue. (BTW, Iranians drink just like Europeans - beer and wine and spirits. Obviously their interpretation of Muhammad is different from that of Arabs.) Yet, the alien Turks did not appear aggressive, just foreign. Out of it. When I greeted them in Turkish, they were overjoyed though. I was told the second generation is inevitably Germanized and secular. The wife wers a scarf but not her daughter.
So in the coming world war watch out for the EU and Western relationship with two moderate and largely secular Muslim lands: Turkey and Algeria.

You have a point with France and the Sun King. France is still a Leo country even in Vedic astrology. It disdains ideology and makes pretty dramatic changes when it can play no leading role.

Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by wulff

 

One thing that always amazes me,, it was Germany and Russia BOTH,, who attacked Poland,,
why everyone forgets that is beyond me,, but more too the point,,
America/England etc,, would have lost,,had Russia AND German remained united,,
A fact that can be speculated,,but i don't think "they" wanted too take that chance at least,, Russia AND Germany together in ww2 would have been a different ball game.

Me.

you are absolutely right, people of the allied nations embraced Russia as 'our own' with all our interests together in one big basket. We were lucky Hitler's ambition turned against Russia so soon in the war otherwise we would have had a slim chance against both countries.
My dad said some German prisoners they took told him they were surprised to see Russian units using American built aircraft and tanks (before the T-34 was available in sufficient numbers) when we were well aware of Russia's role in working with Hitler to carve up Poland!
Actually it is a toss-up about who was worse, Hitler or Stalin.... Stalin killed far more people (many his own countrymen!) and encouraged his commanders to let their men rape German women and girls by the thousands!
Very good point on your part, most people don't know how fragile the 'alliance' was between Russia and the other allied countries.

reply to post by seabag


I guess common sense is out the window. The very first thread said, he said she said. That was ridiculous, I was thinking, Idiot, did you not watch the clips? That's their leader saying that.... but hey... no big deal, give em a nuke and through peaceful talks and maybe some golden ruling with our thumbs up our asses, Iran will not build nor use them against us in any shape or form. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! this is the real world...it doesn't matter what we do....other countries and their religions despise our way of life and our beliefs....golden rule and nothing short of a catastrophic event will ever change that. man has been at war since the beginning of time or at least this worlds time cycle. it's documented. religion always is at the head of the list.....

who do you blame for the 93 WTC bombing? our intelligence agency? our government? what did we do to provoke that attack? because we invaded iraq? NO, iraq invaded kuwait, our ally. Congress said, remove them and we did. So that warrants the attack?

Some of you liberals will never understand the real world because you live behind your computer screens....

Nice thread...I don't want radicalists holding nukes either....and it's stupid and naive for anyone to think we should.....golden rule...bullsh*t

Originally posted by Kokatsi
I think a likely time when Iran is attacked is between late February and the first weeks of March, latest by March 8th. Unless there is a major earthquake sooner than that.
This is based on Vedic astrology (Iran's chart.)

You may be right...


The end of Iran is near in the real world. Ahmadinejad and his cronies are one foolish decision away from complete annihilation. The virgins await...

The United States should consider military strikes against not just Iran’s nuclear sites but the entire Iranian Revolutionary Guard infrastructure, argued former CIA director James Woolsey in a radio interview today.

Comparing the Guards to Adolph Hitler’s blackshirts, Woolsey named several “fair game” Guard-related targets, including Iran’s space program, ballistic missile program, training facilities and the Guard’s substantial commercial interests.

The ex-CIA director said the U.S. should consider these military options if Iran blocks the strategic Strait of Hormuz waterway or takes other significant aggressive action.

Link

reply to post by seabag


The Iranian / US stand off seems more like a stand down affair. 99% of the information what we are getting from *all* sides is absolute rubbish.

You should be careful who you are quoting when you are quoting the ex-CIA chief.

Woolsey?? Chairman for the Defense of Democracy? Are you kidding!!

Perhaps you should deny your own ignorance and visit the www.defenddemocracy.org... website to see what kind of experts you are really supporting.

Do you support CIA led foreign insurgencies or are you supporting nationalistic insurgencies against foreign interventions?

Who has the right to self determination? The People of Iran have that right. They don't need the CIA's help this time.

Woolsey?? In his radio interview kleinonline.wnd.com...
He quoted Teddy Roosevelt in saying "speak softly and carry a big stick".

Woolsey?? Equating Iran's government to Adolf Hitler. wow. I am very underwhelmed.

Woolsey?? He is merely a spectator on the global chessboard. Yet Woolsey is predicting overt military strikes.
Woolsey is a war monger.

reply to post by seabag


"But you're fine with adding another nuclear stockpile?? Because allowing Iran to move forward will accomplish exactly that, friend. Iran is a country whose leaders chant DEATH TO AMERICA, DEATH TO ISRAEL, DEATH TO ENGLAND, DEATH TO THE WEST. I think they've demonstrated their intent to use them....at least enough for me. "

..lol.. fear of the boogie-man strikes again. The enemy you don't know exists in your head.

where do you get this stuff ?.. other than from strangers known to lie wars and death into being for profit.

What you call israel, muslims call holy-land.. remind me again why iran would nuke muslim holy land AND the palestinian people they want said holy land returned to?

Would you evict tenants from a house you wanted to live in.. by nuking the house and land?..lol.. probably would if some douche politician belched it was the patriotic thing to do, eh?..lol.. just following amoral orders!.. sir yes sir!

114 nations support irans nuke program, they're not scared.. maybe you shouldn't be either. I'm not.

reply to post by seabag


How come in your avatar,,, the colors are running?

couldn't help it

reply to post by seabag

You may not be banging war drums,Sir. But you do bang a good misguided gong. To state with such confidence that Iran is under no threat from Israel, America or England is very misguided indeed.
There are many questions over American integrity concerning the attack on Pearl Harbour and in the whole second war in general. Furthermore, are American babies still being born deformed today as a result of Japans attack on America?
I would also suggest that you brush up on your knowledge of nuclear weapons. In the 21st century there is a wide range of nuclear weapons. These range from small-scale "tactical" weapons right the way up to the "Team America, hell yeahs!"
The real power behind American foreign policy has had Iran in their sights for years and a "false flag" is just around the corner. I put it to you that Iran is absolutely no threat to America. Closer to the truth, I would suggest, is that Iran is absolutely and justifiably frightened of the, seemingly, relentless American killing machine.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by Kokatsi
I think a likely time when Iran is attacked is between late February and the first weeks of March, latest by March 8th. Unless there is a major earthquake sooner than that.
This is based on Vedic astrology (Iran's chart.)

You may be right...


The end of Iran is near in the real world. Ahmadinejad and his cronies are one foolish decision away from complete annihilation. The virgins await...

The United States should consider military strikes against not just Iran’s nuclear sites but the entire Iranian Revolutionary Guard infrastructure, argued former CIA director James Woolsey in a radio interview today.

Comparing the Guards to Adolph Hitler’s blackshirts, Woolsey named several “fair game” Guard-related targets, including Iran’s space program, ballistic missile program, training facilities and the Guard’s substantial commercial interests.

The ex-CIA director said the U.S. should consider these military options if Iran blocks the strategic Strait of Hormuz waterway or takes other significant aggressive action.

Link

Sounds like you are getting excited already This world is
full of sad, brainwashed people

reply to post by Praetorius


As far as I know, Israel has never wanted to, let alone openly state wipe any nation, people or ideology (unto itself) off the map, so Iran having nukes is "just for a deterrent"? Right...

This topic has alot of speculation but very little fact. Fact...the U.S. is currently preventing the Israelis from Bombing Iranian Nuclear Facilities and the Israelis are screaming Bloody Murder...but we own their ass!

Fact...Iran is 12 to 18 months from total collapse and regime change with current estimates that 90% of the Iranian population most youthful population in the world...is Pro-Democracy and sees standoffs with the west as stupid and seld defeating.

Fact...the U.S. has no desire to attack Iran unless it has to to either protect the water ways or if IRAN declares publicly it has developed a Nuclear Weapon...whether this is true or not. Why would the U.S. want to make enemies out of a people who very shortly will be friends once they oust their leadership.

Fact...China and Russia will not intercede in ANY U.S. Military action against Iran.

Fact...Unless current Iranian Leaders want to commit suicide....there will be no war as the Iranians know....if they try to close the Strait...or Declare they have Nukes...the U.S. will send thousands of Special Forces as well as Airborne Rangers to Secure all Iranian Nuclear sites...then in an effort to prevent civilian casualties...will use High Tech. Powerful Non-Nuclear EMP devices to render any Iranian counter attack mute. The last thing the U.S. wants to do is kill people who want what we want...an end to the madness. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Is this General Norman E Schwartzcough himself?
Just kidding, but really, how are you so sure of these facts?