Warmonger Thread

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by Kokatsi

 

Dyadic thinking will be the death of humanity.

There is never "just two" options in a complex situation.

There are just people whose maximum capacity for thought is two things.

Look, I am not the one that started this thought. I merely describe a perception that is very important for the future of this country.
This is how the late American Emprie looks like to outsiders.

Granted, to see the world only and always in black and white (as most people self-classifed as "warmongers" here actually have been doing all through the thread) is a bit short-sighted.

But sometimes there ARE either-or situations in life.
For one, the OP here implied that it is an either-or situation whether we attack Iran or let unimaginable dangers unfold. Many of us are in disagreement, yet you do not apply your judgement to him - only to me. I suspect that is partisan thinking. You criticize me because you disagree with my thinking, but fail to criticize the OP and supporters of an attack on Iran for doing the same thing much more frequently.

Reminds you of another pattern relevant to the thread? Need a nudge?

(Let me help... both of'em start with a capital I...)

When a group with leadership does the wrong thing consistently, consistently uses a short term goals over long term stability, or whips up support for conflict that isn't necessary they are undermining support for a later time when it is needed for real threats to rights, safety and security.

Which the PTB don't really care about because they'll direct your attention to hate on those people who actually care about those things as the representatives of all the wrong things done.

I would like to thank the fools who fall for it for being fools, and the PTB for being short-term thinking arrogant SOBS.

That is all.

reply to post by Kokatsi


You realize that the Islamic Empire already exists, and you never hate on their actual existant Empire?

They know that they are an Empire. It is referenced in some of their books about Islamic jurisprudence.

I will gladly back an attack on Iran if they don't get off it. The impact of proliferation and terror caused by their goals is unacceptable.

Hmd - I want to thank you so very much.

For a couple of years I have been trying to find some comprehensive texts on Shariah law in word and application by Islamic "scholars."

I've been stymied at the library, and online. Even over mutliple languages. Search terms for finding such a simple thing seem to be blocked from finding the most obvious connected documents.

But conversing with you gave me an idea on how to compound some search terms - and I found them. I finally have good references and books by your own! I am so happy. You cannot imagine how ecstatic I am about it.

Thank you thank you thank you.

CONGRATULATIONS !!!!!

YOU WANT WAR....YOU WILL GET IT!!!

i request all of you to check out an interview with some london guy who was there at some meeting in 2005.
(please read the entire transcript for full details)
"http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/anglo_saxon_mission_interview_transcript_en.html"

SOME EXCERPTS:

Well, the plan is for the fuse to be set off in the Middle East again, in a way that would make the previous conflicts in the Middle East look like playground scraps.
It will involve the use of nuclear weapons and, again, it's to create an atmosphere of chaos and extreme fear, not just in the West but throughout the world, and to put in place what I've mentioned as unified totalitarian Western governments; and to do this China needs to be taken out, politically and socially, for this to happen.

They won't call them totalitarian governments; they'll be military governments with the civil government still there but in a redundant mode. The military will call the shots -- the same way as a general does in Afghanistan, or previously in Iraq. The general in command takes over the scene. He makes the calls.
So we have to imagine the same sort of thing within a country where you've got a military-based civil government, calling the shots, with the so-called elected government almost redundant. The military-based government will provide the security for the people who are living in these countries who have yet to be affected by this type of onslaught.

Well, in a nuclear exchange -- and I believe there will be a limited nuclear exchange -- there will be some sort of ceasefire. That was spoken about; they anticipated a quick ceasefire, but not before millions had already died, principally in the Middle East.
So we're probably talking about Israel here, the population in Israel being sacrificed. Also places like Syria, Lebanon, possibly Iraq, definitely Iran, you know, the towns and major cities, power plants and so forth, that sort of thing. And then a ceasefire before it goes full-out.

SUMMARY:

Iran will be attacked, possibly within 18 months(starting from mar 2010). China will come to the aid of Iran, to protect its own interests. Nuclear weapons will be used either by Iran or China, with Israel provoking the first use. Much of the Middle East will be laid to waste. Millions will die within a very short period of time. And for some reason this is here, and I can't tell you why: China will move forcibly into parts of Russia to extend ceasefire lines. Thereafter, biological weapons will be deployed against China. China will "catch a cold"

According to them iran may have acquired tactical nuke capability...but this war is not about protecting israelis.
This war is about military govts and depopulation.

Project Camelot doesn't inspire me.

Saying something is going to happen in the Middle East or there will be "another damn thing in the Balkans" is like saying the Sun will come up tomorrow.

I doubt pretty much all of that. Unless your friendlies, influential "rulers" have been moved from being in Kuwait to being in Northern Africa, I find this scenario highly unlikely.

reply to post by jaggu1432
well the Bush Cheney had this back in 1999, known as the hawk plan aka "the axis of evil" to half the list www.washingtonpost.com... the others are Afghanistan, Pakistan, China, Libya, and Egypt,oh I forgot Chavez, that is the 9 if you have not read the link it is North Korea, Iran, and Iraq so far the plan has worked, some with US ground troops, some with just US support

Project Camelot eh?

Well, if this project is about depopulation like you said 6.5 billion people have to be exterminated within a reasonable time frame and your measly one million ain't cutting the mustard. Hell more people die every day than the projected figures from Project Camelot.

The military through the use of various models will have to step in and start exterminating people like wildfire. I mean after all going from 7 billion down to a little over 550,000,000 to stabilize global human population growth from the industrial revolution is one hell of a goal.

Lets see... with the total arable land mass of the US being able to support 4 billion and we are now at 300,000,000+.

Depending on how you exterminate/redistribute the people around the globe after Project Camelot's global human decimation....you would then exterminate/redistribute them according to the relative arable land mass of that part of the earth.

The United states having only 18% of it's total land mass being arable.

It seems as if the United States has passed its idea number of humans occupying the land.

A war could do it, but the real drop off would be due to famine, disease, malnutrition, ect basically all of your typical postwar problems.


Interesting...

I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground: That "all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people." To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress, is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition. - Thomas Jefferson


They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. – Benjamin Franklin


Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none. – Thomas Jefferson


A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. – Thomas Jefferson


If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. – Samuel Adams


To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. – Thomas Jefferson

America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She well knows that by enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standards of freedom. – John Quincy Adam


I have ever deemed it fundamental for the United States never to take active part in the quarrels of Europe. Their political interests are entirely distinct from ours. Their mutual jealousies, their balance of power, their complicated alliances, their forms and principles of government, are all foreign to us. They are nations of eternal war. – Thomas Jefferso


Where is it written in the Constitution, in what section or clause is it contained, that you may take children from their parents and parents from their children, and compel them to fight the battle in any war in which the folly or the wickedness of government may engage it?


I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. – Thomas Jefferson






they do not stop.....

I love the america I do not live in and have never known.... I hate the america that should not exist but does

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by Kokatsi

 

You realize that the Islamic Empire already exists, and you never hate on their actual existant Empire?

They know that they are an Empire. It is referenced in some of their books about Islamic jurisprudence.

I will gladly back an attack on Iran if they don't get off it. The impact of proliferation and terror caused by their goals is unacceptable.

edit on 2012/1/19 by Aeons because: (no reason given)

Yes. You are right. However, I think the worst are the Saudis.
Islamic prophecies are just as Theocratic and destructive as end-of-time evangelical Christianity.

If this World War starts - and I think despite all rational arguments it is more likely that it will -, some time from now it will be a shame to be the member of any of the three Abrahamic faiths (Moslem, Christian, Jew).
Like these days very few people will announce openly: "Hey, I'm a Nazi" or, "Hey! I'm a Stalinist!"

One thing ideologues do not contest is the growing conflict of Shia and Sunni.
If we don't attack them, they will attack each other.

Another bad thing about present Iranian governmental attitude is that they support Assad's regime in Syria.
All you have to do is take one look at that man's face.
I think Qaddafi and Saddam were angels compared to him.
Why do they support Assad?
Probably due to the mistaken logic that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

This guy quoted in the Camelot site says what I suspected all along:
Iran already has tactical nukes (and I was afraid to name China when I posted that).
And that Iran is being framed.
And that Israel will be a causalty.

I feel deeply sorry for both cultures.
I love Iranian music and I would have loved to travel to Israel and I have distant relatives there.
Looks like I am too late.

Camelot published some inanities in the UFO field for example but this interview is quite on point.

The founder of the Chinese religious movement Falun Gong, Li Hongzhi had also seen a large-scale biological attack against the Chinese in the future.

Originally posted by Kokatsi
Iran already has tactical nukes (and I was afraid to name China when I posted that).

I kind of agree with you on that, Iran already has a nuclear weapon. Only a country with nuclear weapon would openly threatened to wipe out another country from the map. Iran has been doing nuclear research since the 1980's, so it does have ample time to develop and build a nuke. Or it can just purchased one from either Pakistan or China.

Originally posted by coolieno99

Only a country with nuclear weapon would openly threatened to wipe out another country from the map.
Iran has been doing nuclear research since the 1980's, so

Except they never said that to wipe anyone off the map.

It was started in the eighties(nuclear) then mothballed when Komeni (sp) took over , only restarted a few years ago, so not that much time actually.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

I have never understood why people label the U.S. as the bad guy as another country like Iran goes and throws out Nuclear Inspectors checking out tech the Iranians were sold and could not make on their own.

IMO…It’s because they hate America so much they blame America first. They justify every wrong-doing around the world by saying it’s America’s fault. It’s a SICK and naïve way of thinking, and devoid of all logic. They choose to be intellectually dishonest to further their sick agenda. Little do they know (because they’re dumb) they would bring about their own (our) demise if they called the shots!

They will sit back and talk smack about the injustices of the world and how America is to blame until we are finally dead. Pacifism KILLS!

edit on 19-1-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)

You are obsessed with thinking that if anyone disagrees with you
then that means they are anti american, and thats a load of rubbish!
Because people hate your government, does not mean they hate america.

The sad fact is this, no matter what your government says on why they are
invading this country and that country (middle east) you believe it. All they
have to say is wmd, and thats it, your sold

They said the same rubbish about iraq, which was a lie, just so they could
put their puppet government in place. Same with libya and now iran. Cant you
see the pattern here? All countries with a hell of a lot of oil. And when people start
fighting over this oil, who do you think will benifit? China, russia etc? or the government
that put these pupoets in power?

Also i would like to add this. your goverment invaded iraq because
they said they had evidence (BS) that saddam had weapons. Well, after
we found out that he did not have weapons, people like you said "oh but
he was killing his people" so instead of holding your hands up and saying
" we were wrong" you change the argument to " he was killing his people"

Tell me, why doesnt your government do the same thing to countries outside
the middle east? I tell you why, becayse they have nothing to gain!

reply to post by Jay-morris

Wish I could give 100 stars, first bit of truth in over 30 pages.

I'm not anti-Anyone, but theres a couple Governments I don't care for.

1000 stars and a gaseous nebula, a red hyper giant damn it !

Well, this a very interesting read

It annoys the hell out of me when easily led, brainwashed people
refuse to believe that their governments would never do this, while
coming out with excuses after excuses on why we are slowly taking
control of the middle east!

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Well, this a very interesting read

It annoys the hell out of me when easily led, brainwashed people
refuse to believe that their governments would never do this, while
coming out with excuses after excuses on why we are slowly taking
control of the middle east!

You mean it wasn't for WMD, or they hated our Freedoms , or they wore their Mickey Mouse ears backwards.

Excellent Find sir.

Please make a thread out of this, be the best thread in over a month.

It'll kill the Warmongers though, I'd like that.

reply to post by Tw0Sides

anotherlink They are doing the exact
same thing with iran. But the same brainwashed people
will refuse to believe it.

I would like to take the liberty of making my own observations of some of the best known quoits of our forefathers

I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this ground: That "all powers not delegated to the United States, by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States or to the people." To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress, is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition. - Thomas Jefferson

only works if ones vote counts and the ones voted in do not make laws that say no you can not do that, they have

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. – Benjamin Franklin

the "P Act" DHS, TSA, NDAA2012 SUB SEC D, and with the help of congress and the Pres took care of that, we let them

Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none. – Thomas Jefferson

well this would take a while to sort out but the jest is , Pakistan does make some strange bed fellow for the US does it not

A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government. – Thomas Jefferson

one has to ask... when did we let jobs go over seas, and why are some of our defense contractors getting imports and not making them here?

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. – Samuel Adams

hay wall street this one is for you, PS could I get a loan?

To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. – Thomas Jefferson

this one could be for the obama care, what do you all think?

America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She well knows that by enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standards of freedom. – John Quincy Adams

sadly this does not fit into today's world, the world is sick of US intervention, so world it is time for you to stand by your self or fall

I have ever deemed it fundamental for the United States never to take active part in the quarrels of Europe. Their political interests are entirely distinct from ours. Their mutual jealousies, their balance of power, their complicated alliances, their forms and principles of government, are all foreign to us. They are nations of eternal war. – Thomas Jefferson

well we tried to do just that but FDR for better or worse did not heed your words come to think of it neither did Woodrow Wilson come to think of it NATO comes to mind

Where is it written in the Constitution, in what section or clause is it contained, that you may take children from their parents and parents from their children, and compel them to fight the battle in any war in which the folly or the wickedness of government may engage it?-Daniel Webster

well this one falls to the way side by the selective service act, by the ad on the radio it is a live and well today

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. – Thomas Jefferson

oh yes an other FDR big hit the SS act or social security act to give them that retire a ... oh nope that's not it, it is for the GOV, a big piggy bank to dip in when needed I do hope you have enjoyed some history with as I see it today, as they are applied in today's world