Invisible voiceless gods! Why does modern man still believe?

Originally posted by rosebeforetime
The bible isn't full of good things because it shows the truth, that man is at heart very corruptible.

At least I agree on one thing, people are very corruptible.

How do you that man did not corrupt the original version of the Bible? I truly believe that it has been tampered with over time to suit different views or agendas. "King James Version?"

The dead sea scrolls are proof that the bible is the same today as it was back then. Scrolls were found at a site near the dead sea. These scrolls were the original book of Isaiah. The book of Isaiah is the same as what was found on the dead sea scrolls.

My a$$.

That just means that the book of whatever you said was in the original form, NOT THE WHOLE NOVEL.

If there in no such thing as an all loving Creator, tell me, why is love such a powerful thing. Yet you cant measure it, weigh it, or see it, but it is there all the same.

umm yep thats easy, cause love is an emotion, it's not made up of
physical matter.

Aside from the old 'God works in mysterious ways' excuse, do any of the God-believers want to explain what he was doing a couple of weeks ago while the children were being murdered in that school in Beslan ?

I mean, was it his day off, or what ?

Is it always commonplace for people to blame God for the bad things, yet when good things happen it is accounted as luck?

Originally posted by Moley
Aside from the old 'God works in mysterious ways' excuse, do any of the God-believers want to explain what he was doing a couple of weeks ago while the children were being murdered in that school in Beslan ?

I mean, was it his day off, or what ?

God was being God.

What is the expectation that God has to prevent any kind of horror and death? Regarding "God works in mysterious ways", why do you expect to know why God does what he does? Do you even know why your neighbor does what they do?

Where was God?

God is not responsible for the bad things that happen in this world. It is the evil in man's heart that is responsible. What was God doing? He was greiving right along with the famlies and friends. He was comforting those who would let Him. He was watching in horror, and noting the names of the murderers for judgement day.

Mortis

Originally posted by Mortis
If I say "What are the chances of me having a redheaded step-child?" The answer today would be 100% If I had asked the same question 20 years ago the answer would not be the same.

What are the chances of a protein molecule existing today? 100% sure. But protein molecules have not always existed. Before they existed, what are the odds that one would form purely by CHANCE? Certainly not 100% Apparently more like the number I stated above.

The chances don't become 100% until the moment something occurs.

If you consider our universe to be all that there is of existence then yes the chances of a protein molecule forming would be very small. However, many scientific theories are pointing to the idea of many many universes in existence.

Many scientists also believe our universe is finite instead of infinite. So if this is true then it would be safe to assume that existence beyond our universe is infinite. It "holds" an infinite number of universes all of which are under different conditions. The chance of our universe forming then are 100%.

The conditions of our universe are just as much a possibility as any other condition that does not support life. With all of eternity for all of these possibilities to play out, it is gaurunteed that our universe would come into existence. It is gaurunteed 100% that we would come into existence. And it is gaurunteed 100% that we will exist again in some other universe after this one dies out.

God need not exist for anything that we see. But of course this doesn't mean he doesn't exist either. There is just as much a possibility that instead of a universe forming an intelligent being was formed instead...

Shmick,

I asked you for evidence first, you turing it around in me does not help further your case.

I agree, there are some amazing things out there that seem to make the Bible more like a story than a fact. Dinosaurs among them, however, in the book of Job, it does mention a beast that can be descripbed as a dinosaur.

I believe, and this theory is shared by others, that dinosaurs walked on this planet the same time as man. Why is it that many countries, China, Japan, Europe have medievil tales of dragons that resemble dinosaurs. Where did these tales come from?

Well, you theory has been contested by scientists the last century, and it's been revoked a million times over. Carbon dating has provided significant evidence that Dinosaurs did not walk along side man.

Tibet has legends of the Yeti: does this make it the missing link and prove evolution ?

In terms of valid references regarding evolution vs creation, do a search on google, hundreds of web sites address this and argue their cases. Remember, evolution is still a theory.

Inbetween all this arguing, micro evolution did not heed. Evolution occurs, it's an obervable fact. Granted 'hundreds' of websites adress this, how does this make creationism any more correct than evolution ?

Jesus in the Bible (according to my knowledge) is the only person that makes the claim that he is God. Other religions claim they can point the way to a God. I find this really interesting.

You should read more theology: Krishna claimed to be the Son of God;Hercules was the Son of God; Horus was the son of God; Zorasutra(SP) was the son of God; Countless Egyptian Gods and thier children; I could really go on....

Deep

The dead sea scrolls are proof that the bible is the same today as it was back then. Scrolls were found at a site near the dead sea. These scrolls were the original book of Isaiah. The book of Isaiah is the same as what was found on the dead sea scrolls.

I would refer you to our resident theologin Amadeus for this. Going through his posts, one can gather that the Dead Sea Scrolls, in fact, provided an ample amount of informations not found within the Bible.

Deep

Originally posted by Ezekial

Originally posted by livenlearn
So much so, that I believe if I could purify my mind completely, He literally could and would do anything I ask, as long as it's in His name and it's pure, like even move a mountain before my very eyes.

Oh really huh? Here's a tricky one for you 'o talker to the gods':

Clense your 'mind' and pray for world peace. It's totally selfless and a pure pray.

Now this is a dynamtic experiment, everyone here report back after he does the impossible and tell me if all the wars are over.

I am not joking, you make such strong claims, prove yourself.

Hahaha, guess you didn't read my entry very well. My only point was that I personally feel I've seen enough evidence in my life that God does exist and that He will and can do what He says He can do. Sure, I believe in my little world amongst my family members and friends that He would answer a prayer, but that's because I believe. I'm not gonna test Him in any way. I only thought it would be cool if we could to prove to people once and for all that He does exist. He's not gonna work like that, I don't think anyways. These are only my opinions and why I believe like I do. You believe what you want. Also, I have prayed for our world and this war. I prayed that the leaders of the world be able to see through all the crap that's flying around and make wise decisions. I also understand tho that if it's God's plan to bring the world to war to do defeat certain beliefs or certain idols, then that's what's going to happen regardless of who's president, and etc.......................................................................................

Well, you theory has been contested by scientists the last century, and it's been revoked a million times over. Carbon dating has provided significant evidence that Dinosaurs did not walk along side man.


Carbon dating is not reliable. The ratio of 14C/12C in the atmosphere has not been constant, the massive burning of fossil fuels in the industrial era released a lot of carbon dioxide which was depleted of 14C, this would make things that died appear older. The rise of 14CO with atmospheric testing of atomic bombs in the 1950's would make things appear younger.
the energy of the earths magnetic field has been decreasing so there is more C14 being produced now than in the past.

In other words they test assuming that the amount of 14C has been the same, but it isn't constant so therefore carbon dating is too unreliable.

[edit on 21-9-2004 by rosebeforetime]

[edit on 21-9-2004 by rosebeforetime]

Originally posted by livenlearn

Originally posted by Ezekial

Originally posted by livenlearn
So much so, that I believe if I could purify my mind completely, He literally could and would do anything I ask, as long as it's in His name and it's pure, like even move a mountain before my very eyes.

Oh really huh? Here's a tricky one for you 'o talker to the gods':

Clense your 'mind' and pray for world peace. It's totally selfless and a pure pray.

Now this is a dynamtic experiment, everyone here report back after he does the impossible and tell me if all the wars are over.

I am not joking, you make such strong claims, prove yourself.

Hahaha, guess you didn't read my entry very well. My only point was that I personally feel I've seen enough evidence in my life that God does exist and that He will and can do what He says He can do. Sure, I believe in my little world amongst my family members and friends that He would answer a prayer, but that's because I believe. I'm not gonna test Him in any way. I only thought it would be cool if we could to prove to people once and for all that He does exist. He's not gonna work like that, I don't think anyways. These are only my opinions and why I believe like I do. You believe what you want. Also, I have prayed for our world and this war. I prayed that the leaders of the world be able to see through all the crap that's flying around and make wise decisions. I also understand tho that if it's God's plan to bring the world to war to do defeat certain beliefs or certain idols, then that's what's going to happen regardless of who's president, and etc.......................................................................................

Really? How can I misread ?

Originally posted by livenlearn
So much so, that I believe if I could purify my mind completely, He literally could and would do anything I ask, as long as it's in His name and it's pure, like even move a mountain before my very eyes.

Originally posted by Ezekial

Originally posted by livenlearn

Originally posted by Ezekial

Originally posted by livenlearn
So much so, that I believe if I could purify my mind completely, He literally could and would do anything I ask, as long as it's in His name and it's pure, like even move a mountain before my very eyes.

Oh really huh? Here's a tricky one for you 'o talker to the gods':

Clense your 'mind' and pray for world peace. It's totally selfless and a pure pray.

Now this is a dynamtic experiment, everyone here report back after he does the impossible and tell me if all the wars are over.

I am not joking, you make such strong claims, prove yourself.

Hahaha, guess you didn't read my entry very well. My only point was that I personally feel I've seen enough evidence in my life that God does exist and that He will and can do what He says He can do. Sure, I believe in my little world amongst my family members and friends that He would answer a prayer, but that's because I believe. I'm not gonna test Him in any way. I only thought it would be cool if we could to prove to people once and for all that He does exist. He's not gonna work like that, I don't think anyways. These are only my opinions and why I believe like I do. You believe what you want. Also, I have prayed for our world and this war. I prayed that the leaders of the world be able to see through all the crap that's flying around and make wise decisions. I also understand tho that if it's God's plan to bring the world to war to do defeat certain beliefs or certain idols, then that's what's going to happen regardless of who's president, and etc.......................................................................................

Really? How can I misread ?

Originally posted by livenlearn
So much so, that I believe if I could purify my mind completely, He literally could and would do anything I ask, as long as it's in His name and it's pure, like even move a mountain before my very eyes.

Well, I thought I made it clear what I thought it takes to have a miracle like that happen. It would take, I believe, an extraordinary person to block out all selfishness, all expectations, giving ALL glory to God. I'm by far not in that good a shape. Jesus was. God knows that. Let me ask you a question, have you ever noticed why when you least expect something to happen, it happens? I mean when you really really least expect something to happen, it happens. Has that ever happened to you? Has anyone ever noticed that in their life?

Simple Chaos Theory.

Things happen as a result of everything else happening around the world, there is no devine force that makes things happen. WE make things happen.

Actually, as stated in an earlier post, Jesus not only claimed to be a 'son of God' which was quite common among those seeking to gather a religious following, he was put to death by the Pharisees of the time for claiming that he WAS God, not just a common god, mind you, but GOD ALMIGHTY. Big difference there. He equated himself with God before the tribunal after his arrest in Gethsemane, and claimed several timed throughout his mkinistry to be doing things under 'direct orders from 'The One who sent me' and ' My Father, in heaven'.

Believers of the trinitarian doctrine hold that there is but one GOD, eternally existant (or manifested to mankind) as three distinct persons, working in such a unity that they are in fact, ONE GOD. The Father (God Almighty), The Son (Jesus, also given all power), and the Holy Spirit, which works as the unifier and indweller of the people who call Jesus Savior. A little difficult to really explain thoroughly in human terms, I know.

And for the record:

I am a pentecostal christian, which means I believe actively that the Holy Spirit inhabits the people whom accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. The Spirit then can embue these people with power (to those who seek it) and the evidence of the anointing is the manifestation of these people, while praying, can rather easily 'speak in other tongues'. I have been documented as speaking Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic during such times. I have no knowledge of any of these languages, outside of the occasion al word.

Simple Chaos Theory.

Things happen as a result of everything else happening around the world, there is no devine force that makes things happen. WE make things happen.

So what do you believe "caused" the world to happen?

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Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you will have been, and there you will always long to return.
-Leonardo da Vinci

Such is the nature of human beings. Which is why so many believe in a Heavenly Father from which they came. For there we have been, and there we will always long to return.

Mortis

Originally posted by Mortis
So what do you believe "caused" the world to happen?

Simple. Chaos Theory. No higher being, commonly refered to as 'god' for those insecure about their lives.

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Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you will have been, and there you will always long to return.
-Leonardo da Vinci

No it refers to the fantastic feeling of flying. Flying is one of the best feelings ever, breaking all the rules that physics governerned us with. We were never supposed to fly. But our intelligence made it possible.



[edit on 23-9-2004 by Ezekial]

Originally posted by Xeven
If their were gods wouldnt they say hello or at least do some minor thing to let us know they are more than a mass illusion?

Personally, I don't know what to believe as far as God is concerned.

However, at the present, I think it much more likely that he does exist. You ask for some minor thing to let us know he exists.....

Well, what do you call all of existance? Just try to think about it for a second. If there is NO God, then how was EVERYTHING - be it the planets and stars, atoms protons nuetrons electrons, or our very abillity of free will - created?

The very definition of God is an all powerfull creator. The problem is that humans have this need to humanize God. Think outside the box - if YOU were all knowing and all powerfull would you not think or act differently? You wouldn't try to prove to a bunch of humans you exist. Or maybe he has, and we are just to stupid to see it.

Basically WHO KNOWS? You can't. But if you look at the circumstantial evidance - that is, EVERYTHING, I would put my money on Gods existance. Besides, I'd rather believe in God and be wrong then NOT believe in him and be wrong!