Invisible voiceless gods! Why does modern man still believe?

a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

Boring?! Well you've come off the wall to floor me a
number of times Cog so... I guess I'll just say that.

And disagree.

a reply to: Xeven


Do a little reading

I always tell people to start with

" the case for a creator"

That will ease your mind a little

a reply to: Xeven
Assuming death anxiety is the root of belief then what about atheists?

This study shows atheists have death anxiety too, and it increases their unconscious belief in god:
www.sciencedaily.com - Death anxiety increases atheists' unconscious belief in God...

Deaht anxiety also increases atheists belief in science:
www.sciencedirect.com - Scientific faith: Belief in science increases in the face of stress and existential anxiety...

This shows people can find meaning in naturalism:
phys.org - Death anxiety prompts people to believe in intelligent design, reject evolution: research...

The question is does the first linked study apply even after people find meaning in naturalism? Do people still unconsciously believe more in a god despite a discovery of meaning in naturalism?

What the studies show is probably all of us have death or existential anxiety. How we solve it depends. Religion, naturalism, or whatever.

My own personal belief is this is all rooted not just in our own suffering but in everybody's. All of the disasters we see, manmade or not, and people who die and the things they go through and all of our memories, all of it makes us question the source of reality. It better be something good because all this suffering and loss better have an worthy explanation. And note this doesn't mean evolution can't be a worthy explanation.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

i read somewhere that consciousness is an universal property that originates on a subatomic level in the very fabric of existence.

In many ways, consciousness (or some fundamental principle that allows for it) being fundamental, makes sense. It could be that it is inherent in some way, but takes a nervous system to manifest biologically speaking, in the way we think of it? It's obviously an emergent property of biology/evolution, but possibly more to it than that?

Understanding consciousness could be the one of the last frontiers of science. While the work of people like Penrose/Hammeroff is considered a "pixie dust" explanation (I find some of the implications a bit OTT), research in this area is still worthwhile IMO. Not only that it might one day bring this subject from the area of philosophy to genuine science, but a real understanding could also revolutionise certain aspects of medical science and possibly alleviate a lot of suffering.

thats why i hesitate to call it supernatural because for all we know its not only perfectly natural but inevitable. i wouldnt refer to that consciousness as a deity though. i cant imagine it even thinking actively let alone expounding to ephemereal peons on morality.

I agree. Once anything is understood it can no longer be thought of as supernatural. It is one of the reasons I don't believe in any religious notions of god as some creator/ meddler (well that and common sense lol) which adds nothing by way of explanation, but generally runs counter to observation and what we can explain. In fact (IMO) this would indicate the very opposite of something that meddles in human affairs, or makes choices, but something far more amazing than that. Somehow any religious notions of "god" would seem superfluous and inferior.

Though again, it's possible to read too much into experience this way. Whole thing could be an intricate illusion.

a reply to: jonnywhite

Lol death anxiety isnt at the root of belief

Living in a designed universe is

See my above post

And lose the anxiety

originally posted by: randyvs

And disagree.

That's fair enough Randy.

It's not really belief in a god that I object to, I can see where people could have good reasons for their belief (in a personal sense). It's claims of fact with nothing to back it up, or even worse, misrepresenting science to support it like creationists do (pseudo science). Though probably the worst of all, the indoctrinating of young minds. This makes organised religion very cultish.

Sp physics. Chemistry and neuroscience are pseudo now


Good to know


a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

originally posted by: jonnywhite

My own personal belief is this is all rooted not just in our own suffering but in everybody's. All of the disasters we see, manmade or not, and people who die and the things they go through and all of our memories, all of it makes us question the source of reality. It better be something good because all this suffering and loss better have an worthy explanation. And note this doesn't mean evolution can't be a worthy explanation.

Very interesting studies.

I agree with this in many ways. Religious belief has a strong correlation to societal conditions as does secular/non theism based beliefs. Healthier societies equates to less belief in god and more acceptance of secular principles/ scientific explanations and vice versa. This is the trend in basically the entire western world. It's fascinating.

This is a great study. Religious people seem to ignore it, which is a shame really.

Aside from the role it is playing in the culture war between traditionalist faith and secular modernity, the extensive, rapid, and voluntary loss of popular religious devotion due to the advent of suitably benevolent 1st world socioeconomic conditions provides critical information that is needed to better understand some of the basic questions surrounding the psychology and evolution of popular religious devotion.

It follows that all hypotheses that religious belief and practice are the normal, deeply set human mental state that is highly resistant to
conversion to nontheism are unverified. Instead popular religion is in the main a superficial psychological response that seeks the daily aid and protection of supernatural entities to alleviate the stress and anxiety created by a sufficiently dysfunctional social and especially economic environment. Other potential causes of large-scale religiosity, including fear of death and genetics, are at best secondary factors that only operate effectively when the socioeconomic situation is defective to the required degree.

www.epjournal.net...

originally posted by: Another_Nut
Sp physics. Chemistry and neuroscience are pseudo now


Good to know

Of course not.

When they are used dishonestly as a basis to justify a belief/ imaginary sky fairy as if it exists as a fact, then they are being used as part of a belief based pseudo science (ie. creation "science").


No probs.

This topic was started in 2004, i m sure 2014 is already different. there are more and more people questioning things. God from bibles or kuran or whatever book written thousand of years ago sure don't hold a water any more.

People started questioning. My country is heavy Christian country, but not really so much into God, but more into church. Like Church is god. But less and less people follow that.

Everyone knows there is something out that they can not explain, some invisible force that do some magic at some time. When people get ill or lose all hope, they call for a GOD. I know i would call for a GOD, but that is not the god from any of the book, it is not a god from church that you need to pay. You can not buy god.

People need to evolve, they need to start thinking with they heads and be immune to all bull # they read in newspaper, internet or on TV. Only that way they will see the true force.

Invisible god in religions are nothing more than mind control. Just go to church and watch people say same prayers over and over again and not one of them really think about words they are saying and what those words mean. they go to church because they go to church.

I don't talk about other religions because i m not familiar with them, but i have see they use same methods but with different words. I think that is the key to mind control masses.

once whole world drops religions and act like this is just santa claus or fairy tale, then we as humans will evolve.

God is not silent. he speaks loud and clearly through selfless love.

originally posted by: Cogito, Ergo Sum

originally posted by: Another_Nut
Sp physics. Chemistry and neuroscience are pseudo now


Good to know

Of course not.

When they are used dishonestly as a basis to justify a belief/ imaginary sky fairy as if it exists as a fact, then they are being used as part of a belief based pseudo science (ie. creation "science").


No probs.

jonathan wells phd phd

Stephen meyer phd physics

William lane craig phd thd the kalam cosmological argument

Robin collins phd

Guillermo gonzalez phd

Jay wesley richards phd

Michael j behe phd chemistry


Just to name a few of those "psudo" scientists who happen to be world famous , at the top of their respected fields

And creationists

Your stance has fallen behind the science of the day

Time for u to do a little reading

Man believes in invisible gods because he needs reason and purpose to his existence also because he is small and afraid.

originally posted by: Another_Nut
jonathan wells phd phd

Stephen meyer phd physics

William lane craig phd thd the kalam cosmological argument

Robin collins phd

Guillermo gonzalez phd

Jay wesley richards phd

Michael j behe phd chemistry


Just to name a few of those "psudo" scientists who happen to be world famous , at the top of their respected fields

And creationists

Your stance has fallen behind the science of the day

Time for u to do a little reading

Thanks for that. I actually got a good belly laugh. There's some good reasons why religious institutions should not be allowed to educate amongst that list. Can't help noticing some are members of that fine (ahem) academic institution the "Discovery Institute"...no pseudo science there lol. There's some careers made there literally out of pretending that fairy tales are real. If god was made of hot air, they would have talked him into existence long ago.

You mightn't have noticed but "intelligent Design" has already been deemed not science. Wikipedia gets this one right.

The Discovery Institute (DI) is a non-profit public policy think tank based in Seattle, Washington, best known for its advocacy of the pseudoscience "intelligent design"