A few questions for those who believe that UFO's are manned by interstellar fairing aliens.

Originally posted by ZardoZx
Consider this- just 100 years ago humans main mode of transportation was a horse and cutting edge travel was the just budding airplane and cross country trains.

Now we can hop on a plane a be any where in the word in just hours..We've been to the moon. We've sent vehicles to other planets..

As we learn to master gravity dont you think we will pick up a few tricks to master inertia?

In 1879 the telephone was invented.. almost 100 years later in 1973 the first portable cell phone was invented..
Today our high-schoolers calculators have more memory than the first space shuttle..
Cell phones that fit in our pocket can complete tasks that a large household desktop could have dreamed of doing in 1997. We can have a face to face conversation live with somebody across the planet from a device that fits in our pocket!

If we showed somebody from 300 years our technology today they would probably consider us to be capable of unnatural/godlike feats

Consider where we are and where we will be in 100 years..

Now the question on why would they care enough to spy on us?
Why do we study wildlife? Why do our scientists spend vast amounts of resources to study frog species in the amazon? Why do college students study sociology in both modern and third world countries?

Also, your third question answers your first question.

Uummm??? No

"No" on the mastering inertia part. Its ok to blame hollywood for you misconception of reality.

What humans have accomplished here on earth is an injustice for understanding the entails, let alone perform ,of space exploration.

What you have is hope,imagination and faith . Which is great but your setting yourself up for a big disappointment. And that disappointment will happen on your last year of your life. When You'll finally realize that we are still not even close for man to travel pass our moon. ..Use your logic to police your hope and imagination.


You think humans have come a long way ???... But we really haven't. We have been recycling known knowledge over and over. If You haven't noticed we are just part of a machine ,,a massive assembly line per'se.


I suggest you really learn about space and its hostile characteristics.

Originally posted by dilly1
And there are 3 ways needed to travel in space- Infinite space:
*obtaining light speed or another form of warp speed for short distances.
*having the ability to use worm-holes(one's personal event horizon) for long distances.
*the ability to stop aging. Becoming immortal.

This is true if you're talking about physical matter/energy as we currently understand it, also our understanding of what it means to "travel." A bit of that matter/energy going from one "place" to another "place" in a certain amount of "time." Our current assumptions are based on our perceptions and limited definitions, and we all know how reliable those are. Questionable, to say the least.

reply to post by dilly1


Ah but your basing everything only from the standpoint of "What we know thus far as Humans when it comes to Physics...", not to mention all the other forms of science.
Just because it's our present state of Knowledge, doesn't mean we've figured out everything...
"Universal" is a term for what we now know... so far.
If they are that advanced, the things they would be able to perform would defy our imaginations.
Look at how far technologically we've advanced in a short period.
...And we are advancing rapidly, it may not seem that way, but we are.
The stuff we do today would seem the stuff of Dreams 50 yrs ago... hell even 10 yrs ago.
So it's not hard to imagine that an "Advanced" civilization probably broke those barriers long ago.
They have been interacting with us for a long time, just on a different level.

Originally posted by alienreality
reply to post by dilly1

 

Your reply is a perfect example of how successful disinformation and brainwashing has been when it comes to space travel and the decades of military and government ufo debunking..

And you used the thread to announce your negative feelings about Christians , another fail..


All the problems about space travel in the OP have been discussed by many world class physicists for quite some time now, and they aren't really a problem at all as a little bit of reading would show you...

It is all about using gravitational or magnetic forces to lower your inertia to zero, or near zero.... Study that idea and you should understand how simple long distance space travel could be.. (if you have the hardware and knowhow)...

Ahhh, does someone have thin skin.


What disinformation?

Care to explain: if space travel is so easy why we haven't traveled passed our moon?

I don't have negative feelings about anyone ,let alone christians. I was using them as an example.


And world class physicist deal with theories . Not facts. My three points are logical and factual. Your gravitational/magnetic comment is a theory WHEN applying it to space travel. Look that up.

Originally posted by dilly1
Care to explain: if space travel is so easy why we haven't traveled past our moon?

Actual travel in space is easy. The problems are getting started, stopping when you get to where you're going, and getting back. Space is pretty empty, and once you're there and up to speed, you can go forever. You'll die after a while, of course. But actually moving through space is a piece of cake.

Originally posted by Numb2itall
reply to post by dilly1

 

Ah but your basing everything only from the standpoint of "What we know thus far as Humans when it comes to Physics...", not to mention all the other forms of science.
Just because it's our present state of Knowledge, doesn't mean we've figured out everything...
"Universal" is a term for what we now know... so far.
If they are that advanced, the things they would be able to perform would defy our imaginations.
Look at how far technologically we've advanced in a short period.
...And we are advancing rapidly, it may not seem that way, but we are.
The stuff we do today would seem the stuff of Dreams 50 yrs ago... hell even 10 yrs ago.
So it's not hard to imagine that an "Advanced" civilization probably broke those barriers long ago.
They have been interacting with us for a long time, just on a different level.

edit on 13-1-2012 by Numb2itall because: My grammar sux

No,, I am saying to perform my three points one must create or obtain new physics.

*Is light speed the speed limit of the universe: yes. Which anything faster will create an event horizon. Which leads to the next point

* Do worm holes exist: yes. But they exist in the quantum level. Meaning new physics is needed.

* is having a biological clock a deterrent to exploring an infinite universe. Hell Yes. The first two points need new physics and third requires new medicine for one even to try the first two points.


How do you know there are other forms of science? I think there is but no one knows.

I am not saying I have figured out anything. I am saying to travel in space there's certain points needed to master and to be successful in an infinite space.

We have not advanced very far in technology. You think we have but we really haven't. Having a bad ass iphone doesn't mean we have come a long way.

Your last statement is total hope and imagination, which is fine just make sure you don't lose your logical perspective.

Cheers.

Originally posted by dilly1I suggest you really learn about space and its hostile characteristics.

You're really wasting your time. These "believers" have got to be some of the most ignorant and arrogant people I've ever seen. They talk so chiefly on physics when they most probably failed Algebra II in high school. They expect scientists to throw out every law of physics just because they saw something that contradicts these laws. Just look at some of these answers on inertia and gravity. What next, Maxwell's equations are wrong, c is not a constant, and light is not the universal speed limit of the universe?

Is it a wonder that most scientists roll their eyes and sigh when talking to these people?

Originally posted by Blue ShiftActual travel in space is easy. The problems are getting started, stopping when you get to where you're going, and getting back. Space is pretty empty, and once you're there and up to speed, you can go forever. You'll die after a while, of course. But actually moving through space is a piece of cake.

Avoiding tiny, insignificant micrometeorites that can travel 10,000+ mi/h and could collide with the impact of 3 fusion nuclear bombs, let alone the much larger space debris with an equally larger momentum and let's not forget about high radiation levels in deep space.

Originally posted by Diablos

Originally posted by dilly1I suggest you really learn about space and its hostile characteristics.

You're really wasting your time. These "believers" have got to be some of the most ignorant and arrogant people I've ever seen. They talk so chiefly on physics when they most probably failed Algebra II in high school. They expect scientists to throw out every law of physics just because they saw something that contradicts these laws. Just look at some of these answers on inertia and gravity. What next, Maxwell's equations are wrong, c is not a constant, and light is not the universal speed limit of the universe?

Is it a wonder that most scientists roll their eyes and sigh when talking to these people?

I agree...

I already asked the mods to reconfigure the sub forums and place all UFO threads with Military or Engineering sub forums. The sad part I enjoy analyzing UFO's and try to see what new-human ingenuity is happening next. But my "practical-realistic" excitement is tarnished by this delusional alien jargon.


"Modern Aliens visiting earth theory" is really a waste of human time. Very sad.

With regard to the motives of any proposed extraterrestrial visitors it may be worth considering the phrase: you can't understand politics unless you have experienced hunger

If such visitors could master intergalactic travel then it seems likely they would have also mastered the production of any resources necessary for their survival in outer space; moreover they may be entirely specialised for life in outer space

And if they are some species of von Neumann probe then they might have a very specific modus operandi with limited autonomy. We could be ascribing conscious motives to what are just highly sophisticated computers

reply to post by dilly1

Your last statement is total hope and imagination, which is fine just make sure you don't lose your logical perspective.

Ha ha, nope. My last statement comes from experience and reality.

My logical perspective is exactly what I am using.

When you have an experience (and I truly hope you do), like many of us... when you touch & smell and think your at the very point of losing your marbles, your thinking will change, and you will know that there is way more than just what your Ego is telling you.
I hope you find peace in your box.

Originally posted by dilly1

Originally posted by ZardoZx

If we showed somebody from 300 years our technology today they would probably consider us to be capable of unnatural/godlike feats

Consider where we are and where we will be in 100 years..

Uummm??? No

"No" on the mastering inertia part. Its ok to blame hollywood for you misconception of reality.

What humans have accomplished here on earth is an injustice for understanding the entails, let alone perform ,of space exploration.

What you have is hope,imagination and faith . Which is great but your setting yourself up for a big disappointment. And that disappointment will happen on your last year of your life. When You'll finally realize that we are still not even close for man to travel pass our moon. ..Use your logic to police your hope and imagination.


You think humans have come a long way ???... But we really haven't. We have been recycling known knowledge over and over. If You haven't noticed we are just part of a machine ,,a massive assembly line per'se.


I suggest you really learn about space and its hostile characteristics.

Trust me. I'm well aware of space and its "hostile characteristics. Its okay to blame your arrogance on why you need to try to demean vague statements I made reminding the OP of human progress.

Use your logic to police your condescending nature.

Everything I said had scientific merit and no where did I say "WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY TO COUNTERACT INERTIA" but.. I firmly believe we WILL have the ability to counteract some of the forces so 90 degree turns can be made.

also..
To say we as humans haven't made progress is absolutely the most ignorant statement ive seen in these forums. Maybe we still might be #-shows from a social and cultural stand point (your demeanor is a fine example of that) But considering I can even type this from my house and post here for the world to see is a fine example of human ingenuity... and granted our understanding of the universe is still primitive at best we are a fairly new in the "scheme of things"

and if you actually believe we are incapable of sending a man pass the moon, my friend you must be misinformed.. but sadly only you can bring yourself out of your bubble and into the 'reality' of our current situation, and for me to say anything else would be useless because you seem to have already made up your mind.

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist
Question #4: Given the large astronomical distances that would separate us from aliens, when aliens embark on a journey to Earth, wouldn't hundreds or thousands of years pass on their home-planet by the time it takes for a one-way trip? The relativistic kinematics equations tell us the aliens aboard the star-ships would experience time dilation, so they are unaffected, but what about those on their home-planet? In essence, all of their colleagues and friends/family they knew will most likely be long dead and there is no guarantee that their civilization would even exist over such long time intervals. Why would an advanced civilization risk and compromise all of that just to spy on humans for a few seconds?

This would only make sense if they were all migrating off of their home planet.

You speak about relativity and you don't even understand it...
You said in a previous post that the only link between space and time that has been observed was black hole... You can't be more wrong on that point... 1) Black hole can't be observed, you can only see what's spinning around and slowly get swallowed by it... 2) Gravity is linked to mass, and mass is directly linked to time... this has been observed here on earth already... Take 2 atomic clocks (atomics so you don't blame precision), sync them together... Send one of them to earth's orbit (where you have zero or near zero gravity) for 1 year, take it back, and compare the two clock... Guess what ? They won't be synched anymore ! The one that was on orbit will have a few seconds of advance compared to the one that stayed on earth
You really should do your homeworks and do a little search before starting a believers trolling thread with a so poor argumentation.

Originally posted by ZardoZxand if you actually believe we are incapable of sending a man pass the moon, my friend you must be misinformed.. but sadly only you can bring yourself out of your bubble and into the 'reality' of our current situation, and for me to say anything else would be useless because you seem to have already made up your mind.

edit on 13-1-2012 by ZardoZx because: (no reason given)

It cost $10,000 to send a 1 lb of mass into orbit. Even if we had the money to blow on resources to build and fuel a nuclear ramjet engine, build "force fields" to shield against space debris, there is still the problem of physiological degeneration such as muscle atrophy, skeletal deterioration, compromised immune and cardiovascular system, and much more. When astronauts who have been aboard the ISS come back after a year, despite a rigorous exercise program, they can't even do something as simple as crawling due to their damaged bodies. Looks like we also need to have the space ship to rotate on its axis while translating through the depths of space to maintain a constant 1G acceleration for the crew.

You can have all of the money and resources in the world and still wouldn't be able to build such a ship. I'm sorry, but man will most likely never make it to the stars.

Originally posted by Diablos

Originally posted by Blue ShiftActual travel in space is easy. The problems are getting started, stopping when you get to where you're going, and getting back. Space is pretty empty, and once you're there and up to speed, you can go forever. You'll die after a while, of course. But actually moving through space is a piece of cake.

Avoiding tiny, insignificant micrometeorites that can travel 10,000+ mi/h and could collide with the impact of 3 fusion nuclear bombs, let alone the much larger space debris with an equally larger momentum and let's not forget about high radiation levels in deep space.

Because of the relative lack of distortion and light diffusion seen from distant starlight, it's generally accepted that once you get away from stars and into interstellar space, it's insanely empty. Besides, you'll run out of food and water long before you get roasted by high radiation. Actually, one of the more safe and efficient ways to travel through space -- although steering is a bit of a problem -- is by riding through it on a large spherical mass with a protective atmosphere and magnetic field that regenerates a lot of its resources through a carbon cycle.

Originally posted by Ghostfreak1
You speak about relativity and you don't even understand it...
You said in a previous post that the only link between space and time that has been observed was black hole... You can't be more wrong on that point... 1) Black hole can't be observed, you can only see what's spinning around and slowly get swallowed by it... 2) Gravity is linked to mass, and mass is directly linked to time... this has been observed here on earth already... Take 2 atomic clocks (atomics so you don't blame precision), sync them together... Send one of them to earth's orbit (where you have zero or near zero gravity) for 1 year, take it back, and compare the two clock... Guess what ? They won't be synched anymore ! The one that was on orbit will have a few seconds of advance compared to the one that stayed on earth
You really should do your homeworks and do a little search before starting a believers trolling thread with a so poor argumentation.

Dude, you really need to work on your reading comprehension. The OP isn't saying black holes could be observed, but that black holes are the only phenomena that cause visible affects on space time. Every average joe knows or should know that all mass in space bends spacetime, let alone a physicist or a physics student. The rest of your post is just...rambling and an attack against logic. It seems any attempt at critical thinking here is dubbed as an attempt to "troll" believers and they are obviously either debunkers or paid shills.

Originally posted by Diablos
You can have all of the money and resources in the world and still wouldn't be able to build such a ship. I'm sorry, but man will most likely never make it to the stars.

edit on 13-1-2012 by Diablos because: (no reason given)

If Earth can maintain 1% growth for 1000 years that is about 20,000 times higher GDP. Sending a probe to a nearby star might not seem so ridiculous. A human lifespan might be 1000 years by then, so waiting 1000 years for a probe to travel at a realistic speed might not be unreasonable. (I suppose a futuristic probe could reach a star in 1000 years because our 1970's probes can get there in tens of thousands of years.)

(I'm not saying we would send humans of course. That would make it impractical.)

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist

Although the U.F.O. phenomenon is true, i believe that these sightings are not of Extra-Terrestrial origin. It is my belief that those U.F.O´s are advance military drones/planes. Nevertheless, i would like to try answer your questions.

1. Many people have claimed that UFO's can accelerate 90 degrees relative to their position and other maneuvers that contradict the underlying physical principles of current propulsion technology. What many scientists have concluded is that such aerial maneuvering can create gravitational forces so great (hundreds of times that of Earth) and would flatten any living creature like a pancake. Your take on this?

Although i am sure there are many theories, that addressing that problem, in my opinion however, there are unmanned U.F.O´s.

2. To cross the vast distances of the stars, it is known without a doubt that any engine that is used would need to be extremely vast and thus requires a huge star ship. Most UFO reportings are of objects from as small as 3 m across to a one mile. Such machinery is not capable of achieving the high speeds required to cover the astronomical distances in a feasibly short time, and any advanced civilization capable of travelling to the stars would not waste such high amounts of energy or a long time to just spy on humans. Your take on this?

Who knows, maybe their mother-ship is hiding somewhere. Maybe they came ages ago. Or maybe, they are using some kind of Teleportation device, to travel from one point to another, without the need to traverse the physical space between. After all in theory everything is possible.

3. An alien civilization capable of travelling to the stars has most likely mastered the physics of optics, and have cloaking technology at their disposal. Not only that, but they have also most likely mastered nanotechnology and the many other scientific areas that we have yet to even begin to slightly understand. In practice, would it not be feasible to have unmanned, cloaked aircraft that are very small but sufficient enough to serve the purpose of spying on humans?

I do not think E.T´s are the ones who spying on us. It´s the government who does that. The only thing that i find interesting, is that those U.F.O´s are been spotted with our primitive technology such as radars,cameras etc. If those U.F.O´s are really so advanced wouldn´t been logical to assume that they would remain completely undetected?

Peace

When you stop making theories, arguments and "proofs" derived from the assumption that aliens have the physical and mental characteristics and understandings of humans, you will find all your answers.

The fact is, we know nothing about what could be out there, or their capabilities.

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist

1. What many scientists have concluded is that such aerial maneuvering can create gravitational forces so great (hundreds of times that of Earth) and would flatten any living creature like a pancake. Your take on this?

i'm not exactly sure, but my initial thought was some device or process able to cut through the matter that creates the gravitational pull ..

2. To cross the vast distances of the stars, it is known without a doubt that any engine that is used would need to be extremely vast and thus requires a huge star ship. Most UFO reportings are of objects from as small as 3 m across to a one mile. Such machinery is not capable of achieving the high speeds required to cover the astronomical distances in a feasibly short time, and any advanced civilization capable of travelling to the stars would not waste such high amounts of energy or a long time to just spy on humans. Your take on this?

stupidly out of the box on this one, but maybe a shrink ray?
or created out of currently unknown malleable substance?
maybe they don't use propulsion? maybe they can transfer across any distance made of matter.
like a surfer riding a wave. through the atoms electronically like an electric current through a wire. lol

would it not be feasible to have unmanned, cloaked aircraft that are very small but sufficient enough to serve the purpose of spying on humans?

AI probe robotics with hubble optic capability. within our scope of thought, so yes, it's possible.