A few questions for those who believe that UFO's are manned by interstellar fairing aliens.

1. Many people have claimed that UFO's can accelerate 90 degrees relative to their position and other maneuvers that contradict the underlying physical principles of current propulsion technology. What many scientists have concluded is that such aerial maneuvering can create gravitational forces so great (hundreds of times that of Earth) and would flatten any living creature like a pancake. Your take on this?
2. To cross the vast distances of the stars, it is known without a doubt that any engine that is used would need to be extremely vast and thus requires a huge star ship. Most UFO reportings are of objects from as small as 3 m across to a one mile. Such machinery is not capable of achieving the high speeds required to cover the astronomical distances in a feasibly short time, and any advanced civilization capable of travelling to the stars would not waste such high amounts of energy or a long time to just spy on humans. Your take on this?
3. An alien civilization capable of travelling to the stars has most likely mastered the physics of optics, and have cloaking technology at their disposal. Not only that, but they have also most likely mastered nanotechnology and the many other scientific areas that we have yet to even begin to slightly understand. In practice, would it not be feasible to have unmanned, cloaked aircraft that are very small but sufficient enough to serve the purpose of spying on humans?

I'll come up with more questions as the thread progresses.

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist
1. Many people have claimed that UFO's can accelerate 90 degrees relative to their position and other maneuvers that contradict the underlying physical principles of current propulsion technology. What many scientists have concluded is that such aerial maneuvering can create gravitational forces so great (hundreds of times that of Earth) and would flatten any living creature like a pancake. Your take on this?
2. To cross the vast distances of the stars, it is known without a doubt that any engine that is used would need to be extremely vast and thus requires a huge star ship. Most UFO reportings are of objects from as small as 3 m across to a one mile. Such machinery is not capable of achieving the high speeds required to cover the astronomical distances in a feasibly short time, and any advanced civilization capable of travelling to the stars would not waste such high amounts of energy or a long time to just spy on humans. Your take on this?
3. An alien civilization capable of travelling to the stars has most likely mastered the physics of optics, and have cloaking technology at their disposal. Not only that, but they have also most likely mastered nanotechnology and the many other scientific areas that we have yet to even begin to slightly understand. In practice, would it not be feasible to have unmanned, cloaked aircraft that are very small but sufficient enough to serve the purpose of spying on humans?

I'll come up with more questions as the thread progresses.

1. They don't experience "time" the way we do. Time is relative to the observer.
2. See above.
3. If you have no enemies, why hide.

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist
I'll come up with more questions as the thread progresses.

Nah its okay we been over this in a few hundred thread

And the high speed maneuvers of translucent shape shifting blurry or glowing orb like UFO's are Plasma Critters. They don't feel inertia as they are energy critters

And those account for about 80%ish of sightings

Originally posted by litterbaux
1. They don't experience "time" the way we do. Time is relative to the observer.
2. See above.
3. If you have no enemies, why hide.

Are your answers even addressing my questions? My questions had nothing to do with time or the concept of time, but gravitational forces and the huge gravitational forces generated by such aerial manuevers and the fact that it could flatten ANY living being.

As for your 3rd answer, why do these mystical UFO's often disappear after a few seconds of video recording? Clearly, assuming they are manned, they don't like human attention and appear to prefer to do their observations from the shadows, that is, if a civilization millions of years advanced is indeed visiting us and truly have nothing better to do with their time.

I'm by no means an expert, but I shall give you my take on it.

1. As I understand it, the occupants do not feel inertial forces because they do not travel through space but rather fold the fabric of spacetime to arrive at their destination.

2. Many speculate that the classic "disk" shaped UFO is a scout ship which docks with a larger (possibly cylindrical or cigar shaped) mothership. The question of their motivation for visiting requires a knowledge of alien thought processes which nobody can reasonably posses and therefore speculation about which is precarious at best.

3. Who is to say that such technology isn't here already observing us? Remote viewers have reported similar objects ("quarantine enforcers") for some time now. Such objects do not necessarily preclude the existence of manned aircraft however.

edit: sorry, double post

Originally posted by zorgonI'll come up with more questions as the thread progresses.

Nah its okay we been over this in a few hundred thread

And the high speed maneuvers of translucent shape shifting blurry or glowing orb like UFO's are Plasma Critters. They don't feel inertia as they are energy critters

And those account for about 80%ish of sightings

edit on 13-1-2012 by zorgon because: (no reason given)

And this is why the UFO community will never be taken seriously. Any attempt to ask valid questioning of the scientific laws these UFO's naturally obey is hand-waved by the UFO"logists" with such nonsensical explanations such as "antigravity". Plasma critters? That is definitely a new one I'm going to be adding to the list.

Originally posted by dimethylmercury
3. Who is to say that such technology isn't here already observing us? Remote viewers have reported similar objects ("quarantine enforcers") for some time now. Such objects do not necessarily preclude the existence of manned aircraft however.

Evidence from "something remote viewers have said" must be a new low in standards.

You might as well ask a rapist what women like.

Originally posted by humphreysjim

Evidence from "something remote viewers have said" must be a new low in standards.

You might as well ask a rapist what women like.

Then feel free to discard it, you undoubtedly already have.

Your analogy is in poor taste however.

My only theory behind all of this is:

We as present humans have come only so far in understanding how things work around us regarding physics.

If ADVANCED beings were coming here, however they are doing it, it is common sense to think since they are ADVANCED, they might have some things figured out in a way we currently do not.

Remember, humans scope of understanding only reaches so far

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist
1. Many people have claimed that UFO's can accelerate 90 degrees relative to their position and other maneuvers that contradict the underlying physical principles of current propulsion technology. What many scientists have concluded is that such aerial maneuvering can create gravitational forces so great (hundreds of times that of Earth) and would flatten any living creature like a pancake. Your take on this?
2. To cross the vast distances of the stars, it is known without a doubt that any engine that is used would need to be extremely vast and thus requires a huge star ship. Most UFO reportings are of objects from as small as 3 m across to a one mile. Such machinery is not capable of achieving the high speeds required to cover the astronomical distances in a feasibly short time, and any advanced civilization capable of travelling to the stars would not waste such high amounts of energy or a long time to just spy on humans. Your take on this?
3. An alien civilization capable of travelling to the stars has most likely mastered the physics of optics, and have cloaking technology at their disposal. Not only that, but they have also most likely mastered nanotechnology and the many other scientific areas that we have yet to even begin to slightly understand. In practice, would it not be feasible to have unmanned, cloaked aircraft that are very small but sufficient enough to serve the purpose of spying on humans?

I'll come up with more questions as the thread progresses.

I think you have answered your own questions. Any Aliens visiting this planet would have technology way beyond our wildest imagination.
1. UFO's, imo, would have to be 'unmanned' or the occupants not subject to the same laws of physics that we humans are.
2. They must have discovered the secret of 'wormhole' theory and beyond.
3. Considering the satellite technology we have (where we can see a postage stamp sized object from outer space) then would they need to come anywhere near the Earth's orbit to 'spy' on us? Surely their technology would be that far advanced they could observe us from the comfort of their space ship in another galaxy.

Good thought-provoking post.

Originally posted by dimethylmercury

Originally posted by humphreysjim

Evidence from "something remote viewers have said" must be a new low in standards.

You might as well ask a rapist what women like.

Then feel free to discard it, you undoubtedly already have.

Your analogy is in poor taste however.

Apologies for offense caused by the comparison, poor taste is my middle name.

However, you must realize, if you're trying to persuade or reason with unbelievers, appealing to Remote Viewing, which is every bit as fantastic and unlikely a claim as Aliens flying UFO's, is a seriously flawed approach.

But three physicists got a grant from NASA to work on another approach to the nature of gravity and enertia that would allow suddent stops and starts without g-force. Here are two of their many papers:

www.scientificexploration.org...
www.calphysics.org...

Originally posted by MathematicalPhysicist
1. Many people have claimed that UFO's can accelerate 90 degrees relative to their position and other maneuvers that contradict the underlying physical principles of current propulsion technology. What many scientists have concluded is that such aerial maneuvering can create gravitational forces so great (hundreds of times that of Earth) and would flatten any living creature like a pancake. Your take on this?
2. To cross the vast distances of the stars, it is known without a doubt that any engine that is used would need to be extremely vast and thus requires a huge star ship. Most UFO reportings are of objects from as small as 3 m across to a one mile. Such machinery is not capable of achieving the high speeds required to cover the astronomical distances in a feasibly short time, and any advanced civilization capable of travelling to the stars would not waste such high amounts of energy or a long time to just spy on humans. Your take on this?
3. An alien civilization capable of travelling to the stars has most likely mastered the physics of optics, and have cloaking technology at their disposal. Not only that, but they have also most likely mastered nanotechnology and the many other scientific areas that we have yet to even begin to slightly understand. In practice, would it not be feasible to have unmanned, cloaked aircraft that are very small but sufficient enough to serve the purpose of spying on humans?

I'll come up with more questions as the thread progresses.

While I don't believe UFO's represent Alien craft....I'll none the less take a shot at this.

1. A ship that makes sudden 90 degree turns need not generate it's own gravity, it simply needs to cancel out inertia. Inertia and gravity are two completely different things.....In fact the whole reason behind the search for the 'God Particle' is because it is theorized to be reason behind why objects with mass have inertia in the first place. All one would need to do is somehow control or nullify this 'God Particle' (If it exists that is) to be able to overcome inertia.

2. Since traveling light years in any practical sense would necessitate a technology that warps both time and space, I see no physical reason why a ship would have to be huge....who knows what form this technology would take? Even making the assumption that it would have to be huge, one can simply imagine a series of gates or accelerators that a ship could travel through.....For instance one perhaps in their solar system, and then another hidden within our own solar system, that could provide the power to travel such distances (by whatever means it would have to employ...whether it be warping space and time, or something beyond our comprehension at this level of our understanding)

3. This one I agree with you on, and it's the main reason why I don't believe that UFO's are visitors from another world.......I believe if Aliens are traveling here, then we'd never see them, because they'd almost certainly have the ability to remain concealed.....But to be the 'Devil's Advocate' for the sake of the argument....I'd suggest that perhaps they want to be seen. Perhaps they have an agenda that involves desensitizing us to their presence....or perhaps (as I believe was shown in an old episode of either Twilight Zone, or The Outer Limits) They occasionally show themselves because they want to destabilize us with fear, so that we concur ourselves!

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist

post by MathematicalPhysicist
with such nonsensical explanations such as "antigravity".

I'm sorry but how is anti-gravity nonsensical , it is believed that UFOs work within a gravitational bubble so they can maneuver in the way that has been described without turning their occupants to mush .
Anti-gravity is still theoretical for us but you can bet that there are black projects working to solve the problem .

Here is a diagram as to how it may work .

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


My take on your questions (based purely on speculation, of course):

1. Mass Suppression Field. This technology would achieve Zero Point Mass for the structure (ship) and all internal components (including pilot, if there was one aboard), without permanent loss of mass.

Even though the “ship” would appear to the observer (at any angle) to be solid, it is – for the infinitesimally brief duration of the 90degree turn – rendered in the 3d Universe as 2d “painted” on the surface of the Universe. The original mass becomes an addition to the energy-momentum of the (structureless) structure.

All 3d information regarding the structure and pilot would be stored (and retrieved from) non-local (membrane (multi-dimensional) suspension), non-degenerative entangled memory facilities.

2. MSFs (see above) also allow for quantum superpositioning; duality of the structure’s state. (This utilizes spatial compression (folding)). Repositioning of the structure's mass A into mass B (destination) is achieved by multi-solution equations in relation to the desired destination. Therefore, no travelling with very little energy consumption.

3. Of course! Then again, it’s fun to spook the natives with bright lights in the sky, isn’t it?

I have a theory that may help answer your questions, however I can't prove it, but nonetheless it's a possibility.

Most assume that our space visitors travel large distances, and fly in ships that are in dense physical form.

What if our visitors are actually higher vibrational beings that exist at a higher level of the physical plane. Our current science has affirmed three physical states - solid, liquid and gas. Scienctists are now investigating another form called dark matter. Theosophists claim there are higher levels of the physical state called etheric matter (of which dark matter is at the lowest level of 4 etheric planes of matter). Our bodies are said to be a dense precipitation of the etheric matter. Our visitors are made of etheric matter as is their craft. To be seen by our eye, they choose the lower the vibration of their ship, and that's why the craft can disappear and appear instantly. Their technology allows them to ignore gravity and its effects unlike our present technology.

Theosophy also claims that our solar system is teaming with life, and that our visitors actually live on all planets in our solar system, and because they live on the etheric planes of matter they are not affected by the temperature extremes and other factors that would make it impossible for our dense physical life to survive.

They visit on huge motherships, have scout ships, and also small probes that monitor and analyse our environment for toxic and harmful nuclear radiation found on all planes of matter.

I found this quite eye opening article on this website, that talks more about their purpose, and why they are seen in ever increasing numbers, in more spectacular sightings in recent years.

It might be all bull#, but its indeed a new spin on the phenomena.

reply to post by MathematicalPhysicist


Your questions are mainly of a scientific nature.I'm not a scientist,so propably my answers won't satisfy you.I'll give it a try anyway.

1. Many people have claimed that UFO's can accelerate 90 degrees relative to their position and other maneuvers that contradict the underlying physical principles of current propulsion technology. What many scientists have concluded is that such aerial maneuvering can create gravitational forces so great (hundreds of times that of Earth) and would flatten any living creature like a pancake. Your take on this?

It is a mistake to try to explain the mechanics of an et ship,with the understanding humans have on the laws of physics.There are ways to protect the passanger,if they are manned,with energy fields that have negative energy(antigravity),so when the two forces collide defuse each other and they create a safe enviroment for the passanger.
Or they might have found a way to use this gravitational energy as a way to power the ship.The bigger the gravitational power,the faster the ship can move.
Also we speculate that the physiology of these beings is similar to ours,so they can't endure the gravitational forces of that magnitude.We have no idea what kind of enviroment is suitable for them.

2. To cross the vast distances of the stars, it is known without a doubt that any engine that is used would need to be extremely vast and thus requires a huge star ship. Most UFO reportings are of objects from as small as 3 m across to a one mile. Such machinery is not capable of achieving the high speeds required to cover the astronomical distances in a feasibly short time, and any advanced civilization capable of travelling to the stars would not waste such high amounts of energy or a long time to just spy on humans. Your take on this?

As a previous poster wrote,to our knowledge these ships are scout ships.There is always a mothership hiding somewhere or a camouflaged space station.If your question is how they do it,the answer is propably using wormholes(natural or artificial) or they have technology that allows them to travel in extremely high speeds.
If your question is why they do it,there are different points of view.The ancient alien theory states that they are actually the ones who genetically engineered the primates of earth and created the humans,so they stay around to see how we are doing.There is also the matter of resources.They use earth's metals(mostly gold) and we don't know what else they might need from our planet.Maybe earth is just a refuel station.Maybe they are still experimenting with humans (abductions) or Earth is a destination for vacations.Of course you will hear about interstellar wars and how they try to protect humans from the evil aliens,evil aliens that want to invade earth and turn us all into slaves and other stuff like that.
We just speculate on this matter.

3. An alien civilization capable of travelling to the stars has most likely mastered the physics of optics, and have cloaking technology at their disposal. Not only that, but they have also most likely mastered nanotechnology and the many other scientific areas that we have yet to even begin to slightly understand. In practice, would it not be feasible to have unmanned, cloaked aircraft that are very small but sufficient enough to serve the purpose of spying on humans?

First of all we don't know if the ships are manned or not.My belief is that most,if not all,of them are unmanned drones.The common abduction stories,usually start with the victim being somewhere on earth and then wake up in a ship,on a table.To my knowledge noone ever stated which ship is that.It's not necessary that the abductees are inside one of the scout ships that people usually see.There are few and very questionable in my opinion cases that report beings inside these scout ships.The truth is that most of the people that have witnesses a UFO never mention a passanger of any type.

I hope that i helped and i look forward to the next set of questions.

Even though I am somewhat of a skeptic of alien visitation, (Not alien life, mind you.) I'll take a crack at this.

1. What is to say that the biology of extraterrestrials is similar to ours? Let's say that, for the sake of speculation, rather than a humanoid body structure, they more closely resemble a jellyfish or amoeba. They could also use a magnetic propulsion system, utilizing the Earth's (Or any other planet's with a similar makeup) magnetic field.

2. I would think the UFOs sighted would be scouting crafts, launched from a larger craft in a neighboring solar system or galaxy. Maybe it does actually took them hundreds or thousands of years to get here, but they have mastered cryogenics or have a substantially longer lifespans than humans.

3. I agree with you on this, it is my primary problem with the prospect of alien visitation. A robotic, "lunar lander" sized craft could easily deploy nano-drones from space and come back to retrieve them at a later time.

Good post, thought provoking.

Lots of theories...but we just don't know...