9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

Originally posted by jprophet420 Your attempt at defaming me by calling me a truther is absolutely ignorant to the core.

So, you are not a truther? Oh, my mistake... you must be "just asking questions" (albeit 9 years later & a member here for over 5 1/2 years starting countless threads here) attempting to prove a government cover-up. Sorry JP... you are a truther. Sorry if you don't like the sound of it.

The only thing you posted that was not a personal insult was asking me "can you show me a case where this has happened before", which ENFORCES the fact that it is a legal precedent, as it has never happened before.

That's not what I meant.. nice try though. I was asking you to find a case where evidence was thrown out due to lack if proper protocol that was similar to the way the case was handled regarding the trial of Z.M.

Also, according to the official story, and the link you both posted, the voice recordings were recovered. RTFM.

No, it shows the CVR was recovered. It was damaged beyond the point where any vital information could be obtained. Please tell me what info you could get from this: I suggest you apply more effort into your research. In addition to the link to the FDR analysis, perhaps you can read the Study of Autopilot, Navigation Equipment, and Fuel Consumption Activity Then you can read the Flight Path Study Then you can read the ATC Report If you are still interested in further educating yourself, might I suggest you read the Recorded Radar Study Once you are done reading these rather boring analysis's, I suggest you read a fantastic book called Firefight-Inside the Battle to Save the Pentagon on 9/11 I have a copy here in my library and would be willing to send you it if interested. [edit on 17-8-2010 by Six Sigma]

Originally posted by jprophet420

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade reply to post by Six Sigma

 

You said there's no FDR evidence. There is. It really is as simple as that. Unless you decide that there isn't and insist that you cannot be convinced. In which case it would be impossible to persuade you that the sun rose this morning if you chose to disbelieve it. And I know you think your world-weary style makes you sound witheringly cool; in fact it makes you look juvenile.

I already admitted that there was evidence. Not reading what I post and then personally insulting me is both against the TOS and ignorant.

Actually that's not true. Initially you said there was no evidence. Then when shown that there is, you claimed that you were being sarcastic, but that the evidence is of such a poor standard that it wouldn't usually pass anyway. Effectively you were trying to have it both ways - pretend you were being flippant with your first comment, but that the gist of what you wrote was correct anyway. Your justification for this is nonsense. That the FDR is somehow compromised because they artificially lowered the bar for evidence is untrue, and the comparison with DNA is pointless. In essence you're saying that because some types of evidence are sometimes found to be flawed this one might one day be too. And to continuously make gnomic statements that you know will be interpreted a certain way and then claim you didn't mean them is tiresome.

Originally posted by Six Sigma

Originally posted by jprophet420 Your attempt at defaming me by calling me a truther is absolutely ignorant to the core.

So, you are not a truther? Oh, my mistake... you must be "just asking questions" (albeit 9 years later & a member here for over 5 1/2 years starting countless threads here) attempting to prove a government cover-up. Sorry JP... you are a truther. Sorry if you don't like the sound of it.

The only thing you posted that was not a personal insult was asking me "can you show me a case where this has happened before", which ENFORCES the fact that it is a legal precedent, as it has never happened before.

That's not what I meant.. nice try though. I was asking you to find a case where evidence was thrown out due to lack if proper protocol that was similar to the way the case was handled regarding the trial of Z.M.

Also, according to the official story, and the link you both posted, the voice recordings were recovered. RTFM.

No, it shows the CVR was recovered. It was damaged beyond the point where any vital information could be obtained. Please tell me what info you could get from this:

I suggest you apply more effort into your research. In addition to the link to the FDR analysis, perhaps you can read the Study of Autopilot, Navigation Equipment, and Fuel Consumption Activity Then you can read the Flight Path Study Then you can read the ATC Report If you are still interested in further educating yourself, might I suggest you read the Recorded Radar Study Once you are done reading these rather boring analysis's, I suggest you read a fantastic book called Firefight-Inside the Battle to Save the Pentagon on 9/11 I have a copy here in my library and would be willing to send you it if interested. [edit on 17-8-2010 by Six Sigma]

1. The only one of those threads that was about government conspiracy was the Pearl harbor thread. If you feel anything is incorrect in the thread debunk it. You just want a reason to use a defamatory term towards me. 2. I know its not what you meant but its what I meant. A black box without a serial number is piss poor forensics. 3. You suggested me to do more research when the government is the one that claimed the CVR was recovered, not me. I simply followed the links you JREFr's posted. I guess you mean I should do more biased research? And then you have the heuvos to suggest I put more effort into it. 4. the whole reason I posted "no evidence" in the first place was to illustrate a strange phenomenon. If the Black box is valid and you are not an expert your opinion means jack squat. There are experts on BOTH sides of the fence as far as the black box are concerned (as with every single aspect of 911), so a new investigation is needed. Excuse me for baiting someone with character assassination. Which is why I am here, to get people interested in a new investigation. And yes we did character assassinate the "truthers" that were experts in the field in response to my posts as well as prior to my posts in this very thread. And that's what I want. Peoples legendary bias to show

Conversations with Pentagon witnesses - Full conversations here - Full links: Albert Hemphill: s1.zetaboards.com... Steve Storti: s1.zetaboards.com... Lee Evey: s1.zetaboards.com... Keith Wheelhouse: s1.zetaboards.com... Alan Wallace: s1.zetaboards.com... Noel Sepulveda: s1.zetaboards.com... Major Lincoln Lieber: s1.zetaboards.com... Rev. Henry Ticknor: s1.zetaboards.com... Michael Defina: s1.zetaboards.com... Penny Elgas: s1.zetaboards.com... Father Stephen McGraw: s1.zetaboards.com... Lloyd England: s1.zetaboards.com... Donald Bouchoux: s1.zetaboards.com... Robert Leonard: s1.zetaboards.com... Tom Trapasso: s1.zetaboards.com... Dave Winslow: s1.zetaboards.com... Stuart Artman: s1.zetaboards.com... Daryl Donley: s1.zetaboards.com... Vin Narayanan: s1.zetaboards.com... .

To me its just a lot of misunderstanding I mean there is much more to the whole deal than it being 'a govt. coverup' its just great the people who are aggressively skeptical just lump everyone together either you believe it was a cover-up or you believe the 'official story' endorsed by the establishment? Look if there was even an effort on some level of distorting what really occurred then that alone should be a red flag. But the thing is that the people behind it and the agenda behind it is much deeper than any hollywood fantasy people tend to assign the so-called truthers to. I am just fine with it all being the way it is, people are waking up to more than just the lies and deception we have been exposed to, throughout our societies and past we are healing and moving on from the past we are going to see things collectively in a new light as all of this comes to its 'cresendo'

reply to post by orazio Nothing is coming to a "crescendo". Please spell out what you are thinking. This is not the place to try and be coy and mysterious.

No amount of evidence will ever take away the fact that the FBI confiscated and refuses to release video showing the incident. There is something they don't want us to see.

Originally posted by Bearzooka No amount of evidence will ever take away the fact that the FBI confiscated and refuses to release video showing the incident. There is something they don't want us to see.

What video exactly are you saying the FBI confiscated and are refusing to release ? If you really want final confirmation that AA 77 crashed into the Pentagon have a look at the new paper by Warren Stutt and Frank Legge on the " Flight AA 77 on 9/11 : Real FDR analysis : Frank Legge / Warren Stutt " thread.

1. Why doesn't the DoD release the footage from the other security cameras? Am I to believe the pentagon only has 1 security camera? My local 7-Eleven has more security cameras than that! 2. Why didn't American Airlines release the actual passenger manifests of Flight 77? I'm talking about a primary document from the source, not a news report. If the alleged hijackers had purchased a ticket and checked in, their names should be on that list. 3. How did the data from the cockpit voice recorder get destroyed? Granted, the airplane had a high-speed crash, but that is exactly what the black boxes were designed for.

Wow, Kerosene sure is magic. It melts steel,but not the green primer coating the steel.

reply to post by Carnegie

Why doesn't the DoD release the footage from the other security cameras?

FBI headed the investigation. Any footage that had any hint of the airplane recorded on it was released already. Footage without airplane, what's the point?

Am I to believe the pentagon only has 1 security camera? My local 7-Eleven has more security cameras than that!

See above. Cameras aimed in many directions. Not all cameras may have recordings...and, the Pentagon isn't exactly a "high security" building, on the exterior. Interior, more sensitive areas. Layers of security to get through....INSIDE. 7-11 is also more of a target for robberies and other petty crimes, wouldn't you think???

Why didn't American Airlines release the actual passenger manifests of Flight 77?

Done long ago. Lists compiled, public.

If the alleged hijackers had purchased a ticket and checked in, their names should be on that list.

Yes, they are. Even know the seat assignments. Where are you getting your info?? This is rather easy to find online.....

How did the data from the cockpit voice recorder get destroyed? Granted, the airplane had a high-speed crash, but that is exactly what the black boxes were designed for.

They are NOT "indestructible". You should remember, too, that there are few precedents of such high-speed crashes. The units have certain parameters designed to withstand, so many hours in such and such a hot fire, so many Gs on impact, etc. Have you ever actually seen one?? Article says this one came from Egypt AIr 990: electronics.howstuffworks.com... American 77 CVR did not fare so well....broken open, and in extreme fire for sustained period of time: www.sptimes.com... There are very few examples to be found online....other sources can provide a lot more info. Looks like with AAL 77 the CVR casing breached, and THEN the fire did the damage. Bad combination of both. Not sure what we missed, though....the cockpit take-over occurred between 08:50 EDT (last normal ATC transmission) and 08:56 EDT, when ATC queried the flight because at about 08:54 the hijackers had control, based on the FDR....the heading began to change, off course. That is why the Center called them at 08:56...and got NO ANSWER. SInce impact was over 30 minutes later, and the CVR only records about 30 minutes, all would have heard is the hijackers voices, and any other sounds from the cabin that were picked up, and whichever frequencies the radios remained tuned to.......

reply to post by AndrewH

Kerosene... *snip*... melts steel,but not the green primer coating the steel.

Inane comment. Kerosene fires do not melt steel. In any accident there will always be pieces that escape the direct flames, and still have the zinc chromate paint showing...or other paint colors, as appropriate.

reply to post by weedwhacker Weed, do you have a link to the flight manifests. I heard something about them not having any Arabic names on them. Also, another thing I don't understand is all the witnesses on the ground (Pentagon police officers, an air traffic controller that was in the heliport tower, and eyewitnesses at the citco gas station and Arlington cemetary) reported that the plane's flight path approached the pentagon from the north side of CITCO gas station. While the official report says it approached from the south side, in a straight line where it hit all those light posts. The plane couldn't have hit all those light posts from where the eyewitnesses saw the plane approaching.

"Why doesn't the DoD release the footage from the other security cameras?" Most of the security cameras which would have witnessed anything related to the impacts were probably disabled prior to the incident...for obvious reasons.

reply to post by SphinxMontreal Who turned them off? I need to add to my ever-growing list of people who are in on it.

reply to post by Carnegie

Weed, do you have a link to the flight manifests. I heard something about them not having any Arabic names on them.

A very easy search accomplished this (a LOT of information on that link): www.911myths.com... Of course, a whole slew of crap will pop up too....like, just a random dip into the cesspool of so-called "9/11 truth" sites, and I spotted yet another FALSE "fact" RE: United 93....a statement asserting that it was "allowed to fly around for one hour and 49 minutes" since the first attack in NYC. Totally bogus, and a lie. TYPICAL, though, of the garbage being spewed from those people. Example>> UAL 93 left Newark, actually took off, after a long taxi delay on the ground, at about 08:43 EDT. Remember when American 11 hit the first Tower? And United 175, the second Tower?? By the time UAL 175 hit (09:03), and the realization of what was happening dawned....AND the U.S. airspace shutdown at 09:30, UAL 93 was well to the west, at cruise altitude....and was just about then being taken over. It was DOWN by 10:06. A mere 30 - 35 minutes.....NOT the bogus "1 hour 49 minutes"!!! Just ONE example of the bunch of BS, is the normal routine for those "9/11 truth" sites. (See? On UAL 93, the hijackers waited much longer to make their move, than on the other three flights. Which goes along with my explanation of how they gained entry...they HAD to wait until the Flight Attendants opened the door, for some reason...usually, food and beverages for the crew).

Also, another thing I don't understand is all the witnesses on the ground (Pentagon police officers, an air traffic controller that was in the heliport tower, and eyewitnesses at the citco gas station and Arlington cemetary) reported that the plane's flight path approached the pentagon from the north side of CITCO gas station.

Where did you get "all" witnesses?? Just a handful, and their testimony has been skewed by those jokers at "Citizens Investigation". They are not truthful, and distorted the interviews. Here is a video:

While the official report says it approached from the south side, in a straight line where it hit all those light posts. The plane couldn't have hit all those light posts from where the eyewitnesses saw the plane approaching.

Watch the video, above......

Pardon me if this has been addressed elsewhere but what happened to all the human remains? Is it the general consensus that all the bodies were burned up? Thanks

Originally posted by GrnEydGuy Pardon me if this has been addressed elsewhere but what happened to all the human remains? Is it the general consensus that all the bodies were burned up? Thanks

If you scroll down to the bottom of this you will find pictures of bodies and body parts at the Pentagon :- 911research.wtc7.net... According to the Coroner at Shanksville body parts amounting to 270 kg were recovered which he estimated represented about 8 % of the total body weight of those on board UA 93. Very many body parts were of course recovered at the WTC and continued to be found for years after the event. I believe more may have turned up fairly recently amongst debris at a landfill.

hi there My father has worked for rolls royce for nearly 30 years. he knows pretty much everything about the rolls royce engine there is to know and has constructed every part needed for one. On the day of the 9/11 attacks i remember watching the footage live with my father, when it was said that a plane had hit the pentagon his first comment was "damm rolls royce shares will take a massive hit", and they did lol they went from £4.50+ to under £1. he was asked by the top brass to attend a meeting regarding the attacks. after they reviewed the footage and stories regarding the wreckage he is 100% confident that no plane which used a rolly royce engine struck the pentagon. He says that for a rolls engine to completley disintergrate on impact is 99% impossible. In all crashes recorded to date the engine is usually the largest component to survive ( sometimes the cockpit can still be in tact). He was involved with testing the force needed to crush and engine so it would be unreconiseable or split into so many individual parts. bottom line a plane hitting the side of pure solid enforced concrete at nearly any thinkable speed would still leave the engines in tact. i dont have all the figures but to this day he says if there were not any in tact engines found then it was not a plane and i know who i believe father or not its the 30 years experience that does it for me. Hope this helps I hope one day the truth will come out but the sad thing is it wont change what happened i just hope we can learn from our mistakes! Helgas

After browsing through some of the comments, I think that some people are still split. The absolute original evidence that I ever saw was in no way shape or form that of an airplane... let alone a 757 hitting the pentagon. Are we truly to believe that after all this time, the evidence that's "available" for us to review hasn't been changed? After all, these photographs were taken at the pentagon... who released them? How do we know whether they've been edited or not? We all have heard the theory that there were no planes that hit any of the buildings, but then that leaves us to question what happened to say Flight 77? What about the reports of smelling gun gun smoke, or the air traffic controllers saying it "Flew like a jet fighter," or "Behaved/Sounded like a missile." If only it were possible to go back in time, I think we'd all want a front row seat to see what really happened.