9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

Thomas, what are your cridentials to being an expert in identifying aircraft? Or are you simply saying that you don't know how to identify any aircraft what so ever in any type of crash and therefore claiming it can't be a 757 simply because you are not qualified? You are claiming it's not a 757 for the most part aside form this claim of not recognizing one. Therefore the burden of proof is on you to identify what it is. The experts have identified it as flight 77 and all the parts match. Even cleanup workers reported the number on the tail piece. It's a faulty argument you are making. Because you require large parts to be intact, which is not possible. So you hae a self fullfilling argument which is not realistic. It's a pretty cheap and petty tactic. And it also goes into the CT category of breaking down the argument into small pieces rather than look at the thing as a whole. So you can focus on your inability to identify plane parts while ignoring all other evidence. Clearly you have no interest in anything other than there being something other than what most people believe. And having no evidence what so ever is not of concern to you as it is to others. Hence again no reputabl media outlets making the same claims. Ever wonder why no reputable reporters are saying "hey, those couldn't be 757 plane parts"? There are a choice of cop outs. 1) They like everyone else in the country is just too dumb, unlike you. Or 2) The government controlls them.

Originally posted by mcfunthomas do you want to tell me that all the photos of 757 wheel assembly that can be found on the Net are not relevant? Cant we turst them when it is obvious that what was found in the pentagon site doesn't match the one from 757 ???

Wheel rim from the Pentagon Wheel rims from 757s They look the same to me. How about the strut? They look the same to me.

Originally posted by mcfunthomas

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by mcfunthomas 1. the Global Hawk was just a possibility, one of, you know.

What kind of engine is in a global hawk and where is it made? What did the engineer from the plant that makes the engines that powers the Global Hawk say when shown a picture of the pentagon engine debris? I bet you don't know the answer to those questions.

But I know that it can't be from 757 either.

Prove it.

This no 757 hit the pentgon is just crazy. Of course it did, the problem is the fact that flight 77 was allowed to hit the pentagon. You dont fly a 757 into the Pentagon, after the towers were struck. It just doesnt happen. This business of stating that flight 77 didnt hit the Pentagon is not helping the truth movement and sounds like disinformation. By the way D.C. sits on the 77th Meridian, not saying I do, but someone believed in numerology, flight 11 hits the towers, flight 175, flight 93, all are mystical numbers. This is a western belief not Arab.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan This no 757 hit the pentgon is just crazy. Of course it did, the problem is the fact that flight 77 was allowed to hit the pentagon. You dont fly a 757 into the Pentagon, after the towers were struck. It just doesnt happen. This business of stating that flight 77 didnt hit the Pentagon is not helping the truth movement and sounds like disinformation.

Wow, a very rational evaluation. The only problem is that there may not have been enough time to get the fighters there to bring it down. Plus at the time they had no way of kniwing where it was headed either. Although I am sure many people must have guessed the white house. Still, if there wasn't enough time to get a jet there to shoot it down.... So it could go either way. It could be a situation of letting it happen. The only problem is lack of proof. And in order to prove it, we would need a smoking gun, or a whistelblower. I feel the same way as you do. However until someone comes out, it's only our opinions. Although personally I don't think there was government involvement even to that extent. i think it was more so a case of knowing it was coming and ignoring the intel. Then there won't be a smoking gun or whistle blower, they can just claim "we never saw it coming". Call off a few investigations and they can play it as chance. But that's just my opinion and not evidence of anything usable.

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by mcfunthomas do you want to tell me that all the photos of 757 wheel assembly that can be found on the Net are not relevant? Cant we turst them when it is obvious that what was found in the pentagon site doesn't match the one from 757 ???

Wheel rim from the Pentagon

Wheel rims from 757s

They look the same to me. How about the strut?

They look the same to me.

hmm... FIRST : the struts look SIMILAR to me. IT'S NOT ENOUGH, sorry chap. when I was a little boy [pretty long time ago] I was keen on such games like FIND THE DIFFERENES BETWEEN THE TWO PICTURES. When I look at the provided photos of the struts I can easily find the differences between them. To make it easier to understand I just want to mention for example car doors...or car's side mirrors. They can be a bit similar but if sb askes you what car does a door come from, only a comlete naive person may say that is comes form many makes. The same applies to the shape of landing gear. If you still can't see the important differences I might devote some time to present you the differences in detail. Just ask me. As to the rims I have to find out if they are very tipical of 757-200 bacause I think I've read somewhere that NOT. If I find it I will paste the link. If not maybe sb will help me with it [well...I must go back to my homework: my students' test are waiting to be checked n valuated]

Originally posted by HowardRoark Prove it.

ok, if you can't yourself find the info about it , I'll try, as I saw it somewhere while browsing the net. hmm I'll have to do it again...bloody luck [Mod Edit: Cleaned up nested quotes - Jak] [edit on 21/10/06 by JAK]

I'm sure thatthe struts look different. One is pristine and undamaged, the other was violently ripped out of a plane in an impact.

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by mcfunthomas do you want to tell me that all the photos of 757 wheel assembly that can be found on the Net are not relevant? Cant we turst them when it is obvious that what was found in the pentagon site doesn't match the one from 757 ???

Wheel rim from the Pentagon

Wheel rims from 757s

They look the same to me. How about the strut?

They look the same to me.

The only problem with the pics from the Pentagon is that thier is no source for them. No photographers name, date or time taken.

Are you saying that they are faked?

Originally posted by HowardRoark Are you saying that they are faked?

No, i did not say they were faked i said there is no source. So that means they do not make very good evidence. Also as for the pic of the wheel, the 757 is not the only plane that uses that type of wheel. There was no proper investigation done at the crash sites. 911research.wtc7.net...

The Pentagon BPS is the only government investigation of the crash of Flight 77 that admits to existing, but it was defined as and limited to an investigation of the performance of the building. There was no investigation into the crash by the National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB). The Probable Cause document for Flight 77 on the NTSB's website reads: The terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The Safety Board provided requested technical assistance to the FBI, and any material generated by the NTSB is under the control of the FBI. The Safety Board does not plan to issue a report or open a public docket.

www.9-11commission.gov...

By law, the FBI becomes the lead investigative agency when airline crashes are the result of a criminal act, and the NTSB provides support when requested. However, the families were advised by FBI officials that the FBI is investigating only the terrorists. According to Mary Schiavo, former Inspector General of the Department of Transportation, "In every single aviation disaster, whether there was criminal activity or not, in every single one in the course of aviation history it has been followed -- not only where necessary a national criminal investigation -- but also a National Transportation Safety [Board] investigation into what went wrong in the aviation system so that it never happens again." [38] NTSB experts would examine flight and data recorders, and ATC radar tracking data, as well as evaluate the transcripts of air controller-pilot conversations and study air traffic control service on September 11th. They would have also collected airframe wreckage at the scenes and interviewed eye witnesses. Finally, the NTSB would have assessed survival factors, based on documentation of impact forces, emergency planning and crash-fire-rescue efforts, [39] all of which would have contributed to a better understanding of what happened that morning.

[edit on 20-10-2006 by ULTIMA1] [edit on 20-10-2006 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1 Also as for the pic of the wheel, the 757 is not the only plane that uses that type of wheel.

How things have changed. I remember back at the begining of this thread when it was claimed that those were "Global Hawk" wheels. At least you are admitting that the wheels are consistent with a 757.

Originally posted by HowardRoark At least you are admitting that the wheels are consistent with a 757.

Don't you mean wheel howward? Where are the other 9? That's what makes me question the legitimacy of the photo's. Maybe there are pics of the others, but where? Why would they not be released? It would be easy to plant one wheel, and one strut, and conveniently one rotor hub...Where are the rest of them?? You sound shocked at the suggestion they may be faked? Well if the whole damn attack was faked then it wouldn't be a stretch to say those pics were too. Found this interesting...

"After researching 9/11, I finally felt obligated to come forward, especially about a military photo taken of a piece of wreckage off Flight 77. After blowing up the photo and matching rivets to those of the 757 that supposedly crashed into the Pentagon, I found there wasn’t a match. This piece of wreckage was from a different plane...Hanson of Columbus, Ohio, a longtime Republican and former district campaign manager for Richard Nixon

Source I always thought that pic (can't find it now) Of the SS 'picking up' wreckage, was actually SS men planting wreckage. They seemed in an awful hurry to pick stuff up... We also know other photo's from the pentagon were tampered with, lot's of threads on ATS about that. [edit on 20/10/2006 by ANOK]

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by ULTIMA1 Also as for the pic of the wheel, the 757 is not the only plane that uses that type of wheel.

How things have changed. I remember back at the begining of this thread when it was claimed that those were "Global Hawk" wheels. At least you are admitting that the wheels are consistent with a 757.

The wheel might be from a 757 or about half a dozen other planes. You have not proven they are from a 757 or flight 77. I still have not seen an official incident report from a regulated agency with the details of the crash site.

[Completely irrelevant, Off-Topic, and ALL CAPS content removed] ...but the deniers kept denying that they were in denial. [edit on 21-10-2006 by Cade] Note: The topic of discussion is: » 9/11 Conspiracies » 9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon » Discussion regarding the supposed "death" of habeas corpus is completely Off-Topic and should be conducted in the appropriate forum/thread, not here. Thank you. [edit on 10/21/2006 by 12m8keall2c]

ANOK, ULTIMA1... THX FOR HELP. It's good to have sb else when you ' ve got little time to spend on this. so long lads

Originally posted by HowardRoark I'm sure thatthe struts look different. One is pristine and undamaged, the other was violently ripped out of a plane in an impact.

even if sth is damaged, it cant have so different features. If sth is round, after being ripped out cant turn into sth square, for example. Agree with me? Yet, the pics don't present horrible changes to those struts to be perceived the same shape before being damaged.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by HowardRoark At least you are admitting that the wheels are consistent with a 757.

Don't you mean wheel howward? Where are the other 9? That's what makes me question the legitimacy of the photo's. Maybe there are pics of the others, but where? Why would they not be released?

Seriously, this gets silly sometimes. How many pieces/parts of a 757 are there? 1000+? People that believe there was no flight 77 will not be satisfied until all 1000+ pictures of each part are provided. Then there will be question of how reliable the source is of the photos. So now, we need to show pictures of all 9 wheels? Ok, fine, say we get the pictures of all 9 wheels...then what? Seriously, if we could provide pictures of all 9 wheels, would that make you satisfied? I will answer that....no. It won't because there will be something else missing. The problem is...it is impossible to provide ALL the information needed to convince you. Based on everything I have read just in the last few weeks, the amount of information it would take to even steer some people back towards the "flight 77 hit the pentagon" is completely unattainable. Here is what you would require at the very least: - At least two non-government sources standing outside that day with a video camera filming the airplane (zoomed in of course). They would also have to not be related to, or know anyone that works for the government in any way. (this is highly unlikely) - The above would require non government people making sure from the minute the video footage was taken to the time it was released that no way it could have been tampered with. (again highly unlikely) - At least two more non-government sources standing with a camera taking pictures of each part from the plane picked up from the crash. (this is just not going to happen. They aren't going to let just let any average Joe walk in there taking pics) - Pictures of each body found at scene and released to the public. (THIS is not going to happen and I would hope you could understand why.) - DNA evidence matching each person found. Of course we would need someone not associated with the government taking the DNA samples and make sure nothing contaminated the chain of evidence. That would eliminate the police, fire department, FBI, CIA, and no company that has any past ties to the government, otherwise they cannot be trusted either. (again not likely. Who is going to be allowed in there not associated with the government to take the sample?) Admit that no matter what is provided, it won't be enough.

^It would be nice if they actually did an investigation, an independent investigation with access to all the necessary evidence, but too late for that huh? I'm happy you are so easily convinced. Sry but it takes a lot more to convince me, especially when it's the government involved, who have created plans in the past to do very similar things, and have all the motive to did it. All you've done with your above post is convince me that you assume you know what I, or others, think. Sry to bust ya bubble but ya don't. And that my friend creates bias. I don't think it's too much to ask, when you consider all the other official story holes, to see parts of a 757 that should have survived the impact. Showing just one wheel, one rotor hub, and one strut, when there should be more, just helps fuel the theory that the pics could be fake or the parts planted, like the piece of fuselage which I am pretty convinced was planted. See story in my post about the rivets not matching. So telling me and others here what you assume I think doesn't help your argument one bit, just makes you look desperate to discredit the poster. Pls learn to take us all as individuals with our own thoughts and ideas, we're not the ones following a government written script. [edit on 21/10/2006 by ANOK]

Yo, HowardRoark. As we've focused a bit on debris, I'd like you comment on the link below and its sublinks. 77debris.batcave.net... just a few words, could you, please?