9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

A little research on FDRs and it seems that the data in the last few seconds before impact can be somewhat unreliable if the data frame is disrupted. Furthermore, the FDR is continuously recording over old data, so that they have to be careful to get the exact end of the data stream. I suspect that the end of the FDR data does not match up exactly with the impact. If the altitude is +- 75 feet, what is the error in the time? BTW from the topo it looks as though the ground near the overpass was around 60 feet ASL, from pictures of the overpass, the road was fairly elevated, I'd guess 75 feet or so.

Originally posted by stillprepping catherder,

catherder: According to the NTSB: Data from the flight recorder showed that; the plane was travelling at 400 knots (780 ft/s) (512.9 mph) at a magnetic bearing of 70 degrees when it struck the Pentagon. It had approximately 36,200lb of fuel (5,300 gal) and weighed approximately 181,520lb

The bold is important. according to the ntsb flight data recorder, the elevation of the aircraft ONE SECOND before impact was 480 ft above sea level. the light poles the aircraft allegedly hit would have had to be be over 400 ft tall to have been impacted by the aircraft, which is impossible. this analysis (summarized below) was conducted by Pilots for 911 Truth, which is working together with Scholars for Truth and Veterans For Truth and currently has at least 10 pilots as part of its organization. Together, they have a vast amount of flight experience with multiple, major airlines, and they totally concur with the 911 panels suspicion of widespread decpetion by the pentagon..

Using an online topgraphic mapping program, we can see that the region of VA where the Pentagon sits is 40ft above sea level. So, this means that at one second prior to impact, Flight 77 was 440ft higher than the Pentagon, travelling at a speed of 780fps. When descending, you move fast. It's just like driving your car downhill; your Honda might go zero to sixty in six seconds on a normal run, but punch the accelerator going downhill you'll hit sixty in four seconds, five max. It's the same concept here, only with a frightfully larger amount of speed, mass, and gravity. So, Flight 77 is doing 780fps on a steady descent towards the Pentagon. That's 390 feet every half-second. Ample time. Do some math, Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by snoopy So you want me to reseach someone elses claims?

Unfortuneatly you missed my point and you are twisting what I said. I'm not supporting anybodies theory, just want to hear more than opinions on whether it's right or wrong. If you claim he's wrong, I have no idea myself, then let's see your research to dispute it. So no, you would not be researching someones elses claim, you would be researching your own.

I am not claiming anyone is wrong. They are making claims about the altitude but not providing all the information on how they got it. I am asking how they got it. I cannot read their minds. And no matter how much research I were to do, it doesn't mean it's the same figures they used for their calculations. Thus I would have to be doing their research. I haven't made any claims, only they have.

John I don't know if you have read any of the threads, but there seems to be some new evidence from the flight recorder of 77 that seems supicious in that it shows the plane being way too high to have hit the Pentagon. Could you explain a little bit to us laymen about how calibrating the planes altimeter works? I don't even know i that is the proper terminology or not. But I get the impression that there is some sort of calibration done by the pilots to make sure their altitude readings are correct. Is there any way you might be able to help me understand how this works (assuming it's not some overly long explination that would take up too much of your time).

Originally posted by Astygia It's the same concept here, only with a frightfully larger amount of speed, mass, and gravity.

A larger amount of gravity? Is the Pentagon on a different planet? Some of us think so, but only metaphorically.

Originally posted by snoopy Could you explain a little bit to us laymen about how calibrating the planes altimeter works? I don't even know i that is the proper terminology or not. But I get the impression that there is some sort of calibration done by the pilots to make sure their altitude readings are correct. Is there any way you might be able to help me understand how this works (assuming it's not some overly long explination that would take up too much of your time).

There's a dial on the altimeter. You turn it to change the pressure that's set for the altimeter. For example, when the ATC talks to the pilot, they give them a barometric pressure setting (let's say 29.97), the pilot takes that reading, and turns the knob on the altimeter until the reading that's inset on the altimeter reads 29.97. At that point the altimeter would read the correct altitude for that setting.

Originally posted by rich23

Originally posted by Astygia It's the same concept here, only with a frightfully larger amount of speed, mass, and gravity.

A larger amount of gravity? Is the Pentagon on a different planet? Some of us think so, but only metaphorically.

Ahahaah, bad wording on my part, nice catch though. What I mean is basically the plane is coming down faster than the honda in my crude comparison.

OMG A PLANE HIT THE TRADE CENTER?? SOMEONE CALL 911!! OMG!!

Originally posted by BigMoser So, the hijackers weren't all that great in flying. Do you think perhaps that they had persuaded the pilot, who I understand had a real great resume on piloting I think I read somewhere on these forums, persuaded the pilot to do the work for them? Maybe he got caught in a bind, "I'm gonna die anyways, let's hope that they shoot us down and kill these bastards before I hit!".... I don't know, just a thought.

YOU havent convinced me. Your telling me that those 2 or 3 parts that were found werent totally turned to dust, BUT the rest of the plane was???? Also the plane crashed threw the only bomb proof part of the building. SLAMMED THREW and made a perfect hole on the other side? But no wing damage? What the wings arent powerfull enough? NO WAY, it had to be a cruise missle. There were more than that one video too, there were like six. But what are they doin with those videos? Y are they hidden????? THERE is a whole lot more for u to prove than just this. Also the Radar video that show that so call 757 pull Gz like a FIGHTER. Also all those other circled parts of the plane are not from the plane! howd u figure they are? thats plain crazy. Let me tell you, if that engine hit that generator it wouldve come off and be found broken in many pieaces. You also miss the point of other eye witnesses seeing other 2 planes in the vicinty also people see different things. When was there ever bodies recovered and howd u figure that part was from a 757 engine???? thats plain and simple its not and that statement is bold and crazy. AND what that rim doesnt fit any other plane???? they couldt have replaced the wheel on something else or even just placed it there? And how come that pieace of plane is not charred burnt or nothing, just perfectly ripped [edit on 7-9-2006 by GhosTBR55]

When the plane hit the building's re-inforced side, the wings, on impact, disintegrated with the explosion, which is fairly reasonable. The fueselage that remained (mainly the front half) could have easily vectored through and out the otherside... dunno if there was any debris found after the punch hole. It would be EXTREMELY odd if there wasn't. Actually there were considerably a lot of classified tapes that caught any whiff of the Pentagon that day.

Originally posted by Masisoar When the plane hit the building's re-inforced side, the wings, on impact, disintegrated with the explosion, which is fairly reasonable. The fueselage that remained (mainly the front half) could have easily vectored through and out the otherside... dunno if there was any debris found after the punch hole. It would be EXTREMELY odd if there wasn't. Actually there were considerably a lot of classified tapes that caught any whiff of the Pentagon that day.

theres no way the planes wings would disintegrate before it went inside the building. it would AT THE LEAST make a Scratch but in reality wouldve made a wing whole just like the TWIN TOWERS. Show me where u saw a perfect circular whole in the Twin towers, if it was possible it wouldve been easier to do it to the twin towers figuring the wings made damage on the building on both sides i think. [edit on 7-9-2006 by GhosTBR55]

Ghost, I'm NOT trying to convince you because I can't even tell what hit the Pentagon. I would expect bigger wing impact damage and explosive damage on the building and some possible engine damage not in the impact hole but in the own individual damage paths. There are questions that I still ask and it causes so much confusion for me I can not make up my mind but I still make rationalized deductions off what there is to show and not get too conspiracy or too "pro-official". More like "pro-realistic", as I do with the World Trade Center issues I look into.

Originally posted by GhosTBR55 theres no way the planes wings would disintegrate before it went inside the building. it would AT THE LEAST make a Scratch but in reality wouldve made a wing whole just like the TWIN TOWERS. Show me where u saw a perfect circular whole in the Twin towers, if it was possible it wouldve been easier to do it to the twin towers figuring the wings made damage on the building on both sides i think. [edit on 7-9-2006 by GhosTBR55]

So kevlar reinforced concrete, designed to withstand a bomb going off RIGHT NEXT TO IT is the same as steel. Riiiight. You're not going to see the same reaction at the Pentagon, because you're comparing apples and oranges. The walls at the Pentagon did EXACTLY WHAT THEY WERE DESIGNED TO DO. And that wheel rim is off a 757. It's a perfect match. If you looked through this thread, and many other 9/11 Pentagon threads you would see pictures that match the rim perfectly.

Originally posted by RubinLando OMG A PLANE HIT THE TRADE CENTER?? SOMEONE CALL 911!! OMG!!

This is 911, What is the nature of your emergency sir? I saw your distress signal. [edit on 8-9-2006 by In nothing we trust]

I'm really sorry if i offend anyone but honestly, think about it, if a boeing 757 airplane hit the pentagon at the spot where they "said" it hit, in that little tiny whole, in order for that to happen, the plane would have had to of been about 2 feet above the groud, and magically it didnt leave any marks on the lawn? and the whole wall was still intact with the rest of the building and was completely fine until 45 minutes after it had been burning then it caved in? No, im sorry, if a plane crashed into the building going 500 sum miles an hour that wall would have been devistated. It wouldnt have been just some burning flames and smoke, you would be able to see where it hit. And also, if it was an airplane, which it totally could have been, why wont they release the 3 videos that they have?????? Honestly, wouldnt that just stop all the arguments once and for all? If they release one video, just one, and it shows an airplane, i will rest my case, but until then i wont, because that is just sooooo freaking stupid. We live here we have the right to know, and im not going to believe words that come out of someones mouth or pictures of little shattered particles of what "looks" like something. Also, on one of the pictures where the wall is caved in, the back wall is completly fine. If the airplane managed to soar through 3 other layers of concrete wall to make a perfectly round hole then thats a miracle. because there were no other perfectly shapped holes in the wall accept that one. Kinda looks like what a missile does doesnt it? Wow what a shocker. There finally i said it, this has been pissing me off for to long and i had to say it. And yeah if it wasnt the plane that hit the pentagon where the hell did the plane go? I have no clue. Im just pissed because a lot of things are to sketchy for me and i dont buy it. I just wanna know the truth, and if there is nothing to be hiding about the pentagon, show us the friggin tapes!!!!!

Flight 77 Path Reconstruction See how they shrink the plane in the animation when they move into the security camera point of view: img180.imageshack.us... misleading buttheads..

It's called "perspective". If they DIDN'T then you'd be going on about how they were misleading us by keeping the plane too big when they get to the security camera footage.

Sure lol, thats why those trees at the left suddenly appear much farther away and the plane shrank smaller too..

And what do you expect to happen through a FISH EYE LENS?