9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

How can the 757 that was accused of hitting the Pentagon just have its tail section and wings sucked into the fuselage as it was "entering" the building"? That's almost impossible! Why no extensive damage from the wings or the tail section? Why no evidence of the tail section/wings? How did the nose section appear to penetrate so far into the Pentagon when the engines did not and were made of more robust materials? ------------------------------ Official Story aside, how do you explain it objectively? You have a Boeing 757 rail the side of the building, by all accounts of physics, the fuselage should of penetrated the Pentagon, the wings should of hit the walls dead on, as with the tail, causing them to shear off and be damaged substantially and cause damage to the building itself. Not to mention the engines would make their on mark on the building. Yet we're left with a 14-18 ft hole from an object that penetrated 3 rings of the Pentagon, which was accused to of been the nose of the aircraft, which is no more than aluminum alloys and of less robust material, engines do no substaintial damage? EDIT: For any relevant point to be made, I state that I feel it may of possibly been a Boeing 757 that hit the Pentagon FOR THE SOLE reason of less evidence to have to worry about and to make it more believeable for what hit the Pentagon. I.E. It's more conventional to just use the aircraft but I still find questions with what happened odd. [edit on 8/23/2006 by Masisoar]

O.K. So, We have a Government owned && operated Building. The area that was shut down && closed-off for rebuilding was the same area hit by the "757 Boeing Jumbo Jet"; if that's what it really was. We have 3 tapes of complete, total, && utter footage that would absolutely, positively, 100% show that a 757 Boeing Jumbo Jet did infact hit the Pentagon, or so, that's what the Government says it shows. Not a Cruise Missile. Not a Commuter Jet. A 757... If a Boeing did not crash into the Pentagon, who's to say the parts of the 757 Boeing found weren't just planted in it? Who's to say the Government DID know months in advance that something would slam into one of the Pentagons sides? No one can really say anything without seeing those 3 tapes....Hell, even one of them is conclusive enough. Even if a 757 Boeing Jumbo Jet did slam into the Pentagon; that still doesn't mean that some "Terrorists" did it. This wouldn't be some amateur that we are talking about here...some guy that would leave His fingerprints all over the place....this is The United States Government! Do You not think they'd know EXACTLY what they were doing when they were to set these things up!? The technology, the "remote-controlled planes", that were used to go flying into those Buildings would not be so hard to make when saying that it was U.S. Government who had made it. What do You think the People at Area 51 do with their time??? If they really were planes....that, I don't know. They could've been full of explosives...&& People. I'm guessing that one of the two, if not both, planes that flew into the WTC Buildings had the entire crew && passengers from all four planes that went down that day. The Pentagon is a U.S. Government-run building. If the Government used a missile, a Commuter Jet, or some other sort of small propelled object to crash into the pentagon-do you really think they'd have troubling getting the planted 757 plane parts inside the building? If they weren't already put inside the missile. Not to mention the fact that that whole part of the Pentagon was shut down; so getting the pieces in there would've made it that much easier, && less suspicious. What about the white line in the grass that leads to about the same exact same spot as to where the projectile hit? How many boxes do you think get sent into the Pentagon on a daily basis either way??? It's an Office Building. Of course, that is all if a Boeing 757 Jumbo Jet indeed did NOT hit the Pentagon....like some eyewitnesses say. If the Government really says a plane hit the Pentagon, than why not just release the videotapes??? What's the big deal?? I could go on && on with this subject....talking about all the gaps in this so-called "Official Story", but I believe I've asked enough for now. One thing to keep asking yourself is "Could The United States Government have somehow threatened, or bribed, some of the eye-witnesses that say they really saw a 757, when it was, in actuality, something completely different? Could they have messed with the 5 seconds of tape that show SOMETHING that looks of a jet? Would they have killed all of those People, && lied to the entirety of the general public across the World for trillions of dollars? When all those zero's are flashed in-front of their eyes, do You not think they'd be tempted to do it? Are they not Human? Do they not succumb, like some people, to greed in the face of more Power && more Money?? Bush lied && cheated His way into being Our President. What lengths would He go to, to steal America? A Die-Hard Republican Bush lovers guess is as good as mine anyway, and likewise. But either way...I suppose, the only People who REALLY know what hit the Pentagon were the "true" eye-witnesses, and The Government. But these days....it's pretty hard to believe either. [edit on 24-8-2006 by Croissance Est Une Folie]

Furthermore, I always have a guilty feeling of being like "Well... the evidence must of been planted!" and I feel ridiculous making such an accusation personally but since the impact hole tells a completely different story, I will suffice to say.. Perhaps the evidence was planted.

Originally posted by Croissance Est Une Folie One thing to keep asking yourself is "Could The United States Government have somehow threatened, or bribed, some of the eye-witnesses that say they really saw a 757, when it was, in actuality, something completely different?

A simpler answer is that they told them what they saw.... FBI Guy: "No, ma'am, I am an expert and that was a 757" That would work on most people. Memory is malleable and believe it or not, memories can be "invented" or "implanted" in your brain. There have been many studies on this... I will look for a good one. The US Government has studied psy-ops for a LONG LONG time and know how the brain and memory function, they know how to control these things to an extent. Some "eyewitnesses" could simply be 'plants'. These are the reasons I do not really like "eyewitness" testimony as "evidence"... It always changes over time, memory is fallable, people can be tricked or paid off.

Along with what Slap Nuts explained, they teach you this in Psychology 101, how the mind is malleable. They explain that sort of reasoning with court cases and how eye witness testimony is falleable in that the witness can interpret what really happened wrong in that they don't have a clear perception of what happened. So if investigators come upon eye witnesses with the premise and let them know "What did the 757 look like that hit the building" then that's what they are to assume. It's not a far fetched subject to touch up basis on but as I've said, eye witness testimony isn't enough alone to debunk what hit the Pentagon, look at the impact hole damage, it tells its own story.

Originally posted by Slap Nuts These are the reasons I do not really like "eyewitness" testimony as "evidence"... It always changes over time, memory is fallable, people can be tricked or paid off.

Like William Rodriguez, huh?

I think it goes a bit beyond that custodian/janitor's testimony as to what happened in the basement/lobby level of the World Trade Center.

Let's see....we have dozens of witnesses that have come forward, many of whom were trained observers (yes they do teach you to pay attention to the details in the military) Let's see....planted "evidence" we have people who were on the scene immeadiately afterward who saw (and took pictures of) the shredded pieces of fuselage and wings. Let's see...we have post fire pictures that show the damage to the facade that came from the wings and the tail. Not to mention the pieces of the wings and tail that were found, nothing big, just pieces of shredded metal. Everybody seems to make the engines the focal point of their conspiracies. The engines should have made their own holes...the engines should have survived.....How do you know that they DIDNT find what was left of the engines? Oh yes, nobody posted it on the internet.......wow, thats proof enough for me. Better yet, explain how the remains of the people who were ON that airliner ended up in the wreckage at the Pentagon.

So what was the course of action for the engines on the 757? You have an aluminum bodied aircraft puncture through 3 rings of the Pentagon and appear to leave a pretty good sized and shaped hole through the C ring considering it smashed through 6 walls with one area of the building being reinforced by concrete and steel, yet we have steel engines finding a short coming and ending up not hurtling themselves through the building and going as far?

Originally posted by Masisoar So what was the course of action for the engines on the 757? You have an aluminum bodied aircraft puncture through 3 rings of the Pentagon and appear to leave a pretty good sized and shaped hole through the C ring considering it smashed through 6 walls with one area of the building being reinforced by concrete and steel, yet we have steel engines finding a short coming and ending up not hurtling themselves through the building and going as far?

I am not going to be nice about this, because I am tired of this same old garbage over and over. "it smashed through 6 walls with one area of the building being reinforced by concrete and steel." Wrong. Don't be a dope and learn more before coming here. [edit on 24-8-2006 by HowardRoark]

What am I incorrect about HowardRoark? 911research.wtc7.net...

The renovation program included the following improvements to the building: * Exterior walls reinforced with steel * Exterior walls backed with Kevlar * Blast-resistant windows installed * Fire sprinklers installed * Automatic fire doors installed * Building operations and control center created

911review.org... www.scholarsfor911truth.org...

American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757, is alleged to have punched through 6 blast-resistant concrete walls‹a total of nine feet of reinforced concrete‹before exiting through this hole.

Dunno where I'm wrong. EDIT: I'm not afraid to be wrong, no one's perfect, just want to see where my thinking was ill justified. [edit on 8/24/2006 by Masisoar]

There was ONE blast resistant wall. Only the outer wall was reinforced. The inner walls were simple masonry and regular concrete walls. And the ground level of the ring was one big area seperated by the masonry walls. IIRC only three walls.

The exterior walls had been reinforced with steel beams and columns, bolted where they met at each floor. Some of these reinforced walls very near the point of impact remained in place for a half hour before collapsing, allowing uncounted hundreds to escape. "Had we not undertaken this effort," said Evey at a press briefing on September 15, "this could have been much, much worse."

www.architectureweek.com...

Originally posted by Slap Nuts

Originally posted by Croissance Est Une Folie One thing to keep asking yourself is "Could The United States Government have somehow threatened, or bribed, some of the eye-witnesses that say they really saw a 757, when it was, in actuality, something completely different?

A simpler answer is that they told them what they saw.... FBI Guy: "No, ma'am, I am an expert and that was a 757" That would work on most people. Memory is malleable and believe it or not, memories can be "invented" or "implanted" in your brain.

FBI: "Sir please tell us about the 757 that you saw." Witness: Unsure about what he/she saw, the witness wrongly assumes that it must be a 757 because a person of authority is in front of them telling them to describe the 757 that they saw. So they describe the 757 that they saw. This kind of brute force questioning works with the vast majority of people. Most people will take the opinion of a so called expert without question and make it thier own. I know this because I do it to people everyday Most people are sheep and will not question a figure of authority. They are programmed that way. [edit on 24-8-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Believe me, I'm not making the assumptions all the walls were reinforced and I'm still on the fence with the issue because I still have a hard time believing how the aircraft managed the penetrate so far into the Pentagon, would it be no different shooting an aluminum can at re-enforced concrete? The 757's body wasn't a robust component that could withstand a lot. And I'm not going to be ignorant on the issue either, I am still on the fence, you can not convince me of either side, and I admit there is pretty good evidnece on the 757 and that's what I mostly support because covering up an aircraft if it didn't hit the Pentagon would be wayy to unconventional to pull off. Would just like to see one of the confiscated videos please.

You're talking approximately 80 tons impacting that reinforced wall. No concrete wall in the world short of a nuclear reactor is going to withstand that. Period. Whether it's aluminum or steel, it's 80 tons impacting concrete. It's going to go through.

Does not most of that mass constitute the fuel which was ignited on impact and the weight of the engines, which didn't penetrate so deep with the rest of the fuselage.. just wondering

Actually, over half of that was cargo/passengers/basic aircraft weight IIRC. I sat down and figure it out once and broke it down. It's not exact by any means, but it gives a pretty good idea of how much weight was with what on the plane.

So, wings gone, engines obliterated (wherever they went, god bless their souls), ailerons and tail blown to pieces in the impact, you're left with an aluminum alloy bodied fuselage, comprised of a skeleton frame structure that envelops the plane, with it tipped with a carbon fiber nose (correct me if I'm wrong), with the plane not being completely full, with a fuel bay housing in the middle center of the aircraft.. kk hold on. So the aircraft penetrates the Pentagon, the wings and tail section completely obliterated with the explosion, which would, on impact, consume and ignite the center body fuel tank, which in turn would obliterate that on impact, but a fuselage still managed to get THAT far through the Pentagon. I can understand at high velocities, it's been proven that even at Tornado speeds (200mph) things can turn into very penetrable missiles, but the last hole it created is very odd in its size, as how could the nose of the aircraft and the fuselage endure so much punishment yet keep a steady frame shape? Edit: And Zaphod, I know we've talked and your familiar with your aircraft, how would the nose endure to punch out a hole so deep yet leave no hardy parts of the aircraft left? If the nose could of survived the impact of the reinforced concrete and renovations done to the outer walls, how did manage to get all the way through but be completely apparently obliterated by the end? Lemme clarify this: The nose went through all 6 walls apparently entact to punch the hole through but if it was so durable would you not see any noticeable remnants, I havent see any pictures of it. My take is that when the nose hit the Pentagon it was obliterated, and the fuselage is mostly comprised of just air, so what would cause it to punched a strudy hole through the rest of the Pentagon rings? [edit on 8/24/2006 by Masisoar]

They didn't. The entire plane just shattered. However, you still have the MASS, and the parts that make up that mass travelling through the building. Even though the fuselage comes apart, you're still talking main spars, large heavy frame pieces, landing gear, etc that are going to travel through the building bouncing off things as they go. As far as the exit hole in the C ring, there was what appears to be a cargo door laying in the rubble pile, and I remember a pic of a wheel hub in there somewhere. So at least SOME of those parts made it that far. The fireball isn't going to just consume everything and melt/destroy/obliterate it all. The SMALLER pieces will be destroyed, but some of that framing is massive and strong. As far as the wings/tail/elevators, you're talking the weakest pieces of the plane structurally. The wings are basically hollow and only contain fuel tanks as far as mass. There are hydraulic pumps and control cables etc in them, but most of the wing mass is just the fuel tanks. The tail and elevators don't even have that in them. The vertical fin is held on by two very large bolts, but that's it.

Originally posted by Masisoar Lemme clarify this: The nose went through all 6 walls apparently entact to punch the hole through but if it was so durable would you not see any noticeable remnants, I havent see any pictures of it. My take is that when the nose hit the Pentagon it was obliterated, and the fuselage is mostly comprised of just air, so what would cause it to punched a strudy hole through the rest of the Pentagon rings?

What 6 walls? There were two concrete walls, and three masonry. The fuselage is composed of a lot more than just air. It has floor beams, wing spars, and a very reinforced structure that would go through that wall. Once it was inside and came apart then all the pieces contained in the fuselage would have been travelling through the building and could have punched the exit hole.