9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

No financial interests? Larry Silverstein

Six months before the 9/11 attacks the World Trade Center was "privatized" by being leased to a private sector developer. The lease was purchased by the Silverstein Group for $3.2 billion. "This is a dream come true," Larry Silverstein said. "We will be in control of a prized asset, and we will seek to develop its potential, raising it to new heights." But the World Trade Towers were not the real estate plum we are led to believe. From an economic standpoint, the trade center -- subsidized since its inception -- has never functioned, nor was it intended to function, unprotected in the rough-and-tumble real estate marketplace. www.businessweek.com... It was well-known by the city of New York that the WTC was an asbestos bombshell. For years, the Port Authority treated the building like an aging dinosaur, attempting on several occasions to get permits to demolish the building for liability reasons, but being turned down due the known asbestos problem. Further, it was well-known the only reason the building was still standing until 9/11 was because it was too costly to disassemble the twin towers floor by floor since the Port Authority was prohibited legally from demolishing the buildings. Other New York developers had been driven into bankruptcy by the costly mandated renovations, and $200 million represented an entire year's worth of revenues from the World Trade Towers. Instead of renovation, Silverstein is rebuilding, funded by the insurance coverage on the property which 'fortuitously' covered acts of terrorism. Even better, Silverstein filed TWO insurance claims for the maximum amount of the policy, based on the two, in Silverstein's view, separate attacks. The total potential payout is $7.1 billion, more than enough to build a fabulous new complex and leave a hefty profit for the Silverstein Group, including Larry Silverstein himself. As reported in The Washington Post, the insurance company, Swiss Re, has gone to court to argue that the 9/11 disaster was only one attack, not two and that therefore the insurance payout should be limited to $3.55 billion, still enough to rebuild the complex.

The Pentagon As mentioned by witnesses, the ‘’evidence’’ of flight 77 that you could see at the spot, were pieces so small that you could pick them up in your hand. No large tail sections, wing sections, cockpit etc. were found. The reason for this, according to the government official’s statement: The intense heat of the kerosene vaporized the entire plane. But how come the AFIP was able to identify 184 out of 189 people found at the Pentagon, while not even a part of the jet’s body survived? The engine of this specific type of Boeing is made of the follow materials: steel and titanium, with a total weight of twelve tons. Melting point of titanium: 1688 degrees Celsius Kerosene: can retain a constant temperature of 1120 degrees Celsius after 40 minutes, but only if the fuel is maintained. This scientifically proves it is impossible the engines were totally vaporized by the jet fuel. The engine & wreckage A lawn on which a plane crashed: The lawn of the Pentagon, I am not an expert, but in my opinion it seems to be impossible to fly such a jet halve a meter above the ground, and thus without sliding on the ground. So Schwarz is a fraud and a proven conspiracy theorist? Whom proved this? No he isn’t, in cotrast, he is the president, and chief executive officer of Patmos Nanotechnologies LLC and I-Nets Security Systems, not just an ordinary conspiracy theorist. Some saw an commercial jet, others saw a 28 seats corporate jet with no markings. As you stated, no one mentioned seeing a cruise missile, nor did the documentary claim it was a cruise missile that hit the Pentagon.

Cordite is a particular family of smokeless propellants made by combining two high explosives: nitrocellulose and nitro-glycerine, i.e. it is a double-base propellant. However, Cordite N, a triple-base propellant is also used (see below). Cordite is classified as an explosive, but it is normally used as a propellant for guns and rockets.

Not just a single person smelled the cordite; more people smelled it: ‘’We saw a huge black cloud of smoke, she said, saying it smelled like cordite, or gun smoke.’’ Gillah Goldsmith, the Guardian ‘’Even before stepping outside I could smell the cordite. I knew explosives had been set off somewhere.’’ Don Perkal, MSNBC The cameras of the Sheraton hotel; a local gas station, and the department of transportation recorded the entire happening. However, FBI agents were there in minutes to confiscate the tapes and warned the employees not to discuss what they had seen on the video tapes.. If these cameras show the 77 hitting the Pentagon, then it would be the proof for the government to convince everyone it was a yet, then why is it so hard to release the tapes publicly? The only released tape was a five seconds during tape of just one security camera, which doesn’t give a proper insight.

Mdv, you are still using sources that have proven to be wrong. Charles Burlingame left the Naval Reserve in 1996, over FOUR YEARS from the MASCAL exercise. In other words, he was not involved in it. Larry Silverstein DID have the insurance policy that included acts of terrorism, however, that was a requirement of the banks. He originally wanted a smaller policy, but that again, was not acceptable to the banks. Willie Brown gets call from his airport security people to be cautious about air travel. www.sfgate.com.../chronicle/archive/2001/09/12/MN229389 It really ISNT that hard to find out the truth about the crackpot allegations in Loose Change. You just have to be willing to look at something other than internet conspiracy sites. And again, you claim that no pieces of the airliner wreckage were found, when there are tons of photos showing different. Of course you quote that nameless government "official" who only lives on conspiracy sites and not on ANY official reports. The official reports say much different. Indeed the AFIP would have been able to identify ALL 189 of the dead....had they had DNA samples for the five terrorists. And then the security camera issue again. Again, it is assumed that the Sheraton would spend the money to install a camera to watch the Pentagon, rather than the Sheraton's parking lot. How do you know that the camera captured the entire thing? Oh yes, someone on an internet site/movie said so........

but why not throw in my 2 cents on behalf of this part of an interesting family :

Why is this mockumentary such crap? Where should I start? It is alleged that Marvin Bush ran security for the WTC on 9/11. While he was a member of the board that did run security for the WTC, he had nothing to do with the day to day operation. In addition, he left his position as a board member in June 2000, 14 months or so before 9/11.

Ofcourse he would have left the board in time, when he knew 9/11 was coming. And when he was compliant in aiding the technical setup of the WTC events. I would like to bring the following to your attention also then : 1) Marvin Bush Employee's mysterious death - connections to 9/11? Did Bertha Champagne know more about Stratasec? Did she hear too much from chit chat between the 2 children of Marvin, and Marvin? And did she confront Marvin with that knowledge, realizing what nefarious plot had been played out on 9/11? Who will ever know...

Sixty-two year old Bertha Champagne, described as a long time "baby sitter" for Marvin and Margaret Bush's two children, son Walker, 13, and daughter Marshall, 17, was found crushed to death by her own vehicle in a driveway in front of the Bush family home in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County. Champagne reportedly lived at the Bush family home. ( Read More...) Champagne had left the residence to retrieve something from her car, which police say had somehow been left in gear. According to the police report, the car rolled forward and pinned the woman between it and a small building next to the driveway (possibly a checkpoint built by the Secret Service when Marvin's father, George H. W. Bush, was president). The car crossed Edgehill Drive, a small street in front of the Bush compound. The vehicle then crossed a busy two-lane street, Fort Hunt Road, finally coming to rest in a wooded area across the street that adjoins the prestigious Belle Haven Country Club. No explanation have been offered as to why the vehicle did not move until Champagne was in a position to be crushed. -SNIP- Courtney Young, a spokesperson for the Fairfax County police was surprised when asked about the circumstances surrounding Champagne's death.-SNIP- Young said police still did not know the exact cause of Champagne's death. Young said the police had posted the incident on its web site in a press release, although the report makes no mention of Marvin Bush.-SNIP- The chairman of the board of Stratesec is Wirt D. Walker III, a cousin of Marvin and George W. Bush. Securacom had contracts to provide security for Dulles International Airport (the airport from which American Airlines Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon, originated) and the World Trade Center in New York.

Anybody still thinks this was all "normal business, as usual" ? Nothing stinks to high heaven? 2) Secrecy surrounds a Bush Brother's role in 911 security 3) Marvin Bush Cashes in On Government Security Did anybody know up till now, that not only Marvin was on the board of directors of Stratesec (renamed to Securacom), but that the damned chairman of the board of directors, Wirt D. Walker III, is a cousin of Marvin, George W. and Jeb Bush ! Remember, the W in the Bush names comes from the Walker family, who accepted the later war profiteer and NAZI sympatisant Prescott Bush in their cosy family circles. Btw, Marvin Bush is not the only family member in this picture. His brother Jeb Bush, Florida's governor, is also an investor in the Winston Capital Fund, managed by Marvin Bush's firm.

Walker also serves as a managing director of KuwAm, which maintains offices within the Watergate complex along with Riggs Bank, on whose board Bush's uncle, Jonathan Bush, sits. Saudi Princess Haifa al Faisal, the wife of Saudi Ambassador to the US, Prince Bandar, used a Riggs account to funnel money to Omar al Bayoumi and Osama Basnan, two Saudi students in California associated with two of the 911 hijackers.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999 Mdv, you are still using sources that have proven to be wrong. Charles Burlingame left the Naval Reserve in 1996, over FOUR YEARS from the MASCAL exercise. In other words, he was not involved in it.

Charles Burlingame had actually retired 20 years earlier, but he still participated in the MASCAL exercise at the Pentagon, a year before the attacks: Charles F. Burlingame III was the pilot of flight 77. He was an F-4 pilot in the Navy, and as his last Navy mission, he had helped craft Pentagon response plans in the event of a commercial airliner hitting the Pentagon. Source: Associated Press. August 22, 2002

What proves me wrong?

At Dulles Airport, Capt. Charles Burlingame, who had been a Navy F-4 pilot and once worked on anti-terrorism strategies in the Pentagon. Washington Post

The Washington Post reported on 16 September 2001 that the pilot of Flight 77 was former F-4 fighter pilot Charles Burlingame III, who in his last Navy job, developed anti-terror strategies for the Navy before retiring to fly for American Airlines. He drafted the Pentagon’s emergency response plan in case it was hit by a civilian airliner. Flight 77 allegedly struck the Pentagon. It is not clear which MASCAL Charles Burlingame III authored.

Washington Post, a conspiracy site?

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999 Larry Silverstein DID have the insurance policy that included acts of terrorism, however, that was a requirement of the banks. He originally wanted a smaller policy, but that again, was not acceptable to the banks.

Instead of just making loose statements, you'd rather show me your ''non-conspiracy'' sources. As Business Week states, the WTC was not a profitable business and from the start on subsidized.

[The towers] came prepackaged as a ruin that has slowly been moving in the direction of becoming a living building

So what is the underlying background for the real estate tycoon Silverstein to buy the Towers?

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999 Willie Brown gets call from his airport security people to be cautious about air travel. www.sfgate.com.../chronicle/archive/2001/09/12/MN229389

So, why would he have been warned, if Rice said during the aftermath ''No one ever imagined a domestic airplane could be used as a weapon''. If they didn't expect it, then why did they improve the protection of the WTC against air attacks, then why did they send out a travel warning?

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999 And again, you claim that no pieces of the airliner wreckage were found, when there are tons of photos showing different. Of course you quote that nameless government "official" who only lives on conspiracy sites and not on ANY official reports. The official reports say much different. Indeed the AFIP would have been able to identify ALL 189 of the dead....had they had DNA samples for the five terrorists.

Now you definitely forced yourself to show me pictures of the cockpit, the engines, and the wings. I have never claimed no pieces of the aircraft were found, prove me the opposite, and again show me the requested pictures, from your ''official'' sources.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999 And then the security camera issue again. Again, it is assumed that the Sheraton would spend the money to install a camera to watch the Pentagon, rather than the Sheraton's parking lot. How do you know that the camera captured the entire thing? Oh yes, someone on an internet site/movie said so........

Watch this and: img342.imageshack.us... [edit on 6-7-2006 by Mdv2]

Just how big do you think the pieces of the fuselage were? Maybe a better question would be, how big do YOU think they should be. Nice picture of the VDOT cameras btw. But I was referring to the Sheraton camera. Although, again it is HIGHLY unlikely that the VDOT would put cameras up and focus them on the Pentagon, rather than the roadways. At best you might have a blurry glimpse of the jet on one or two which really wouldnt prove much of anything to conspiracy theorists. You might want to see if you can find somewhere that keeps AP corrections on file to...not saying why, but it might be something enlightening to look for.

The "external" source that you used to show Burlingame authored the MASCAL appears to be this site. www.aldeilis.net... They attribute their information to the Washington Post. However, checking the Washington Post for that Sept 16 story says NOTHING about Burlingame working on MASCAL planning. www.washingtonpost.com... So is the Washington Post a conspiracy site? No. However, aldeilis.net made up its own story using a line from the Washington Post.

Try to outline the color and figure as best you can. This is all I'm doing, is showing a grey-silver "Boeing 757". The 1st is the plane, and the second is without the plane. Take a look at the back tail and see that there might be a part of the design of the plane, such as these in this commuter jet photo: Now look at the middle wing, and it looks like a fuselage/ or wing, but my guess is wing since lawn is not damaged. The front of the plane, there is a white/light color that appears in front, not sure what that is. Of course, there is the smoke trail. Please don't bash me, I'm just showing a photo. I wish they would just let us know.

why is this thread on the front page? oh i know, ATS is run by shills.

Isn't a better explanation that it is already 170 pages long, indicating to the board staff it IS attractive to people?

Originally posted by joepits why is this thread on the front page? oh i know, ATS is run by shills.

The counter-point thread is also advertised on the front page:

Originally posted by Mdv2

“John W, Brown, spokesman for Rolls Royce (Indianapolis) It’s not a part from any Rolls Royce Engine that I’m familiar with, and certainly not the AE 3007H made here in Indy.” That’s nice, but the Boeing 757 was powered by RB211 engines, not AE 3007H, so this proves exactly nothing. What is the AE3007H used for?

The AE 3007 is the exclusive engine for all 30-50 seat Embraer regional jets (ERJ), the Embraer Legacy corporate aircraft, and the Cessna Citation X business jet. It also is the sole powerplant for the Northrop Grumman Ryan Aeronautical Center Global Hawk unmanned surveillance aircraft.

www.rolls-royce.com... So it’s apparently not from a Global Hawk. Edit: This goes for you too shroom:

Originally posted by Shroomery Oh? But lets leave out the people actually MAKING the boeing parts, stating that they do not belong to one? (OOPS)

[edit on 7-7-2006 by HowardRoark]

vor75 posted this link in another thread. It pretty much closes the case on what hit the Pentagon in my opinion. Flight 77 Case Study If it has been posted in this thread prevoiusly I apologize I wasn't about to wade through 170 pages.

Originally posted by Mdv2 The engine of this specific type of Boeing is made of the follow materials: steel and titanium, with a total weight of twelve tons. Melting point of titanium: 1688 degrees Celsius Kerosene: can retain a constant temperature of 1120 degrees Celsius after 40 minutes, but only if the fuel is maintained. This scientifically proves it is impossible the engines were totally vaporized by the jet fuel.

Have you considered what would happen to an engine running at maximum thrust if you slam into a concrete wall? Parts of that engine were running at upwards of 10,000 rpm. The outer edge of a 3 foot diameter disk turning 10,000 rpm would be moving at around 1000 mph.

Originally posted by HowardRoark Have you considered what would happen to an engine running at maximum thrust if you slam into a concrete wall? Parts of that engine were running at upwards of 10,000 rpm. The outer edge of a 3 foot diameter disk turning 10,000 rpm would be moving at around 1000 mph.

Well, since there is a photo of an "identifiable engine part" from inside the pentagon, I would assume that at least large chunks of it would remain partially intact. Of course the fins would be gone and the shroud but other parst should have/were dense/strong enough to survive. P.S. I do not claim to know what hit the Pentagon, just that the wreckage does not SEEM "right". Low enough trajectory/flight plane to hit lamp posts but high enough angle of attack to miss the lawn totally? Do we have an explanation for that in these 170 pages or are we to now assume that the plane of attack was level and unchanged by the lamp posts and maintained long enough to avoid the lawn? [edit on 7-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]

Originally posted by Mdv2 The engine of this specific type of Boeing is made of the follow materials: steel and titanium, with a total weight of twelve tons. Melting point of titanium: 1688 degrees Celsius Kerosene: can retain a constant temperature of 1120 degrees Celsius after 40 minutes, but only if the fuel is maintained. This scientifically proves it is impossible the engines were totally vaporized by the jet fuel.

Vaporize no, disintergrate yes. All of the internal components of a jet engine have one thing in common, they are designed to take high temperatures. Anyone who is familiar with metalurgy can tell you that when you alloy metals to take high temperatures a side effect is that these alloys become brittle. When the plane impacted the Pentagon the turbines of the engines were spinning at a high RPM. All of that kinetic energy had to go somewhere. What the turbine blades didn't shred when the seperated from their wheels the impact shattered. If you sifted through the debris you could probably account for the mass of each engine.

Originally posted by JIMC5499 When the plane impacted the Pentagon the turbines of the engines were spinning at a high RPM. All of that kinetic energy had to go somewhere.

There is more to a jet engine than rotor blades! Just because the rotor blades might have shatered it doesn't explain where the engine casings are, or the rotor shafts. The main 'turbine fan' I can somewhat understand cause it's right at the front, but that's just one rotor. The compressor blades are nicely protected inside that engine casing, how would their kinetic energy cause the whole engine to disapear? That's like saying your car engine broke up into tiny little pieces cause your pistons failed.

F415-WR-402 that powers the new Raytheon-built Tactical Tomahawk missile

Erm... Tomahawk has a body diameter of 21 inches, ie 533mm. As your pic shows the compressor diameter is smaller. I doubt that part from the Pentagon pic would fit into the Tomahawk, let alone leave some space for the air flow.

Originally posted by ANOK There is more to a jet engine than rotor blades! Just because the rotor blades might have shatered it doesn't explain where the engine casings are, or the rotor shafts. The main 'turbine fan' I can somewhat understand cause it's right at the front, but that's just one rotor. The compressor blades are nicely protected inside that engine casing, how would their kinetic energy cause the whole engine to disapear? That's like saying your car engine broke up into tiny little pieces cause your pistons failed.

Ever see a jet engine ingest a bolt? They explode like a bomb. The compressor and combustion casings are formed from a brittle alloy and will shatter. The heavier components like the turbine wheel hub may survive intact like the one shown in the picture. The Fuel Control section being made from cast aluminum MAY melt or it could be shattered. I worked the crash of US Air Flight 427 in Pennsylvania in 1994, a Boeing 737 the engines from that crash were recovered in pieces. Compaired to the Pentagon crash Flight 427 had a SOFT impact. Untill that time I was training to be an Air Crash Investigator, that one changed my mind. The picture shown in this thread is of a turbine wheel minus the blades, add about 20 inches to the diameter and then tell me its from a Tomahawk.

Just for people that think that a 757 traveling at 500mph would not create any kind of Compressablity or Ground effect should look at this pic of a 757 leaving wing tip and main vortez waves. photos.airliners.net... [edit on 8-7-2006 by ULTIMA1]