You are wrong about Iran.

reply to post by nightbringr


I would bet 10,000 ATS points that you aren't CSIS.

reply to post by superman2012


Thanks.

It just really seem strange to me. Makes me feel that there is so much happening behind the scenes that we will never know.

An important note to everyone replying on this thread:

These are my opinions which I have backed up with facts. I am not saying I am 100% right, only that everything I have stated is backed up with facts that I have found. If you can prove me wrong, then do it! Don't get sidelined. I have a habit of doing that too!

reply to post by nightbringr


But once again the important thing to remember is these are murders carried out by sick individuals. These are not murders carried out with the explicit permission of the government! This is a very important distinction. If you do not understand why that is so important, you truely have no clue.

Iran hangs homosexuals with the permission of the government. That is so very wrong and evil on so many levels. ,

still in the end this not a USA problem, we here in the states need to stop being the world barometer of morality and world police to every little cause .the coming war on Iran is no better that the one on Iraq. the propagandist are doing the exact same thing as before. this war is about controlling oil or better yet DENYING the oil from china .

Originally posted by superman2012

Originally posted by dadgad
Iran is extremely intolerable against home-sexuality. It's just despicable.

Some Human rights activists and opponents of the Iranian regime claim between 4,000 and 6,000 gay men and lesbians have been executed in Iran for crimes related to their sexual preference since 1970

In 2007, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, speaking to Columbia University, said that homosexuality does not exist in Iran, though a spokesperson later stated that his comments were misunderstood.[2] Homosexuality is a crime punishable by imprisonment, corporal punishment, or in some cases of sodomy, even execution of the accused is legal under the laws of this country's theocratic Islamic government.[3] Any type of sexual activity outside a heterosexual marriage is forbidden.

en.wikipedia.org...-Islamic_period

Even though I oppose any military intervention, I completely despise this nations regime. I will never choose it's side.

When even the most mundane things such as sexual preference cannot be expressed in freedom, then you are truly still a barbaric nation.

edit on 9-1-2012 by dadgad because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-1-2012 by dadgad because: (no reason given)

More children were murdered in the US during that same time...ATTENTION: THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, THIS ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT I STATED IN THE FIRST TWO SENTENCES OF THIS THREAD. IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER THIS THREAD AFTER READING THE FIRST TWO SENTENCES, THEN FEEL FREE TO LEAVE. Thank you.

More children were murdered during that time in the US... by who if may ask? Were they executed by under federal law?

What are you talking about.

Originally posted by superman2012

Originally posted by Frira

Originally posted by superman2012

Originally posted by Frira

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

Originally posted by RizeorDie
The jew controls USA, but it can never control the Islamic republic.

Look at the map above - I wouldn't be too confident. Iran is utterly surrounded.

We have had this discussion.

Show the location of the former Soviet bases.

Indicate which of the American bases are there at the request of those governments, and for how long.

Then, and only then will that map indicate anything worth discussing-- LIKE HISTORY!... and then you will not want to discuss it-- until it gets posted again ...
* as if not already discussed;
* as if you do not know the dishonesty if its presentation--
and in hopes that bright educated persons will not descend upon the thread and point out the historically obvious to the bunch of blog-sucking morons who have not a clue of anything that ever happened in the world prior to 2001.

Harsh letter follows.

Like I said, we have had this discussion before-- and it will go the same way.

This has nothing to do with the current situation in Iran. Most of the 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, none were from Iran or Iraq. There is no current reason for the economic sanctions besides what I have stated before.

Correct! And you just added the map to your OP because you liked the pretty colors?

Dishonest presentation -- it none the less suits your agenda-- and so you used it.

That is my point. Which you just conceded.

There is no "discussion" when the agenda trumps the facts.

And when you get buried in facts which call you out and expose your dishonesty-- you (or another) will start another thread, so as to erase the facts from the discussion and try again with your propaganda.

Here was DJW001's analysis: www.abovetopsecret.com...

And here is mine: www.abovetopsecret.com...

So you are denying that the US is threatening Iran?

Please show how I have started another thread to erase the facts from discussion? Your accusations are making your credibility fall faster than Obama's approval rating. I have never seen you before, but, if you are anything like DJW001, than I have to say that I expect this from you then. Stay on topic please. Read the first two lines of the opening post if you are still confused.

I am responding directly to something you posted.

I have made no false statement-- I merely pay attention.

That map has shown up in numerous threads on ATS as "evidence" that the US has strategic intent in Iran invasion (and Switzerland!)-- but it only does so if the interpretation of the map is taken out of historical context-- which is exactly what those using it count on happening.

The bases did not change -- with the exception of Iraq and Afghanistan, it is the political issues within that region which have changed, but you have used that map in hopes that such historical context will not be noticed.

I have not seen a single mention in any of these threads which address the REAL offense Iran has against the US: the Eisenhower Administration changing US policy opposing British Imperial actions in Iran and instead using the CIA to confront what that administration wrongly believed to be a Soviet threat.

That history is understandable, but inexcusable. The Cold War was being fought over Iran, and Iran had no allies pleading for the good of the Iranian people. All of Iran was treated as a pawn-- continuing the pawnship seen during World War II.

But those things are not address-- because they invoke reason rather than emotion. They suggest (in several steps of historically informed logic) several paths which Iranian leadership COULD take for internal autonomy as well as means of joining the greater community of the whole world. But instead, most of what the world sees and hears from Iran is trite propaganda, inflammatory statements and saber rattling actions all in the name of national identity.

While national identity is easily understood in a 20th Century context-- it is a bad mix with nuclear implications today.

Iran has been politically, economically, and socially stunted by world powers-- but also has responsibility for itself. If Iran wants to be self-directing, the rest of the world wants to see its leadership taking that path with some measure of confidence that it also seeks to be a good neighbor-- beyond whatever national identity emerges.

So far, not so good; and like it or not-- the saber rattling may translate into national pride-- but it will also insure that Iran will continue to be used as a pawn-- better a pawn than a Rook, Knight, etc... on the world board of Chess.

reply to post by bluemirage5


please if you cannot bring nice reasons then do NOT leave a reply! it was IRAQ who invaded Iran and not vice versa! you seem to be of kind of people who cannot accet defeat even in the most logical way! you want to just tell something to get yourself out of red zone!
they are not hung for minor reasons. for example a couple of weeks ago in Zagedan(southern provine) two young men attacked a young teacher in her way home from a village and after raping they killed this innocent girl(teacher) just for.... well if you call it a minor crime then you are like those two men!

reply to post by superman2012


I'd venture to say most ATSers are not old enough to remember that not too long ago, Iran was a friend of the US. We supplied them with weapons, and went to bat for them like we currently do with Israel. Iran had a republic established, and was much more democratic than they are currently.

In May 1901, William Knox D'Arcy was granted a concession by the Shah of Iran to search for oil, which he discovered in May 1908.[17] This was the first commercially significant find in the Middle East. On 14 April 1909, the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC) was incorporated as a subsidiary of Burmah Oil Company to exploit this.[17] In 1923, it employed future Prime Minister, Winston Churchill as a paid consultant, to lobby the British government to allow Burmah to have exclusive rights to Persian oil resources, which were successfully granted.[18] In 1935, it became the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC).[17]

The interest of the western nations regarding Iran, has been oil since day one.

When Iran realized they were tricked into getting shafted by the greedy oil investors they were "dealt with"

By spring of 1953, incoming US President Dwight D. Eisenhower authorised the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to organise a coup against the Mossadeq government with support from the British government.[23] On 19 August 1953, Mossadeq was forced from office by the CIA conspiracy, involving the Shah and the Iranian military, and known by its codename, Operation Ajax.[23]

And thats why they dont like the western nations. Cant really blame em.

Wikipedia

Originally posted by IranianBoy
they are not hung for minor reasons.

Can you then please tell me the what the reasons for these poor young men being hung for were?

gawker.com...

direland.typepad.com...

www.iranfocus.com...

The only charges i see pressed were sodomy. Is that all you have to do to be put to death to please your god and bloodthirsty government?

reply to post by superman2012


Hi. well about sanctions, they have about 10% up to 15% effect on our daily live still up to now. because we have indeed everything we want. also most of our goods are supplies by chinese, korean and japanese companies but almost NO american ones(due to sanctions). Well as a person who has a knack in politics i ensure you that Ahmadinejad will NEVER give up nuclear program. NEVER. (i also like this position). I think and prefer resistence in front of those bullying government lik Uncle Sam and Great Bretain and ... who always want to devour resources and have all the things for themselve. have you eer noticed the shape of pyramid in your dollars and the EYE above it. well it is the sign of FREEMASONS. this pyramid has 13 rows, and many 13 things in the dollar and sign of rabbit in right-side and many other marks of freemasons.
Well about their hostility to us, certainly it IS NOT JUST FOR OIL .your government is fearful of our ideology getting spread. they dont want iran to be a symbol of independence despite all the western sanctions. they always downplay our achievement e.g nuclear = from pakistan, missile=from north korea, ..... but we have made them ourselves! LOOK we are the first muslim nation who are going to sent a live animal to space and many other achievement BUT ALL WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM BIG POWERS, !!
We have followed NPT ! we formerly have answerd npt's question in al baradei time, ongoing issues are just political shows by US.

reply to post by IranianBoy


Man I don't believe there is another Iranian on ATS.

This man is a bomb of information,here.

Welcome on ATS.

Most of the people know about Pyramids on dollars and other agendas.

They simply close their eyes on those facts.

They are too much brainwashed.

reply to post by superman2012


That's about as constructive of a comment as I would have for you. If America is so awful and Iran is so great go then. We won't miss you. Good luck with your free speech over there. That is if you survive after your CIA trial. The US doesn't stop its citizens from leaving. Have a nice trip.

reply to post by IranianBoy


Care to respond to my above post asking about the hanging of gay men accused of nothing more than being gay?

Do you approve?

It would be suicide for Iran to use a nucular weapon. Do you really think they're that stupid? They'd be blown off the map within minutes. Not only that, our own CIA has stated that they're no where near the point of getting one. I'm so sick of the pro war propaganda brainwashing people into going into Iran and starting a 3rd world war. Grow a brain.

reply to post by IranianBoy and hmdphantom

I welcome you as well, we learn best from many teachers.

I'm the one member of ATS that you can count on to be confused, and I am again. May I explain why?

Well about their hostility to us, certainly it IS NOT JUST FOR OIL .your government is fearful of our ideology getting spread.

Has anyone asked why our government is fearful of that ideology? We are not afraid of anyone else's ideology that I can recall. We may be afraid of their armies, but not their ideas. You should explore what the West sees in Islam that is different from the rest of the world's ideologies. I think I know the reasons, but you have heard them before.

Ahmadinejad will NEVER give up nuclear program. NEVER. . . . they always downplay our achievement e.g nuclear = from pakistan, missile=from north korea, ..... but we have made them ourselves!

So, Iran has missiles from North Korea, nuclear warheads from Pakistan (which is earth shaking news in itself), but you also say "We have followed NPT! Can you see why I'm confused?

You also mention that most of your goods are supplied by Chinese, Korean, and Japanese companies, but that your achievements are without any help from big powers. Those two ideas seem contradictory.

I hope you'll take the time to correct my misunderstandings.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


Well i am an MA student and have a big exam comin in 2 days BUT i am glad to provide answers.
First if you want to understand our ideology in a true sense i introduce you these books:
1_Doctrines_of_Shi_i_Islam__A_Compendium_of_Imami_Beliefs_and_Practices.pdf
2_After_the_Prophet__The_Epic_Story_of_the_Shia_Sunni_Split_in_Islam.epub
you can download them at www.library.nu
PLEASEead them then you understand the whole matter for ever.

about missile, nuclear technology and so on, i said those western power always want to downplay our achievement by saying that those achievements are not ours but made by others! while it is not true.


and i meant most of our DAILY foreign goods are supplie by china, korea and ..i DID NOT SAY OUR sophisticated TECHNOLOGY! no country will give you a technology like sending things into space!

Originally posted by nightbringr

Originally posted by superman2012
More children were murdered in the US during that same time...

But once again the important thing to remember is these are murders carried out by sick individuals. These are not murders carried out with the explicit permission of the government! This is a very important distinction. If you do not understand why that is so important, you truely have no clue.

Iran hangs homosexuals with the permission of the government. That is so very wrong and evil on so many levels.

edit on 9-1-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

Yes and the U.S had guatanamo bay (and more) to indefinitely hold,torture and kill.These prisons were setup in those locations because the local laws allowed them to operate in the way they did.But even worse is because it allowed the U.S to ignore their own human rights laws because it did not occur on U.S soil.Only when the story broke is it that the front running puppets showed their faces on TV condemming it in disgust and claiming ignorance.

Yet still today,it has not been closed down.


My point being,

IT would be too hypocritical for the u.s to point out human rights to a country while they themselves got out of their way AND spend millions to avoid their own human rights laws.


So let this be the end of the human rights discussion and the rock throwing because not matter what they will come right back into your face since the U.S violates them just as easily and even a lot of money to do so.

Let the thread go back on-topic.

At least we don't publicly hang homosexuals with the governments permission.

Um no maybe you don't, but, your policy of providing arms to the United Arab Emir, and SUPPORTING a just as backward regime as IRAN, definitely IS.
The emir states policy of cutting the heads off women for "Sorcery", Stoning them to death for "Adultery", oh yes, killing gays when they discover them is just the biggest smack in the face HYPOCRISY can muster in terms of American alliances and the utter procrastination and hypocrisy that situation engenders. FACT.
I doubt you will agree though because they are your countrys friends. lol

So yes gays are being executed with your governments tacit approval.

Originally posted by Tesclo
It would be suicide for Iran to use a nucular weapon. Do you really think they're that stupid? They'd be blown off the map within minutes. Not only that, our own CIA has stated that they're no where near the point of getting one. I'm so sick of the pro war propaganda brainwashing people into going into Iran and starting a 3rd world war. Grow a brain.

Iran will not use nukes for the reasons you stated, what people forget is that IRAN mopped up a massive amount of knowledge of bio-weapons when they employed hordes of out of work russian bio-weapons researchers after the collapse of the former soviet union.
The soviet "Brain Drain" has given Iran far more deadly weapons than nuclear, BIO agents are cheap to mass produce, easily concealable, and no doubt as we wonder what is happening, in the hands of IRANIAN sleeper agents in western countries around the world.
This is the biggest threat, I would not be surprised if a pandemic airborne H5N1 plague went global if war is declared on IRAN.
They have some of the brightest bio-weapons minds the world has to offer, if it has been created in a lowly dutch lab, bet your life a state with massive resources has done the same thing already.

Originally posted by Rafe_
Yes and the U.S had guatanamo bay (and more) to indefinitely hold,torture and kill.

True.

These people detained here are not simply innocent gays however. They are POWs. I do agree that Guantanamo needs to be torn down or made more transparent. Again, im no fan of the USA either.