Christianity, is it child emotional abuse?

reply to post by gabby2011

I have made some mistakes wildtimes.. but I am not the hateful person you say or think I am...

and you want me to accept that as your word, when you have refused to accept it from me?

I have apologized... and so have you..

Yep, and then I left you alone. But you followed me, and started in again. That is browbeating, and a form of abuse (stalking and shaming).

Because you have apologized for the hateful things you have said about me.. does that make it ok to continue..?

As long as you continue to call me hateful liar, yes. It makes it ok.

Jesus may have had some philosophies comparable to Buddhism but they are not Buddhist.. they are Christian...coming from His father.

The Buddhists came first, gabs. They taught him. The philosophies are Buddhist. BUT I applaud you for stating that he "may have had some that are comparable" to Buddhists. That's a start. Now, keep digging in THAT direction, and then see if it doesn't help to round out your personal ideology.

I don't want to argue with you wildtimes.. I sincerely want to love you.. through the love of the Holy Spirit.. and I will continue to pray for you..in love.

Thanks. I don't want to argue with you either. You are not "a failure" yet. Your BEHAVIOR is incorrect, therefore in your behavior you are "failing" to live up to what you profess. And your TECHNIQUES, while possibly well-intentioned, are "failing to portray you as truly compassionate and sincere.

I know you CAN do it, and I am certain we are all climbing the same mountain each on his or her own path. I DO think we are all part of the divine. Keep trying. In good faith.

reply to post by vogon42


I in no way enable others to abuse a child.. but not disciplining your child and teaching them appropriate behavior could be considered abuse as well.

I would encourage any child to tell me if they are being sexually manipulated by anyone.. I would encourage any child to to tell me if others are using fear to make them do things they do not agree with.

It seems like a no win situation for some parents.. If they discipline their child by taking things away to show then consequences.. they are not letting kids be kids.. if their child acts up.. they are bad parents not teaching their child how to behave.

Children need to know what is acceptable.. and a good stern warning from parents is a must at times.

Tell me.. how do you feel when a child throws a huge tantrum in a store lineup because they want something that is hanging by the checkout isle?.. Do you respect the parent who gives in to the tantrum..and gets the child the chocolate bar?.. or do you respect the parent who tells the child.. if you continue with this behavior.. you will still not get the chocolate bar..and you will not be allowed to watch your favorite cartoon when we get home.

reply to post by wildtimes

Yep, and then I left you alone. But you followed me, and started in again. That is browbeating, and a form of abuse (stalking and shaming).

??.. I have stayed off the Lisa thread specifically to let you be.. can I not have comments on some other posts you make?

Perhaps you really need to look at who is stalking who.. you sent me a private u2u asking for my participation in your thread?/ why did you do that? perhaps so you could continue arguing? Why would you deliberately invite me to your thread.. if you felt I had been stalking you?

The Buddhists came first, gabs. They taught him. The philosophies are Buddhist. BUT I applaud you for stating that he "may have had some that are comparable" to Buddhists. That's a start. Now, keep digging in THAT direction, and then see if it doesn't help to round out your personal ideology.

Is the above your way of letting me have my own beliefs?.. Jesus was around long before Buddha.. but not on this earth..

Thanks. I don't want to argue with you either. You are not "a failure" yet. Your BEHAVIOR is incorrect, therefore in your behavior you are "failing" to live up to what you profess. And your TECHNIQUES, while possibly well-intentioned, are "failing to portray you as truly compassionate and sincere.

I think it may be wise to be more concerned about your own behavior...and whether you come across as compassionate and sincere.

But thanks for saying I am not a failure YET.. how divinely inspirational of you..

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by vogon42

 

I in no way enable others to abuse a child.. but not disciplining your child and teaching them appropriate behavior could be considered abuse as well.

I would encourage any child to tell me if they are being sexually manipulated by anyone.. I would encourage any child to to tell me if others are using fear to make them do things they do not agree with.

It seems like a no win situation for some parents.. If they discipline their child by taking things away to show then consequences.. they are not letting kids be kids.. if their child acts up.. they are bad parents not teaching their child how to behave.

Children need to know what is acceptable.. and a good stern warning from parents is a must at times.

Tell me.. how do you feel when a child throws a huge tantrum in a store lineup because they want something that is hanging by the checkout isle?.. Do you respect the parent who gives in to the tantrum..and gets the child the chocolate bar?.. or do you respect the parent who tells the child.. if you continue with this behavior.. you will still not get the chocolate bar..and you will not be allowed to watch your favorite cartoon when we get home.

Gabby I'm still wondering where you get a that children have a penchant for sin? You said that several posts back and I still don't understand that.

When I see a child throwing a tantrum in a store its not that big of a deal. Not the first time I've seen it. I think to myself, "Mom's having a bad day with that one. Bet she wishes she could have just gone shopping by herself." A lot of Mom's just ignore it. They put the chocolate bar or whatever back on the shelf and just ignore the tantrum. Some Moms make a huge fuss about it right in the store and draw to themselves and the whole situation. I don't think thats wise. Its not that I don't feel bad for the Moms, I do. But the child hasn't sinned and that is the only point I really have in this. A child is learning..is gonna make mistakes..maybe even make you pull your hair out but its all part of learning and parenting.

I don't have kids..I will say that straight up. And the reason is I didn't have a great example to go by. I don't want to pass it down ok? And a bunch of it did come from attitudes the church passed along to my parents. My brother has no kids either. We decided long ago we didn't have a good enough example.

But I do know this..there is a way to treat a child like a little human being just learning and a way to mark them as bad or as a sinner. And its the latter that messes kids up more than anything. Its that latter that is really abusive with all its attendant disciplines.

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by vogon42

 

I in no way enable others to abuse a child.. but not disciplining your child and teaching them appropriate behavior could be considered abuse as well.

I would encourage any child to tell me if they are being sexually manipulated by anyone.. I would encourage any child to to tell me if others are using fear to make them do things they do not agree with.

It seems like a no win situation for some parents.. If they discipline their child by taking things away to show then consequences.. they are not letting kids be kids.. if their child acts up.. they are bad parents not teaching their child how to behave.

Children need to know what is acceptable.. and a good stern warning from parents is a must at times.

Tell me.. how do you feel when a child throws a huge tantrum in a store lineup because they want something that is hanging by the checkout isle?.. Do you respect the parent who gives in to the tantrum..and gets the child the chocolate bar?.. or do you respect the parent who tells the child.. if you continue with this behavior.. you will still not get the chocolate bar..and you will not be allowed to watch your favorite cartoon when we get home

I see nothing wrong with Jr getting a spanking when needed.

The problem I have is that you can forget a child is a child, and refer to the child as IT.
As well as IT needs to be TAUGHT IT'S level of sin.

Do you not see how messed up that is??

reply to post by LunaKat


No, "discipline" is the correct word, "punishment" would be the incorrect terminology.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by LunaKat

 

No, "discipline" is the correct word, "punishment" would be the incorrect terminology.

What about just teach? What about ignore bad behavior so the child sees that they don't get anything by it? Just put the items back on the shelf and proceed to check out. If they cry you explain why but you don't hand over the candy bar.

Do feel the child is sinning?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by LunaKat

 

No, "discipline" is the correct word, "punishment" would be the incorrect terminology.

OK, just sort of a request to personally help me follow the discussion (please, if you don't mind)

Can you perhaps quote part (not entire...if its long) of the post you are replying to in your post?
Posts pop in here so quickly that one might have to go back 10 or so posts just to see what your response was to.

Thanks!

reply to post by LunaKat


Sounds to me, Luna, that you have a really good natural instinct for appropriate parenting. Good on ya, for seeing past your upbringing, and giving forethought to whether or not to parent.

Too many people don't bother to "study" parenting, or child development, or explore the various methods of socializing a child while still validating that they are worthy and loved unconditionally.

That socialization is so important.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by LunaKat

 

Sounds to me, Luna, that you have a really good natural instinct for appropriate parenting. Good on ya, for seeing past your upbringing, and giving forethought to whether or not to parent.

Too many people don't bother to "study" parenting, or child development, or explore the various methods of socializing a child while still validating that they are worthy and loved unconditionally.

That socialization is so important.

Thank you Wildtimes. There is a pressure in our society to have kids that is huge. I cannot tell you how often when I was younger my husband & I kept getting asked, "so when you having kids?" And we would tell them we weren't gonna and people really never stopped asking. Furthermore people think you hate kids if you don't have them.

I made a conscious choice and my husband did too not to bring children into this world. They aren't experiments..if I screw it up because I only saw poor parenting well then the child suffers. Thats not right thing to do.

And I didn't feel the need to bring kids in just to have kids take care of me when I'm old or to continue the family line. Independent of me, states away, my brother also came to the same conclusion so at least I knew there was one person who understood.

But I'm just blown away by this whole idea in the thread (not you) that kids are like waiting for a chance to sin. Wow. Feel like banging my head on the table. This is what they teach in churches now?

I really hope the day comes when organized religion is history. Its just not a good thing.

reply to post by vogon42

I see nothing wrong with Jr getting a spanking when needed. The problem I have is that you can forget a child is a child, and refer to the child as IT. As well as IT needs to be TAUGHT IT'S level of sin. Do you not see how messed up that is??

good grief vogon42.. when I was typing that out I would have had to use his/her.. and instead I chose its..to cover both genders.

What does it say about you to take a small thing like that and turn it into something it is not? How messed up is that?

If this is what you want to argue about..and throw stones at me for.. go ahead.. but I know what I meant.. and I chose the word instead of him/hers.. I'm truly sorry if it upset you so much.. but why go look for ill meaning when there was none?..and continue to hammer on it like it was the biggest sin against children ?

Despite what some may think or want others to think.. I know Jesus knows my heart..and also knows of my love for children..

I am in peace knowing it is Him who will be with me when I die.. not any of you.. and it is Him who will judge me.. with justice as well as mercy.

Originally posted by gabby2011

....I would have had to use his/her.. and instead I chose its...

..... I'm truly sorry if it upset you so much...

Is it that difficult to type "his/her" rather than "it" - 6 keystrokes.
Yes it offends me, as I said earlier, you are de-humanizing them.

(have you ever heard of hitler? he did this)
Once you successfully de-humanize a (group, cult, segment, country....), it becomes easy for others to justify abuse, torture, murder towards that group because they are not longer human, they are now (several derogatory phrases I can think of).....so its OK.

reply to post by vogon42


If you want to believe I was dehumanizing them.. that is your belief.

It wasn't my intention to do so.. at all..and I think you know that.

Why do you insist on lumping me in with Hitler?.. over a wrongly chosen word..?

Is that what you teach your children to do?.. make a mountain out of molehill..and cram it down a persons throat to make them feel guilty for something they didn't intentionally want to do...but others took it the wrong way?

You need a chill pill.. unless of course your intention is to cause malice.

I'm hoping it isn't.

Originally posted by gabby2011
........
Is that what you teach your children to do?.. make a mountain out of molehill..and cram it down a persons throat to make them feel guilty for something they didn't intentionally want to do...but others took it the wrong way?

You need a chill pill.. unless of course your intention is to cause malice.
.......

edit on 28-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

Oh sure, twist it around, make it about something else.
Thats exactly what an abuser would do......watch your self, your god cant shield you from karma.

reply to post by vogon42

Oh sure, twist it around, make it about something else. Thats exactly what an abuser would do......watch your self, your god cant shield you from karma.

How is that twisting it around?

This whole thread is about child abuse and teaching your children properly.. yet you continue to hammer on this point in 3 posts..when I have said already I used the word incorrectly .

Are you saying its ok for you to compare me to Hitler..and that is fair?

When I speak up about the theme of this thread..and what is fair to teach children.. you call me an abuser?

I think you should be more concerned with your own karma at this point.

Originally posted by gabby2011

Are you saying its ok for you to compare me to Hitler..and that is fair?

edit on 28-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

You are not being compared to hitler, just pointed out that your DE-HUMANIZING of CHILDREN is a similar tactic....and NOT specific to hitler....used by many military groups.

(hitler is just and EXAMPLE that most of the world is familiar with)

However, if you would like me to say, your viewing children as "IT" rather than human puts you in line with many military training doctrines.....YES, that is CORRECT.

reply to post by vogon42

You are not being compared to hitler, just pointed out that your DE-HUMANIZING of CHILDREN is a similar tactic....and NOT specific to hitler....used by many military groups. However, if you would like me to say, your viewing children as "IT" rather than human puts you in line with many military training doctrines.....YES, that is CORRECT.

How sad that you would come to so many conclusions over a choice of a word used incorrectly.... instead of using him/her.

So let me ask you.. what tactics are you using to try and make it look like I intentionally dehumanized children?

Originally posted by gabby2011

....
So let me ask you.. what tactics are you using to try and make it look like I intentionally dehumanized children?

I don't have to use any tactics, you did it YOURSELF.

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by gabby2011

....
So let me ask you.. what tactics are you using to try and make it look like I intentionally dehumanized children?

I don't have to use any tactics, you did it YOURSELF.

Oh.. I did it myself ?.. I chose one word..incorrectly..never meaning to imply that children we non human.. and you run with it. I apologized 3 times for using the word incorrectly and even explained 3 times why I did....but that isn't good enough for you.

Sounds like you have all sorts of "tactics" going on..have fun with that.

Remember what you say about karma.

reply to post by wildtimes

Apologizing, REAL apologizing, is a commitment to practice NOT DOING THE SAME THING AGAIN.

I agree.. and so I have not been using malicious words towards you when I address you..

Can you say the same for your posts directed at me since your apology?