Town Vows to Defend Nativity “Until Hell Freezes Over”

Originally posted by Kryties

So basically you are saying that because Christians are more prevalent than atheists in that town, they have the right to completely ignore the wishes of another group of people.

Wow. I almost wish it worked that way in REAL LIFE.

Well, actually that is the way it works in a democracy. Unless the majoritiy's wishes would break a law, or legally infringe on a right, the majority gets to make the rules - even if it upsets some of those in the minority.

And, as previously noted, putting up a nativity scene (or symbol to celebrate any traditional holiday) on a courthouse lawn does not violate the intended meaning of a separation of church and state.

By the way, you are barely containing your hatred of the atheists, it is seeping into every post you make. Love and Forgiveness my ass.

Actually, I think Atheists...or anyone else...have every right to believe, or not believe, whatever they want. Further, I do not hold what people would consider to be a traditional Christian belief system.

I just happen to like Christmas...a life time of happy memories...and so think this tradition is worth defending.

Originally posted by mobiusmale

I seriously doubt that any Wisconsin tax dollars were used to fund these decorations.

Then who pays for them?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by PrimalRed

 

We know you have an agenda guy, but calm down on the anti-semitism.

edit on 9-12-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Now its antisemitism?

Originally posted by Algernonsmouse

Originally posted by mobiusmale

I seriously doubt that any Wisconsin tax dollars were used to fund these decorations.

Then who pays for them?

The church that bought the nativity scene?
The wisconsin group that paid the postage to send a letter telling texas what to do?

Originally posted by mobiusmale

Originally posted by Algernonsmouse
reply to post by mobiusmale

 

I really do not care one way or the other but I would really like for some of you to explain to me why my taxes should go to your religion in this country of America where we have freedom of religion as you just pointed out. Forcing my to pay for you God does not sound that free to me. Please explain.

I think that practicing Christianity and celebrating traditional American holidays are two separate things.

Last time I checked, Christmas is a declared national holiday...and associated with it are many traditional decorations that towns and cities have put up for generations, going back to the very founding of the Country.

Governments, on all levels, spend a certain amount of money to commemorate all national holidays...think Fourth of July, for example.

Why should Christmas/New Years (maybe the biggest festive time of the year) be any different?

Do I need to ask my question again in order to get you to actually answer it? It is great that you have some feelings about how things are or were.

I asked why my tax dollars should fun anyone's religious celebration. A nativity scene in particular, not Frosty the Snowman. Why did you respond at all if you could not answer that?

Taxing me is theft right?
Spending tax dollars on religious decorations is waste right?

So I am still eager to hear that answer.

Originally posted by mobiusmale

Unless the majoritiy's wishes would break a law, or legally infringe on a right, the majority gets to make the rules

But it IS infringing on the atheists right to not have a nativity scene.

And, as previously noted, putting up a nativity scene (or symbol to celebrate any traditional holiday) on a courthouse lawn does not violate the intended meaning of a separation of church and state.

Couthouse = public does it not? Atheists make up part of that public do they not?

Actually, I think Atheists...or anyone else...have every right to believe, or not believe, whatever they want. Further, I do not hold what people would consider to be a traditional Christian belief system.

The right to believe whatever they want - as long as that view doesn't conflict with the Christian view.

I just happen to like Christmas...a life time of happy memories...and so think this traditional is worth defending.

I celebrate Chrissy too, I whack up a X-Mas tree and salivate over the pressies beneath it. I just don't hold any religious significance to it, nor do I sing carols or set up nativities.

X-Mas, to me, is the season of family and giving - not the religious mumbo-jumbo that nutjobs like to attribute to it.

I get offended, however, when people claim they have the right to do something and others do not.

reply to post by PrimalRed


Oh.. sorry. I just saw where you were making baseless derogatory remarks about Occupy that were not relevant to this thread at all and thought it was fair game to do the same to you.

Live by the sword..

I celebrate Chrissy too, I whack up a X-Mas tree and salivate over the pressies beneath it. I just don't hold any religious significance to it, nor do I sing carols or set up nativities.

X-Mas, to me, is the season of family and giving - not the religious mumbo-jumbo that nutjobs like to attribute to it.

I get offended, however, when people claim they have the right to do something and others do not.

These few sentences just won the topic. Case is closed good night everyone!

Originally posted by PrimalRed
Are we on the same planet? Am i running from anyone? It looks to me like you just want to make up crap to argue with due to your lack of a coherent argument.
So far you have accused me of being christian and "jumping in and running". I fail to see how anyone joins in a thread without "jumping in" and i fail to see how i am "running"

I doubt it because on my planet you already said this and I already responded to it in my last post.

You obviously do, otherwise you would not be so quick to call me christian...

No, you are the one that posted

Originally posted by PrimalRed
Or how about this, have all the christians camp in tents in front of it, crap all over the grass and destroy it. Then claim it is all protected under peaceful protest?
If OWS can do it for 3 months im sure Christians should be allowed to do it until new years.

So if your point was not to just try and fail to bash OWS, what was it if not sticking up for the nativity scene? I cannot help but notice you cannot tell me why my tax dollars should pay for it.

So you are from texas i take it? Im not sure why your tax dollars would go towards it, it is more than likley the nativity scene from last year and the year before put up by one of the local churches. Do you know how much it costs to put up an old nativity scene? Probably not as much money that will be used up through all the court crap about this.

"more than likely" and "probably" are words used by people that have no #ing clue. Don't give me that probably crap. Yes someone has to pay to put it up. Someone pays to maintain it. Baby jesus gets a little ragedy after years of weather, abuse, and theft. This stuff does not appear and put itself up by magic.

Originally posted by mobiusmale

Well, actually that is the way it works in a democracy. Unless the majoritiy's wishes would break a law, or legally infringe on a right, the majority gets to make the rules - even if it upsets some of those in the minority.

This is not a democracy so what is your point?

And, as previously noted, putting up a nativity scene (or symbol to celebrate any traditional holiday) on a courthouse lawn does not violate the intended meaning of a separation of church and state.

You do not understand the "respecting any religion part" then? That is too bad because it is exactly why you are wrong.

Actually, I think Atheists...or anyone else...have every right to believe, or not believe, whatever they want. Further, I do not hold what people would consider to be a traditional Christian belief system.

I just happen to like Christmas...a life time of happy memories...and so think this tradition is worth defending.

edit on 9-12-2011 by mobiusmale because: (no reason given)

I love Christmas.
I do not love how Christians hijacked it and now want to cry if they do not get to use government funds and public space to rub it in my face.

Originally posted by PrimalRed

The church that bought the nativity scene?

Do not respond when you do not know. Why would you even bother? This just proves your opinion is based on guesses. I count 4 so far.

The wisconsin group that paid the postage to send a letter telling texas what to do?

They paid for the nativity scene with a stamp? Money for stamps goes to the post office, not the government. Do you know anything about anything you write about?

These type of organizations are mostly against Christianity. They don't mind other religion being studied, and in fact encourage them for diversity or some other crap.

Originally posted by 547000
These type of organizations are mostly against Christianity. They don't mind other religion being studied, and in fact encourage them for diversity or some other crap.

Who is talking about studying? I think all religions should be studied. Do you see this Atheist group trying to put up a Ramadan scene?

I'm agnostic (agnostic existentialist when I'm trying to get laid ), but I still love and celebrate Christmas. I don't see any problem with it. The city I live in spent a bunch of money on Christmas lights (like a retarded amount) and they not only have Christmas lights, but Christmas lights organized as dinosaurs and whacky stuff. I never thought it was for any particular reason, but maybe they are ahead of the curve. Admittedly I think the dinosaurs are dumb and kinda kill the whole mood, but eh..

Originally posted by Kryties

But it IS infringing on the atheists right to not have a nativity scene.

Atheists do not have a "right to not have a nativity scene". Their right to religious freedom does not include a right to infringe on other people's freedom of religion, or freedom of expression.

Nor can they suddenly declare that a symbol associated with a National Holiday that has been celebrated since the nation's founding can no longer be used.

Couthouse = public does it not? Atheists make up part of that public do they not?

Yes, Courthouse = public. But the display of a nativity scene on a courthouse lawn does not violate the meaning of the need for a separation of church and state...as shown previously in this thread.

The right to believe whatever they want - as long as that view doesn't conflict with the Christian view.

So long as their beliefs do not try to take the fun and tradition out of Christmas.

I get offended, however, when people claim they have the right to do something and others do not.

You see, I never said that other religions shouldn't be able to put up symbols on their holidays...if they pay for them, or if the majority of citizens in that area decide they want to chip in to buy them. I think it would give everyone a better appreciation for the increasingly multicultural nature of the Country.

God will bless those who defend his name...

Oh yes, and the key word is defend...

Not offend, as in they will strike, and we will defend....

For those who take offense at his word....

Well..... you already are aware of what awaits you....

reply to post by Algernonsmouse


now you are just grasping at straws.
In truth my opinion that a church paid for the nativity is no more valid than you believing your taxes go to a texas courthouse that paid for it, on that we are even. But i applaud your effort, after all your ridiculous strawman argument you finally came up with something coherent, keep it up.

They paid for the nativity scene with a stamp? Money for stamps goes to the post office, not the government. Do you know anything about anything you write about?

I was saying that is the only money that we know has changed hands, not that they paid for the nativity scene.

I honestly don't know how I feel about this. On the one hand, it is publicly-funded courthouse. On the other hand, if most of the people paying taxes towards the town courthouse are Christians, then it doesn't seem fair to me that one or two people get to deprive the majority of the people who paid for it their preference.

Either way, I'm not even a Christian, but I still think it just sounds like people looking for something to whine about.

Originally posted by 547000
These type of organizations are mostly against Christianity. They don't mind other religion being studied, and in fact encourage them for diversity or some other crap.

Well given that there are over 38,000 or so religions based off of Christianity, and over 2 billion or so people on the planet practice it... Thats kind of a given isn't it?

Originally posted by freetree64
God will bless those who defend his name...

Oh yes, and the key word is defend...

Not offend, as in they will strike, and we will defend....

For those who take offense at his word....

Well..... you already are aware of what awaits you....

How I read it.


"America will bless those who defend the name...

Oh yes, and the key word is defend...

Not offend, as in they will strike, and we will defend....

For those who take offense at his word....

Well..... you already are aware of what awaits you..."

Cause you know God nor America has never done anything bad or horrible or anything.