Kentucky Church bans interracial couples

Originally posted by Misoir

A. What does politics have to do with it?

Ideology plays a huge part in shaping a person’s worldview in the modern age, shockingly so. Those who are generally associated with the egalitarian/universalist point of view are those who are culturally left-wing. Anyone who was genuinely a Conservative (not Libertarian) would be an advocate for preservation of a specific people, in a specific place, at a specific time.

Ahem,

I beg to differ.

reply to post by beezzer


Ahem,

Libertarianism is a left-wing ideology created out of the Enlightenment. It may not be the same as modern Liberalism and Socialism/Marxism, but it subscribes to a materialist worldview. Sorry beezzer, Libertarians are not Right-wing no matter how hard they try.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by beezzer

 

Ahem,

Libertarianism is a left-wing ideology created out of the Enlightenment. It may not be the same as modern Liberalism and Socialism/Marxism, but it subscribes to a materialist worldview. Sorry beezzer, Libertarians are not Right-wing no matter how hard they try.

Not my point. Conservatives, true conservatives don't care about race, ethnicity, religion, or "categories" like that. True conservatives would like everyone to succeed on their own merit, not on issues that are race, or sex, or sexual preference-based.

Liberals, in my personal experience, have been the ones to focus on my race and not on my ability to perform. Liberals have been the ones that have been narrow-minded. This has helped shape my conservative outlook. It's been liberals that would not look past "what I looked like" and could not focus on my abilities.

Originally posted by Misoir
If you even have to ask that question it means no matter what kind of answer I give it could never be good enough.

I'm asking you to THINK. A lot of us have ideas like "preservation of the races is a "good thing" "... but is there logic behind it? Or is that just the way it's always been, so we accept it as truth? Or is that just your opinion? I'm not asking for an answer that''s "good enough" to convince me. There's NO WAY you're going to convince me that segregation is good. I'm asking for YOUR reasons that preserving the races is good. And so far, you've said that it makes the world unique or great.

HOW do different races make the world great? What makes you think a free society, where people who wanted to mix would and those who didn't wouldn't is NOT great?

You seem to think that people of a certain race all belong to the same culture and that's just so messed up!

As I said before though, you can only understand this point of view like a person understanding a belief in God, you must want to believe in it.

I'm an atheist who understands the desire to believe in God. Imagine that. The limits you put on people, based on your own personal limits, is maybe something for you to examine.

... from my pov you would like everyone to be one and encourage it.

I don't have the opinion that everyone should encourage interracial relationships. That's ridiculous. MY position is about FREE CHOICE. Freedom. Do you understand the concept?

If every child was mixed they would all be of the same race thus unique would be gone in that sense.

And if everyone was gay, the population would die out. Yeah, that's logic for you. Make a suggestion that people should be FREE to marry who they want and have kids if they want, and this is the kind of logic that comes up. :shk:

As I've said many times, people don't really want to live in a free society, and you are no exception.

. I would prefer that each race stay with its own people.

What else can be said? You've said it all right there.

Originally posted by beezzer

Not my point. Conservatives, true conservatives don't care about race, ethnicity, religion, or "categories" like that. True conservatives would like everyone to succeed on their own merit, not on issues that are race, or sex, or sexual preference-based.

You cannot make up definitions and apply it to whatever you want as if that makes it real. Everything you described is a bourgeois Classical Liberal. It is in absolutely no way shape or form a version of Conservatism.

Liberals, in my personal experience, have been the ones to focus on my race and not on my ability to perform. Liberals have been the ones that have been narrow-minded. This has helped shape my conservative outlook. It's been liberals that would not look past "what I looked like" and could not focus on my abilities.

Meritocracy was a 19th century idea proposed by reformist Liberals (i.e. Classical Liberals), Conservatism was never about basing anything on merit. How has our politics degenerated so far that people cannot even tell the difference between Conservatism and Classical Liberalism?

This should help clear it up: Debating Conservatism: An Old Mistake in The New Inquiry. You are correct however in noting that Conservatives never got involved in the issue of race but Conservatives, true Conservatives, were never faced with the idea of interracial marriage and mass third world immigration on the scale that we are seeing.

reply to post by Misoir
Well then call me a classical liberal.

(I bet there are scores of people on ATS bookmarking my quote )

If we were a race of blind people, I'm sure there would be people being divisive based on the timbre of ones voice.
Merit, the ability to serve, lead, grow, learn, should be factors in determining a persons "worth".

Nothing more.

I'm with you, beez. You liberal! Welcome to the dark side.

I don't buy that this is a political issue, except that, as a generalization, most people who have an issue with race tend toward the right and most people who want equality tend toward the left.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm with you, beez. You liberal!

Welcome to the dark side.

I don't buy that this is a political issue, except that, as a generalization, most people who have an issue with race tend toward the right and most people who want equality tend toward the left.

edit on 12/1/2011 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)

Not so fast my liberal commrade!

When I've presented my more conservative values, you should see the jaws drop in some liberals that automatically assumed that because of my melanin content, I would believe a certain way.

BTW, does this tye-dye make my butt look big?

reply to post by beezzer


"[Conservatism] describes a political philosophy emphasizing the need for the principles of natural law and transcendent moral order, tradition, hierarchy and organic unity, agrarianism, classicism and high culture, and the intersecting spheres of loyalty."

Conservatives are not naturally Capitalists, although some can be support most aspects of Capitalism, are generally opposed to meritocracy and prefer aristocracy, are deeply religious, patriotic, and elitist. You, my friend, are not a Conservative. You are a Classical Liberal:

"Classical liberalism is the philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government, constitutionalism, rule of law, due process, and liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets."

Sorry for being a bit off-topic.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by beezzer

 

"[Conservatism] describes a political philosophy emphasizing the need for the principles of natural law and transcendent moral order, tradition, hierarchy and organic unity, agrarianism, classicism and high culture, and the intersecting spheres of loyalty."

Conservatives are not naturally Capitalists, although some can be support most aspects of Capitalism, are generally opposed to meritocracy and prefer aristocracy, are deeply religious, patriotic, and elitist. You, my friend, are not a Conservative. You are a Classical Liberal:

"Classical liberalism is the philosophy committed to the ideal of limited government, constitutionalism, rule of law, due process, and liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets."

Sorry for being a bit off-topic.

Then sir, I'll wear that mantle proudly.

I had a great facebook debate about this and I'll paste up some of my points:

Racism is so 20th century. And though I disagree wholeheartedly with the message they are putting out with this, I think its within their right as a church to decide who they don't want going there. You can't take away someone's freedom to practice their religion as they want to just because you disagree. The media fuels a lot of this tension and though the church is undoubtedly wrong and deserve all the negative attention they shouldn't be forced to do something they don't want to. The best you can hope for is they realize they are in the wrong on their own.

My opponent replied with "segregation is illegal" so I replied:

Well let's look at it the other way around, there are definitely several all-black christian organizations among other organizations 'segregated' in this country. Nobody's being forced to attend that church.


He replies : There's a difference between having a purpose for a specific group of people and offering a service that is open to all but a select few.

So I say :

I really don't see the difference, perhaps this church believes they are serving a purpose for a specific group of people as well - their congregation. You choose your church, not the state, if you don't want to be affiliated with that kind of organization then don't! Go somewhere with less narrow minded views. I try to keep the hope that this country will just grow out of the racism. Let the old people keep their racist church, I just won't go. Everyone's ready to go in this church with their interracial significant other, where are all the gay couples ready to march to topeka for a Westboro sunday service?


He mentions he protested in vegas, so I threw out


I'm not talking about protesting I'm talking about joining the church, and nobody in their right mind wants to join because of their views. It should be the same for this church in my opinion we can protest it but is it going to stop what they believe? Only they as individuals can change their minds.


I'm not a racist, just a libertarian.

Originally posted by beezzer
When I've presented my more conservative values, you should see the jaws drop in some liberals that automatically assumed that because of my melanin content, I would believe a certain way.

I'm right there with you. When I present some of my more conservative values, people sometimes freak. They are uncomfortable that I don't fit neatly into the liberal OR conservative box. My husband (the one who knows me best) calls me a true conservative.

BTW, does this tye-dye make my butt look big?

No. But the flowers in your hair is a bit much, even for me.

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by kerazeesicko

 

When two people from two different races have a child that child belongs to neither race, it is interracial thus a mix of two which destroys both. And yes the White race is not only dying off but being encouraged by the pseudo anti-racists, this encouragement of race mixing and mass immigration is only occurring in one part of the world for a reason. No one is advocating this sort of race mixing and multiculturalism in Japan, Saudi Arabia, or the Congo, and I wonder why that is…

The people who are foolish enough to sacrifice their own racial/ethnic heritage should be ashamed of themselves, but they won’t be. They will be encouraged to do that to fulfill an ideology espoused by the Cultural Marxists. Is that conspiracy theory nutjob talk? No, it is well documented and there for you to view if you so choose. This was a planned strategy, plain and simple. People walked right into it.

Yes I agree with you that on a whole there is no ‘white culture’ BUT since many White’s live outside of their ethnic homelands across the world there is little opportunity for us to unite ethnically so we must choose the next best thing; race.

Sad thing is that the poor ignorant believes what he says...
Not sure if pity or disgust...Nothing nice tho.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by PrimalRed
Here is the thing, they are their own church with their own members and their own rules. If you do not like it don't go to that church that is all there is too it.

I don't like it, and yes, I don't intend to go to their church. Likewise though, I do have my opinions, and I will voice them out. We all have rights in this country, this church, as a private religious institution, can reject certain kinds of people, and I can practice my constitutional rights in speaking out and voice my disgust.

I'm sure you can respect my rights, as you so readily declared your respect theirs.

Hey genius, who is not respecting you rights? Did i tell you to shut up or force you to stop talking? No, i didn't think so. Im not a cop this is not a OWS protest, no need to start rambling about your rights when they are not being threatened.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


No offense to the people of Pike County KY but one always needs to assess the source of any and all information.

According to Wikipedia Pike county is a "Dry" county, or a "Moist" county in that there exist two town/locals in the entire country that sell alcohol.

So if the local inhabitants haven't progressed beyond the prohibition era as it pertains to the evils of alcohol then the nature of this article doesn't at all surprise me.

Funny that one poster here has to seque and bring up IQ into the discussion....

But For Historical sake, The US military tried to prove this racial inferiority in WWII by proving the Tuskegee Airmen to be intellectually incapable of piloting combat aircraft "Under the Duress of Combat" due to their race.

Fortunately for all of us, these inferior "Negroes" could pilot their P-51 Mustang aircraft and piloted them very well in escorting our B-17 bombers deep into the industrial center of Germany helping us all defeat Nazism and their racial hatred....today.

Remember that at one time in History the world was also considered to be flat as well ...
And if you disagreed you were considered a heretic and were subsequently burned at the stake !!

Thank god for Science and Education.....for the Truth shall set you Free.

Peace

en.wikipedia.org...

I grew up in a household full of racialists who drilled into me at an early age that my white heritage was precious and to preserve its purity was tantamount to religiosity.

You can barely imagine the pain and shame I brought upon the family by marrying a Hispanic woman

The idea of classifying each race into unalterable divisions encourages stagnation of the genetic pool, reduces desire for outside ideas, and prevents the human race from fulfilling it's evolutionary destiny. The kind of preservationist tendencies I see from some of the people here are akin to saying "I will only marry my cousin, because my family is better than all other families." Eventually you will have a wonderfully homogenized family, devoid of all the nasty things like functioning brains, non harelips, and the right number of chromosomes.

I enjoy William Buckley (almost as much as Carl Sagan), he was an intelligent and verbally astute conservative-and I will throw this quote of his out there:

"Conservatives pride themselves on resisting change, which is as it should be. But intelligent deference to tradition and stability can evolve into intellectual sloth and moral fanaticism, as when conservatives simply decline to look up from dogma because the effort to raise their heads and reconsider is too great."

Originally posted by PrimalRed
Hey genius, who is not respecting you rights? Did i tell you to shut up or force you to stop talking?

Don't like the topic of this thread? Don't like the criticism of this church? Then you have the right not to participate in discussion. This couple can find another church to go to, and you can find another thread. Simple.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
This kind of mentality is still around, especially in the South.

This was in a small, 'Free Will Baptist' church in the south.
Considering where this is ... I'm not surprised.

I got stuck living in Alabama for nine years. If you weren't the right color; if you didn't go to the right church; if you didn't speak with the correct southern drawwwwwwwl, then you were discriminated against and also targeted by the local fundamentalist churches for 'conversion'. (endless knocks on the door, pamphlets shoved in your face, etc etc). The worst perps of this in our town were those from the Baptist and Church of Christ churches. It was like they were dueling in town, seeing who could be the most bigoted and ignorant.

First words out of anyones mouth down there upon meeting you .... I swear this is true ... would be 'so what church do you go to?" Eventually we got our own pamphlets and whenever the conversion squad would come knocking on our door we'd answer it with a basket full of our own tracts ... any tracts we could find that were opposite of what they were pushing. We turned it into great 'in your face' fun. ha ha

Thankfully we now live outside Philly. Haven't had a single person ask what church I go to or make a funny face because my daughter is adopted and darker than they are. There are racist events reported in the paper, but strangely enough it's usually so called 'reverse racism'.

I don't believe in 'reverse racism' Flyersfan. Racism is racism to me, period. It is becoming common in african american communities as well, hispanic communities tend to be fairly racialist, especially to african americans. Asian racism is just as bad, I've come across all of them

But yes, racism still is deep in the south, more so than other parts in the US, and it comes in many forms. Thanks for sharing your experiences.

I personally think that church in Kentucky is wrong. Every person on earth has a soul and spirit....so why can't they attend the church they want to and marry who they want to.

However...I am glad that church revealed itself and its attitudes...now many of us know what group to avoid.

In the past when I was dating....I would always look at the mans character...and his personal habits. I have dated some really good men. Some were black, native american, french, english, italian, asian, egyptian...and my point is they were all gentlemen and really quality human beings.

reply to post by Misoir


I quit posting on this lame ass site a long time ago because of the level of high mindedness and superiority complexes people here have. Most of these people honor us little pathetic turds with their time and glory from their high ivory towers, having said that
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH MISIOR
I just signed on to support ya and to say its nice to see someone like myself, keep up the good work.
now I will go away again... thumbs up