Was The Titanic Destroyed By A German Submarine?

Originally posted by snoopyuk
reply to post by apacheman

 

and yours is one of the best replies i have seen this year .

i cant believe the OP cant see the facts .. the scientific facts !!....pointed out by members who know there stuff , some of them are ww1 and ww2 geeks , ( and i am sure they wont mind me saying so

)

snoopyuk

edit on 26-11-2011 by snoopyuk because: sp

Heres some more scientific facts...There were 8 different U-Boats built and launched by Germany before 1912 that all had ranges of 3,356 miles,the U-9 through the U-16 and each was around 200ft long and if the Germans felt they needed to,adding on an extra fuel tank or fitting a submarine with a bigger fuel tank,or just carrying a few extra drums of fuel,for a "special mission" would have been easy enough for them to do...

"When we sink the Titanic way out here,no one will think we did it"...Just saying its very possible...

Germany was "not" at war with Russia in 1941,but that didnt stop Germany from invading and ultimately murdering upwards of 30,000,000 people...

The Submariners,lured by the offer of large amounts of cash,would have had no problem or technical difficulty torpedoing and sinking the Titanic,in order to hopefully kill the three super rich men,which they did,who were coaxed on-board and who opposed the installation of the Federal Reserve System and had the power to stop it and soon after their deaths,the opposition faded away and the Federal Reserve System was installed and that system is owned and operated behind the scenes by the illumanti who financed Germany,Austria,Russia, England,Italy and the USA during WW-1,enabling the illumanti and many industrialists to become very wealthy and powerful,maneuvering the nations closer towards their New World Order...

We know that there was an iceberg that night from the crew testimony. We know that the iceberg passed on the side of the ship that suffered the damage from the crew testimonies. If a German torpedo was fired at the titanic at this crucial time then it would have to miss the berg to hit the ship.

Ever hear of the term "tip of the iceberg?"

That is because there's more underneath the water than appearing above the surface.

The rich weren't lured on board as can be researched easily like the snippets below.



While traveling Madeleine became pregnant, and wanting the child born in the U.S., the Astors boarded the ocean liner Titanic on her maiden voyage to New York; they embarked in Cherbourg, France in first class and were in fact the wealthiest passengers aboard. Accommodating the Astors was John Astor's valet, Victor Robbins; Madeleine's maid, Rosalie Bidois; and her nurse, Caroline Louise Endres. They also took their pet Airedale, Kitty. The Astors were deeply fond of their dog and had come close to losing her on a previous trip when she went missing in Egypt. Kitty did not survive the sinking.[8]

source: en.wikipedia.org...

Guggenheim boarded the RMS Titanic and was accompanied by his mistress, a French singer named Madame Léontine Aubart (1887-1964)

source: en.wikipedia.org...

Hmmm, its getting close to a hundred years since your NWO fantasy and its still the same old world.

Federal reserve funded allies and their opponents? not a sound business decision. sure you will win some but you will also lose a lot playing both sides of the coin.

Why don't we toss in OWS in there also since every conspiracy entity is mentioned and the boy scouts too, I always had a suspicion about them and the shorts they wore in those khaki colors.

There's no records of a submarine attack but yet you state there was no problem with German submariners killing in peacetime for large sum of money, link to source please.

Where did you get these German naval facts and personal testimonies?

Where are the behind the scenes documents of the so called Illuminati you state as fact?

No technical difficulties in targeting a speeding ship with a weapon in its infancy that had to be ranged and estimated without computers or electronics was a piece of cake back then I'm sure. links to claims of German submariners bragging of their underwater torpedo skills in pre WWI please.

Non of it adds up and I wish they still taught history in schools instead of using youtube as a textbook.

Originally posted by SonoftheSun

Originally posted by foxhoundone
A rare picture of the alleged iceberg that shattered the Titanic's rivets (from Scottish ore mines).
Not that big to pose a worry..

Interesting, isn't it?

In a conspiracy world it isn't easy to swim against mainstream waters. I do not know if Germans sank the Titanic. I do not know if an iceberg sank the Titanic either.

Is there really a conspiracy? Why would anyone want to sink the biggest ship of its time?

It is almost a hundred years ago and some things have never changed. Money. Power. Greed.

Allright, I supplied a shady source - in my last reply - some might say...but it still weighs in a factor of gash versus holes theory.

Here is a more serious link. It has been mentioned already in this thread that the Federal Reserve was in its creation when the ship sank.

Why would anyone who wanted to instigate a Federal Reserve want to sink the Unsinkable?

One of many Titanic conspiracies floating around, many believe that the sinking of the famous vessel was well planned, well executed, and orchestrated shape the world as we know it today. This is the Federal Reserve Titanic conspiracy.

Wait a minute now....where's the connection?

Here’s how the Federal Reserve and the Titanic are connected. In 1910, seven men met on Jekyll island just off the coast of Georgia to plan the Federal Reserve Bank. Nelson Aldrich and Frank Vanderclip represented the Rockefeller (Illuminati) financial empire. Henry Davidson, Charles Norton and Benjamin Strong represented J.P. Morgan (Illuminati). Paul Warburg (Illuminati) represented the Rothschilds (Illuminati) Banking dynasty of Europe. The Rothschilds were the banking agents for the Jesuits and hold `the key to the wealth of the Roman Catholic Church.’

Let's see...the Rockefellers...the Morgans...the Rothchilds...sounds like 2011, not 1910 now does it??

Was there anyone on that ship that the Elite wanted out? You bet.

Three of the richest and most important of these were Benjamin Guggenheim, Isador Strauss, the head of Macy’s Department Stores, and John Jacob Astor, probably the wealthiest man in the world.

Here starts a good conspiracy...

These three men were coaxed and encouraged to board the floating palace. They had to be destroyed because the Jesuits knew they would use their wealth and influence to oppose a Federal Reserve Bank as well as the various wars that were being planned.

Oh...it gets better...

It can also be mentioned that J.P. Morgan, the individual contracted to build the Titanic was scheduled to be on the maiden voyage, but canceled.

Coincidences right? Sure they are. Like coincidences pertaining to 9/11, coincidences pertaining to JFK's death, coincidences pertaining to most conspiracies that do swim waters against the mainstream flow...

One thing remains and is not a coincidence.

All three men, whom were opposed to the Federal Reserve, died during the sinking of the Titanic.

So there might be a conspiracy after all...perhaps...but what does Germany have to do with any of this?

The Federal Reserve is installed as part of the Federal Reserve act in December of 1913, roughly a year and eight months after the Titanic tragedy, and World War I less than a year later.

Now get this.

Theorists believe that the Federal Reserve and the Jesuits were responsible for funding the United States, Germany, and Russia in the war.

Emphasis is mine. How convenient.

Oh, the source isn't as "shady" as the other one I linked earlier.

Titanic Universe - The Titanic - RMS Titanic Ship Facts & Information

Do I claim that Germany sank the Titanic? No. Do I claim that the Elite sank the Titanic? No.

But I wouldn't be so fast to jump on the iceberg theory either...

ETA/Edit to add: Now if anyone pulled that off...what would the public need to be told? That the Titanic hit an iceberg and sank...or...a that a torpedo sank the Titanic? Food for thought...

Just info. Make of it what you wish. Or as some have said...Move along...nothing to see here...

I sometimes have to remember that ATS is a conspiracy website...

edit on 25-11-2011 by SonoftheSun because: grammar

edit on 25-11-2011 by SonoftheSun because: added ETA

edit on 25-11-2011 by SonoftheSun because: grammar part deux

The undeniable,as far as i'm concerned,evidence is in the awesome and fact filled reply above by SonoftheSun and it is well worth reiterating here ^^^

blocula, Titanic was a ship steaming at full speed at night, heading into an ice flow drifting down on the labrador current. She was a big ship and for her size had a very small rudder. If a German U-boat at that time could get out that far which i doubt, it would be like chasing a high powered speedboat with an inflatable dhingy and one oar.

By the time your U-boat finally got to her last reported position she would already be lying at the bottom of the atlantic. Your U-boat however, would have been of great help in picking up survivors.

Originally posted by FLaKK
blocula, Titanic was a ship steaming at full speed at night, heading into an ice flow drifting down on the labrador current. She was a big ship and for her size had a very small rudder. If a German U-boat at that time could get out that far which i doubt, it would be like chasing a high powered speedboat with an inflatable dhingy and one oar.

By the time your U-boat finally got to her last reported position she would already be lying at the bottom of the atlantic. Your U-boat however, would have been of great help in picking up survivors.

From England to NY City is around 3,321 miles and the Titanic sank about 2 thirds of the way to its destination,NY City.So the Titanic sank about 2,214 miles out to sea and...

There were 8 different U-Boats built and launched by Germany before 1912 that all had ranges of 3,356 miles,the U-9 through the U-16 and each was around 200ft long and if the Germans felt they needed to,adding on an extra fuel tank or fitting a selected submarine with a larger one,or just carrying a few extra drums of fuel,for a "special mission" would have been easy enough for them to have done...

So it is entirely within the realm of possibility and technical capability for a German Submarine to have sank the Titanic...

The Titanics maiden voyage,and discussion about its maiden voyage before the ship even launched was well known,was Big News and most everyone knew about it.The Titanics sailing route and date of departure was no secret and a German Submarine could have very easily been waiting somewhere along that route in anticipation of its inevitable arrival and passing through the area wherever a Submarine decided to be waiting for it...

"When we sink the Titanic "way out here",no one will think "we" did it"...Thats what i feel and what i believe happened...

reply to post by blocula


The transatlantic run was one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world at that time and covered a very broad area of ocean. Nobody could ever predict the exact position of a vessel on this route at any given time. There were far too many factors which led to captains giving orders to slightly alter course to avoid other ships in the area, field ice, etc, sorry but your u-boat would be skulking around blind in wide open sea with a multitude of distant west bound targets to follow on the horizon.

Originally posted by FLaKK
reply to post by blocula

 

The transatlantic run was one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world at that time and covered a very broad area of ocean. Nobody could ever predict the exact position of a vessel on this route at any given time. There were far too many factors which led to captains giving orders to slightly alter course to avoid other ships in the area, field ice, etc, sorry but your u-boat would be skulking around blind in wide open sea with a multitude of distant west bound targets to follow on the horizon.

German U-Boats,Submarines,were not stationary objects and they were not skulking around and were not operating blindly either,their crews were made up of specially selected and trained men who had met certain specific physical and psychological requirements who all knew what they were doing inside and out,ever see the movie "Das Boot" ? and they had conning towers,periscopes,binoculars,oceanic charts and whatever else to aide and guide them.The Titanics route and departure was no secret and was Big News and many many people were well aware of when the ship was leaving,where the ship was going and what route it would take to get their...

The technical capabilities and inventions available to Armies and Navies in 1912 were not as crude as a lot of people would like to believe they were...

Sunday, April 14, 11:40pm..... Captain Smith rushed onto the bridge asking, 'what have we struck?'
Murdock replies 'An iceberg sir'. Far below the ship in Boiler room 6 leading stoker and survivor Fredrick Barrett reports a sudden rush of water pouring in from along the side of the ship. Survivor fourth officer Joseph Boxhall on watch at the time of the disaster reported an unusual scraping noise along the starboard side with chunks of ice scattered on the well deck. Survivior and passenger Henry Harper reported being sat up in bed and seeing the iceberg passing his porthole window. pieces crumbling off...

If i carry on with the independent witness testimonies then i'm going to be here all night. Anyway it's a popular misconception about a 'gash' in the Titanic's hull. As the ice exerted pressure on the hull plates as it scraped along the side of the ship, it caused the plates to buckle and the rivets to pop rupturing 6 of her watertight compartments along the ships length opening them up to the sea.

Anyway back to your u-boat theory, your waiting for RMS Titanic to pass by doing 24 knots in a busy shipping lane at the dead of night, in the middle of floating sea ice and drift ice, with no moon to cast a silhouette. In 1912 U-boats do attack shipping at night don't they? lets ask an experienced U boat commander like Walther Shwieger who sank the Lusitania with a lucky shot shall we, nope apparently it's better during the day when you can see your target clearly.

reply to post by blocula


The U-boats wouldn't be coming from England, but rather from Germany, adding a few hundred miles to the journey. Adding fuel tanks to increase the range isn't such an easy task as you might think, nor would it be feasible to simply add barrels of kerosene either within or without the sub. Barrel storage would create ventilation problems and the risk of fire would be huge.

Have you ever toured an actual U-boat? I've had the opportunity to tour the U-505, a much larger, roomier, and more advanced boat than anything available in 1912, and there is zero space for additional fuel storage in any form whatsoever. Modifying a boat to provide extra fuel bunkers would be the work of weeks or months in a navy yard, and would not have gone unnoticed or unremarked upon.

Give it up: your theory makes zero sense and is completely unsupported by any shred of fact.

Decades later, with the help of radar, long range communications, highly evolved tactics learned from WWI experience, and an efficient intelligence network, it was difficult for U-boats to locate and attack convoys of multiple ships; finding one particular ship at night in the prior period is just nearly impossible.

You've never been to sea, I take it?

When I was a shrimper in the Gulf of Mexico, we occasionally had to meet another vessel on the high seas. Finding each other in broad daylight, with radar, and in constant communication with each other, was still a chore, necessitating much quartering before we actually sighted each other. The ocean is vast, and ships tiny, no matter their size. locating one particular ship at night at the extreme end on one's range is so not easy as to be impossible given the tech and skills of that era. Remember: this was the early dawn of the submarine age, no matter how select the crews were, they were still very inexperienced with their boats.

After over 2 hours of digging through the internet,i have come across the German Submarine most likely to have sank the Titanic.If a German Submarine sank that ship,this is the one that did it...

The U-17 was launched in April -1912 and had a range of 6,700 nautical miles and carried 6-torpedos...

The Titanic sank in April-1912...

From England to NY,City is around 3,321 miles and the Titanic sank about 2 thirds of the way to its destination, NY City.So the Titanic sank about 2,214 miles out to sea from its point of departure and about 2,500 miles from north western Germany...

Easily within the reach and range of the U-17,a round trip from Germany to the Titanic and back would have been around 5,000 miles...

The Titanics maiden voyage,and discussion about its maiden voyage before the ship even launched was well known,was Big News and most everyone knew about it.The Titanics sailing route and date of departure was no secret and a German Submarine could have very easily been waiting somewhere along that route in anticipation of its inevitable arrival and passing through the area wherever a Submarine decided to be waiting for it...

"When we sink the Titanic "way out here",no one will think "we" did it"...Thats what i feel and what i believe happened...

German Submarine crews were made up of specially selected and trained men who had met certain specific physical and psychological requirements who all knew what they were doing and how to do it inside and out...

The Submariners,lured by the offer of large amounts of cash,would have had no problem or technical difficulty torpedoing and sinking the Titanic,in order to hopefully kill the three super rich men,which they did,who were coaxed on-board and who opposed the installation of the Federal Reserve System and had the power to stop it and soon after their deaths,the opposition faded away and the Federal Reserve System was installed and that system is owned and operated behind the scenes by the illumanti who financed Germany,Austria,Russia, England,Italy and the USA during WW-1,enabling the illumanti and many industrialists to become very wealthy and powerful,maneuvering the nations closer towards their New World Order...

And everything mentioned above explains the ways and means and reasons for Germany to have sank the Titanic in 1912...

One of the biggest conspiracies of the 20th Century has been exposed...

reply to post by blocula


u17 - launched april 16th 1012 , titanic sunk april 14th 1912 - another of your fantasises dashed

U-17 didn't even receive a commission until Nov 3rd 1912. lol

Ok blocula your fantasy U-boat is heading out to sea to intercept the Titanic. A great deal of effort has taken place to ensure this mission is going to be a success. Why are you going to attack this unarmed ship on a moonless night amongst drift ice, when infact broad daylight would be better so you can see your target. Don't say so it wouldn't be seen, because submarine warfare was almost unheard of back in 1912. I don't think even Capt Smith or any of his senior officers would have recognised a periscope in the unlikely event they even saw one lol.

So you've gone all this way out to sea and gone to all this trouble to kill 3 passengers. It had taken almost an hour after the collision with the iceberg for Titanic to develop a noticable list. Why didn't your U-boat finish her off if you had 6 torpedo's? Could you be sure that these passengers you were after killing wouldn't find their way into a lifeboat and survive?. They were first class important people and as such would be the first onto the boat deck, unlike the poor steerage classes kept hemmed in down below. History has shown with other disasters at sea, that the women and children first rule doesn't always get adhered to when filling up the lifeboats, because of the panic that ensues when ships sink.

Your ruthless crew who have already flouted the cruiser rules at sea by attacking an unarmed passenger liner would have had no second thoughts about finishing her off quickly, ensuring a rapid sinking with insufficient time to launch any lifeboats and sealing the fate of your target passengers.

The documented Titanic disaster as we understand it, parden the pun, is 'watertight'. There is no way in whatsoever for a u-boat conspiracy, however hard you try.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by blocula

 

u17 - launched april 16th 1012 , titanic sunk april 14th 1912 - another of your fantasises dashed

And...Your point is...What?...Theres no possibility that it was launched a week or two earlier?...Come on,of course it could have been,especially for a top secret mission,they wouldnt have advertised its launching,and how many people would have had to have known it was sent out to sea a week or two earlier,like 50 people at most and i'm sure the U-17 was capable by then...Does uncle sam let everyone know what they are doing? How long was the U.S.A.F. flying around the B-1 bomber before "the public was told about it"...a long time...

reply to post by blocula


my point ?

refuting your fantasies with facts - despite the fact you continually revise it and move the goal posts

now you have revealed that you have no idea what what the difference between launch date and commission date is - launch date gives you a virtually bare hull , commissioning date gives you an operational vessel - that has a trained crew , fully provisioned and having passed sea trails with all issues resolved

as an example lets review titanic :

launch date - 31 may 1911

here is a picture of her at launch

see the unfinished state ???????


here she is undergoing sea trials ( april 2nd 1912 )

are you going to give up your u17 fantasy - or simply move the goalposts again ?

reply to post by blocula


U 17

blocula look at the launch date u really got to chose another U Boat..lol or why not a UFO sinking the Titanic?

I do think of Madeleine Albright. The US had a powerful military. Therefore, she wanted to use it. We had to cap someone, because we had a shiny new gun. Didn't really matter who we shot, as long as we killed somebody.
en.wikipedia.org...
"What’s the point of you saving this superb military for, Colin, if we can't use it?

This is the same woman, when the British and French informed the US they would no longer honor sanctions against Iraq because it had resulted in the starvation deaths of a million Iraqi children, "It was worth it". Her response to Leslie Stahl, national tv.

Also thinking of Truman dropping the A bomb on Japan, when his top generals, including Eisenhower and MacArthur, argued against it. We had a shiny new bomb, had to try it out on someone.

So with tensions running deep in Europe, including war in the Balkans, if the Germans had an exciting new technology which they felt could neutralize the superior British Navy, would they try it out?

They just might, if they had an Albright or Truman in the chain of command.
I still do not think it likely, but it is possible. The technology appears to have been there.

reply to post by Matt1951
The governments of the world will always make sure that there are groups of people conveniently demonized who will become the cannon fodder of every new military invention.They dont invent new weapons of war to help everyone build better homes or feed our children,they invent new weapons of war to murder people and dominate nations...

Emperor of Germany...1890 -1918...Friedrich Wilhelm - II ..."Nothing Wilhelm II did in the international arena was of more influence than his decision to pursue a policy of massive naval construction. A powerful navy was Wilhelm's pet project" en.wikipedia.org...

Nice to see that this thread is still ongoing !!

I have read some of the new replies and I will have to say that it is almost undeniable that the Titanic did hit an iceberg.

But was that the fatal blow? That is the real question coming out of this thread. the Titanic does show undeniable facts that the hull was damaged from hitting an iceberg. But what about the holes??

I think the Germans had the technology, the perfect timing for a try out and a motive to do so.

Some have said that sinking the boat just to get three people out is farfetched. I don't think so. Didn't we see more than three thousand people die for the wrong reasons on 9/11? Didn't we see thousands of our best young men and women die in Irak for the wrong reasons? The Elite to be would have remorse for ordering the killing of over fifteen hundred people to get three out? Really??

I highly doubt it. They established themselves as untouchables after the Federal Reserve. Untouchable financially, above the law and first and foremost they have power over the world, in every single way.

Would it have been worth it for them?

Our present state of affairs seems to indicate that Yes, with a capital Y.

But we will never really find out...will we?

reply to post by SonoftheSun


Maybe the Titanic was struck by a torpedo first "the explosions heard" then lost steering and started taking on water,both in rapid succession caused the ship to then veer off against an iceberg creating "the groaning sounds" which sealed the ships fate?...just a thought,anythings possible...


All of the wealthy and powerful men that the jesuits wanted to get rid of were invited ans coaxed onboard the Titanic..Hmmmm?...I seriously doubt that was a coincidence...and they were all opposed to the Ferderal Reserve System and had the financial power to stop it,which was shortly there after put into place after their deaths...Coincidence again?...I Dont Think So...

Originally posted by Matt1951
So with tensions running deep in Europe, including war in the Balkans, if the Germans had an exciting new technology which they felt could neutralize the superior British Navy, would they try it out?

Firstly, the Germans were always playing catch-up with the British and French in terms of subs, let alone any other Naval power, so their subs would unlikely be risked on a fools errand which would provoke a War when the German Navy was in no fit state to challenge the British or French Navies (it never was but they wished to)..

Secondly, if they really wanted to prove they had a new toy (that everyone else on the block got years ago) and challenge the Royal Navy (despite being numerically weaker and outclassed), why would they seek to prove their new found Naval ascendancy by attacking a cruise liner and not a Dreadnought or Cruiser?

It's like a bloke who wants to be as big as the other blokes in his gym, who workes out for months and builds himself and is almost there, only to then go out and prove his new found strength and masculinity by kicking a small child in the face. All that's going to do is make everything think your a twat (when previously everyone thought of you as an honest gent) and all the bigger blokes in your Gym will come steaming out and kick your face in.

What would be the point?