Was The Titanic Destroyed By A German Submarine?

blocula what about the SS Californian, a vessel which had stopped because of the ice, and was not that far away from the Titanic. Observers on the Californian saw the stricken liner sending up rocket flares but the ship never went to her assistance...hm that's an interesting one.

reply to post by stumason
You said..."Back in ww-1 they had only just started to latch on the ideas of secrets weapons and state secrets"...

That is simply not at all true,1912 was not so long ago and here is a Wikipedia qoute...

"The Reichstag was persuaded to agree to the program and passed a Novelle amending the navy bills and allocating 940 million GM for a dreadnought program and the necessary infrastructure.Two dreadnoughts and one battlecruiser were to be built each year.Construction of four Nassau class battleships began in 1907 with the greatest possible secrecy...Wikipedia quote...

"German expenditure on ships was steadily rising. In 1907, 290 million GM was spent on the fleet, rising to 347 million GM or 24% of the national budget in 1908, with a predicted budget deficit of 500 million GM. By the outbreak of World War I, one billion GM had been added to Germany's national debt because of naval expenditures"...Wikipedia qoute...

Notice the term..."greatest possible secrecy" ?...Notice the date 1907 ?...

reply to post by FLaKK


The SS Californian. Lots of speculations regarding this one. Some aboard the vessel (including the Captain) did see white lights in the sky - white flares, not red for a distress call - and yet tried to signal morse code lighting towards the Titanic without success. The SS Californian had stopped for the night, being surrounded by ice.

Strangely enough, the SS Californian also happened to be owned by....J.P. Morgan...

So hm that's an interesting one indeed.

The U-17,the submarine i think was responsible for sinking the Titanic,during WW-1,sank the first British merchant vessel of the war and also sank another nine ships and captured one ship,surviving the war without casualty...

I don't know, don't trust Wiki on everything anymore so I researched a U-Boat site. This is a snippet of their facts on U-17 with a map of its operational area.

Snippet:

WWI U-boats
U 17

Type

U 17
Shipyard Kaiserliche Werft, Danzig (Werk 11)
Ordered 6 May 1910 Laid down 1 Oct 1910
Launched 16 Apr 1912 Commissioned 3 Nov 1912
Commanders
1 Aug 1914 - 7 Mar 1915 Johannes Feldkirchner
2 Mar 1915 - 9 Jan 1916 Hans Walther
Career 4 patrols
start date unknown - 10 Jan 1916 Baltic Flotilla
1 Aug 1914 - end date unknown II Flotilla
10 Jan 1916 - 11 Nov 1918 training Flotilla
Successes 11 ships sunk for a total of 15,122 tons.
2 ships taken as prize for a total of 4,956 tons.
Fate 27 Jan 1919 - Stricken, broken up at the Imperial Dockyard, Kiel. Pressure hull sold to Stinnes, Hamburg on 3 Feb, 1920. .

See the 13 ships hit by U 17

On 20 October, 1914 this boat was the first to sink a merchant vessel. This was the British steamer SS Glitra, which was sunk in strict accordance with prize rules.



Below is a map showing the locations of the attacks in question:


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source: uboat.net...

Can someone please tell me how a submarine was able to launch a torpedo in iceberg ridden waters and manage to hit the Titanic before the torpedo hit an iceberg first.

How close would the sub have to be before it had a clear shot of the Titanic?

I could imagine it would be akin to launching an arrow in a dense forest and trying to hit a target without the arrow hitting a tree trunk first.

The Titanic was built with an Achilles' Heel. I doubt the Germans knew this. Only the builders and insiders had this knowledge. I'm still always going to believe that the Titanic was built to be destroyed by J.P. Morgan, the Jesuits, and everyone else who wanted to see the Federal Reserve born.

reply to post by stumason
The public was told about the launching of the U-17 only days after the Titanic went to the bottom of the ocean,that doesnt mean it couldnt have been launched a little earlier,.if it was and i think it was,the Germans "would not have advertised the fact"...

reply to post by SonoftheSun
Thanxs for both of your kind thoughts and words about me,SonoftheSun and Amanda5,i dont think outside the box,i have thrown the box away...anythings possible...and the U-17's sinister Titanic connection seems to be adding up and that submarine had a range of around 6,700 nautical miles,more than enough to have sank the Titanic "way out here where no one will think we did it".The U-17 also had high explosive water mine laying capabilities,as well as carrying 6 torpedoes and was around 200ft long...

reply to post by blocula




You can't build a Dreadnought in secret..

Besides, I said "they had only just started to latch on to "national secrets" etc. Not that they didn't have them.

And still, you're banging on about U-17 despite the myriad of reasons why it couldn't have possibly done it.

When will you finally accept that, on this occasion at least, you're barking up the wrong tree, in the wrong forest, on the wrong continent.. In fact, you may as well be on Endor...

Oh, you point out that U-17 sank the first ship in WW1..

Do you know how?

In strict accordance with Prize rules, that's how. This is how everyone operated, at least at the start of the war and especially Germany. It beggars belief that you're implying that prior to this they would sink an unarmed cruise liner (full of men, women and children, from a non-beligerent nation that was the Super power of the day no less) without so much as a warning or anything else in accodance with prize or cruiser rules....

Stumason-
You are relying on emotion and insults because your arguments are weak. There is no need for insults if your thoughts were backed by substance.
Could Germans of 1912 keep military secrets? Of course they could.

Were Germans of 1912 capable of treachery? Of course they were, there are many examples of human treachery throughout history. Are Germans not human? Well maybe all political leaders are reptilians, so perhaps they were not human.

The "new" information we have is that the Titanic was "photographed" in 2010.
www.wjla.com...

I earlier gave the link to a picture of the "hole" that was discovered.

If you want to make a useful contribution, why don't you try to explain how this hole was created? Can you accept the picture evidence?

reply to post by Matt1951


That hole is a stress fracture that occured when the Titanic nose dived into the mud as she glided to the bottom of the Atlantic and then settled back. This was originally photographed in the 1985 expidition to the Titanic by Dr Robert Ballards team. It appears just below the well deck. I have images of it in my book but the only picture i can find on the net is from John Kings superb wreck Model.

John Kings Titanic Wreck Model

Returning to blocula's ramblings, Germany's 'secret manuscript' was handed to the Kaiser by Admiral Tirpitz in 1897 and the big secret was nothing more than a massive building program for Dreadnaught battleships to compete with the Royal Navy, done in secret i should add so as not to alarm Great Britian into outbuilding Germany in terms of numbers of warships.

You can perhaps see how this hole or gash opened up as she hit the sea bed.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Can someone please tell me how a submarine was able to launch a torpedo in iceberg ridden waters and manage to hit the Titanic before the torpedo hit an iceberg first.

How close would the sub have to be before it had a clear shot of the Titanic?

I could imagine it would be akin to launching an arrow in a dense forest and trying to hit a target without the arrow hitting a tree trunk first.

The Titanic was built with an Achilles' Heel. I doubt the Germans knew this. Only the builders and insiders had this knowledge. I'm still always going to believe that the Titanic was built to be destroyed by J.P. Morgan, the Jesuits, and everyone else who wanted to see the Federal Reserve born.

The U-17 could have easily shadowed the Titanic very soon after Titanic set sail and picked the perfect time and place to fire. We don't know if the first shot hit, or if they made prior attempts.

Since the U-17 was the first to sink a merchant ship in 1914, they certainly would have known what they were doing.

The Germans could have very easily known about Titanic's specs with spys. Happens all the time.
Not uncommon.

And the "coincidence" of the Californian not responding and being owned by JPM may not be a "coincidence".
Strange how those two ships were on a similar course at the same time.

The Jesuits are very powerful and have agents worldwide, as they did then.
I'm sure a Jesuit agent would have been aboard the U-17.

Maybe they used a time delay fuse on a torpedo?

The sub would have been able to "see" the submerged parts of icebergs with the periscope too.

reply to post by xuenchen


coastal boats, the plots for all U boat sinkings of the fitst world war lie in and around coastal waters they did not have the technology to develop ocean going submarines in 1912 never mind the great war 1914-1918. They did have zeppelins though! maybe one could have drifted over the Atlantic and with luck managed to drop a bomb down one of Titanic's funnels, lol.

Originally posted by FLaKK
reply to post by xuenchen

 

coastal boats, the plots for all U boat sinkings of the fitst world war lie in and around coastal waters they did not have the technology to develop ocean going submarines in 1912 never mind the great war 1914-1918. They did have zeppelins though! maybe one could have drifted over the Atlantic and with luck managed to drop a bomb down one of Titanic's funnels, lol.

The coastal attacks were the easier targets.

And, actually,

I read a book that was published in the early 1950's about the Jesuits.

Several pages were talking about the Titanic and what I am reading here is very very familiar to what I read in the book.

There were references to the possibility that the SS Califorian was in kahootz and was supplying the U-17.
The book mentioned the U-17, as I remember.

The jist of the book was about Jesuit influence in Germany mostly with the Nazis.

It did talk about some early influence in Germany before WW1.

Again, I read very similar ideas in an old book.

It also touched on the Jesuit influence to establich Israel using both sides of WW1 militaries.

The book was around before the Holocoust fanfare was heating up.

Can't remember the exact title ..... "Jesuits influence in 20th century Germany and Israel" or something like that.

Can't find anything online.

I read the book when I was a kid.

Maybe this is where the ideas here are coming from ?????

Sounds too familiar to me.

The U-boat Campaign from 1914 to 1918 was the World War I naval campaign fought by German U-boats against the trade routes of the Entente Powers. It took place largely in the seas around the British Isles and in the Mediterranean.

They were in the Mediterranean and maybe more.

U-boat Campaign (World War I)

Originally posted by FLaKK
reply to post by xuenchen

 

coastal boats, the plots for all U boat sinkings of the fitst world war lie in and around coastal waters they did not have the technology to develop ocean going submarines in 1912 never mind the great war 1914-1918. They did have zeppelins though! maybe one could have drifted over the Atlantic and with luck managed to drop a bomb down one of Titanic's funnels, lol.

"They did have zeppelins though! maybe one could have drifted over the Atlantic and with luck managed to drop a bomb down one of Titanic's funnels, lol."



Naw ..... to much wind problems.


Oh wait ...... when did that German Zeppelin crash in New Jersey?

Hmmmmm.

reply to post by Matt1951
The U-17 had "water" mine laying capabilities and it was the most advanced submarine in the world in early 1912...

Originally posted by FLaKK
blocula what about the SS Californian, a vessel which had stopped because of the ice, and was not that far away from the Titanic. Observers on the Californian saw the stricken liner sending up rocket flares but the ship never went to her assistance...hm that's an interesting one.

A "mystery ship" was seen moving towards the Titanic to as close as 5 miles with red,green and white lights and did not respond to the Titanics crew as they fired rocket flares and signaled morse code lights and it has been proven that it was not the Californian ship,which had stopped and was not moving at the time and was not sailing towards the Titanic anyways and was too far away,as proven in the following link.The mystery ship turned around and sailed away...And the plot thickens...

What ship was that? No ship came forward later with any explanation that they were the one? www.encyclopedia-titanica.org...

By the eve of World War I all of the major navies included Submarines in their fleets,but these craft were relatively small,were considered of questionable military value and generally were intended for coastal operations...except the Germans...

On the eve of WW-1,the Germans constructed several specialized Submarines with vertical mine tubes through their hulls; some U-Boats carried 48 mines in addition to their torpedoes...

The U-17 had "water" mine laying capabilities and it was the most advanced submarine in the world in early 1912...

link that proves the mystery ship was not the Californian > www.encyclopedia-titanica.org...

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by Matt1951
reply to post by blocula

 

Torpedo, mine or bomb. I don't see what else it could be.

Hmm, I wonder...maybe the massive Ice Berg every survivor saw and heard hit the ship maybe?
Both you blocula are shoehorning information to fit the situation and even then, that requires you to ignore the mountains of evidence to the contrary...

If Germany had the tech, name and shame the boat. If you can't do that, then you're talking out of your arse, sorry.

i'll bet that every survivor "did not" see the Titanic hit an iceberg,they were probably told that the ship hit ice,thats how they thought it did,one person could have start shouting "we hit an iceberg",even if they didnt hit an iceberg and within minutes everyone on the ship would hear about that rumor spreading and would have automatically believed it...

As far as all the people who said they "heard the ship strike an iceberg"...How Would They Know What Giant Sheets Of Moving Steel Sounds Like Striking Floating Ice? They Heard The Sounds Of Giant Sheets Of Moving Steel Striking Floating Ice Before?...I doubt it...They were told it did,it was very cold outside and it happened around midnight,hardly anyone would have been wandering around on the outer decks at that hour in those cold temperatures when they could have been inside the ship where it was comfortable and warm...

If the explosion heard was a German launched torpedo striking the ship and i think it was,who would know that it was a torpedo making the sound they heard? I'll bet again that 99% of people onboard the Titanic were clueless as to what an exploding torpedo sounded like,how would they know? They wouldnt have and in 1912 especially.They would have just thought it was a boiler blowing up,even if a boiler wasnt what made the initial explosion sound and it wasnt...