OWS: ATS has your opinion changed?

Originally posted by beezzer

Basically, then, if "we aren't with you, we're against you?"

Where were you during the Tea Party rallys?

This is what I mean about the narrow-minded attitude that is pervasive within this "movement".

Beezzer, the same mentality and rhetoric happened when the Tea Party was big news on this forum and outside of it.

The same, "If you are not with us, you are against us" narrow mindedness that you have stated is pervasive to the new Occupy movement. It's nothing new, it's that old age divide and conquer technique. We've all been conditioned to take sides.

In an ideal world, we should all be looking past these divides and standing together, regardless of Race, Sex, Religion, Age, Political Ideals and Differeing Opinions.

Sadly, it would take an age to break through all these barriers that have been etched into our minds. This is what the people who control us want. Us fighting amoungst ourselves. Because whilst we are doing that, they are doing whatever they want without us taking a blind bit of notice.

reply to post by skitzspiricy
There is an issue, however.

With this Occupy movement, they chose the sides. Just by making that claim, they have created a divisiveness unto themselves.

Their "approach" has doomed them from the start.

If I persue a different solution to what they are protesting, then I am no better (in their eyes) than the 1% they are supposted to be against.

They ask for my support, but it has to be on their terms. Ergo; they don't get my support.

reply to post by beezzer


I personally don't mind that yourself and many others don't support them.

They may be alienating certain people, but what movement doesn't? You can't please all of the people all of the time.

What i feel though, is that some people are not looking at the bigger picture. They are just seeing the here and now. The bigger picture from my viewpoint is that they are suffering many teething problems as most new projects always do. Ultimately they are going to start learning from their mistakes and something bigger and better will start growing.

Maybe i'm being too optimistic, but who knows

ATS has not changed my opinion at all.
The protesters themselves have changed it.

I supported their right to protest.
I liked the idea at first. Not anymore.
Just like the Tea Party ... started out good but quickly got turned over to morons.
Now they are just a public nuisance.
And it's obnoxious that they claim to speak for 99% of the country.
They absolutely do not.

OWS fails to capture hearts - less than 1/3 say it represents them

Looks like a bunch of unwashed dippy-hippy wannabees who missed the 60s protests ... pee'n and poo'n all over the place ... not bathing ... wanting everything for free .... pushing THEIR morals on people (protesting 'greed' in general but then they get upset when pro-lifers push their morals on people saying 'no abortion.) Hypocrites.

What started out as a good idea quickly became taken over by idiocy. Continually breaking the law .... stealing from local business' ... using their children as human shields ... pee'n and poo'n everywhere ... demanding a free ride ....

edited to add ... forgot to mention ... the only people I know in real life (not on the internet) who support this stupidity are people who are dipsy-doos. Seriously empty headed and who expect a free ride from the gov't.

reply to post by SLAYER69


At first I thought people were doing it for attention but once I looked more into the movement I definitely realized what their point was. I definitely changed. Excellent thread OP.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
many of those opposing banks and wallstreet will vote for Obama when he was the biggest bailouter/supporter for corrupt banks and wallstreet. Obama is not pro-wallstreet, Obama IS wallstreet They'll vote for him anyhow:

Glad you brought that up. The yahoos out there protesting - for the most part - are O-bots. (I see Obamessiah signs in with the protest signs and reporters have asked the protesters who they plan to vote for) Obama is as corrupt as the rest of the politicians and has big ties to Wall Street $$ ... but while the protesters are out complaining about Wall Street, they go on with the chants of 'yes we can' and '4 more years' for Obama. :shk:

"Despite some ATS members overzealous blind support for the movement and those various nefarious activities done in OWS name by a small group."

At ATS I have seen many people supporting violence and even murder towards OWS protesters by the police. I have not found any posts supporting anything nefarious done by a small group calling themselves OWS. Care to quote any for illustrative purposes please? ATS does have an overwhelming feel of negativity towards OWS. Protesters are demanded to stay peaceful and cops cheered and applauded when they commit brutalities. At least here OWS supporters arent being banned right off the bat as in other conservative-leaning conspiracy forum(s).

reply to post by beezzer


I'm not against anyone in general for sure. I wish for the best for the vast majority of people.

Their attitude seems to be that way, as so non-eloquently stated by Bush. They truly seem to feel it's us vs. them. It's us who don't seem to get it in enough numbers to really stop them. So it seems to me.

I started off neutral / sympathetic to OWS. Above all I am deeply unhappy with what I see around me at the moment - unemployment, recession, massive use of tax payers money to bail out bankers, corrupt officials.

Anybody that shares these concerns, and I think most people do, would be interested in a movement that protests some of these issues. Yes there are problems that have already been mentioned - incidents, issues that some of us disagree with, protestors that some disagree with. However, OWS retains my sympathy as the best (and only) movement in town that is willing to get out there and stand up to say they aren't going to take it anymore.

I've also got to say that when I look at some of the reasons why some here say they oppose OWS it concretes my support for OWS. When I hear talk of communism for example I hear the propoganda of a bygone era - a long period when Amercians were brought up to hate the 'evil empire' (USSR) and communism unquestioningly. Today we can see the echos or ripples of that.

I don't like it when people are unable to think freely, to consider the issues without reverting to some programming they received either from MSM, or from their parents. We all have our own brains after all, information and facts are the key, even if that contradicts what you previously believed.

Never was for or against OWS, but the fact that ATS is turning into a OWS website is irritating me. Every time I check ATS, every other article is "OWS this" or "OWS that".

IMO, you would be better off setting up a national OWS website where all the OWS crowd can check in for updates or post happenings within the movement.

reply to post by Darkrunner


Come on, what do you expect? It's a sizable movement happening in countries around the world against the banking elite. It's not like there aren't enough Ron Paul threads, Alien Threads, Religious threads, Alternative topics to keep anyone happy.

Originally posted by juniperberry
Yup my feeling changed too. From neutral to pulling my support from the movement.

My reasons relate to the fact that I'm not see a vehicle for change being suggested by any of the participants. But I view most protests the same way. Yes it's nice to voice your demands, but in my world, it works best if you come half way and provide some reasonable suggestions as to how you'd like them met. As well, arguments that make an overarching claim that "5% get's ALL the money" is nothing more than someone's opinion without solid facts to back it up.

As well, the OWS has to realize that the banking/mortgage/school debt problem it isn't ALL "other people's fault" and they have to make some concession that the debt problem is partly an individual person's own fault.

I believe in the old saying "God helps those who help themselves" (not talking about any selfish stealing aspects that some would come out with).

Actually the 5% own almost 75% of all the wealth, it is documented and based in facts

source... www.marketoracle.co.uk...
But back to the OP, I only found out about the OWS yesterday, and after only a little bit of research I was dismayed to find out it has been co-opted by communist and socialist groups. Just like every other popular peoples movement, infiltrated, taken over by the same globalist powers that they seek to overthrow.

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Never was for or against OWS, but the fact that ATS is turning into a OWS website is irritating me. Every time I check ATS, every other article is "OWS this" or "OWS that".

IMO, you would be better off setting up a national OWS website where all the OWS crowd can check in for updates or post happenings within the movement.

Its called current affairs, and by the nature of current affairs, whats current gets discussed the most.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Are you talking about the Threads where Pro-OWS supporters were calling for revolution,sometimes violently?

I was rather talking about such rethorical questions like you present with that one, insinuating that you over there are on the edge of chaos and destructions, because some people dare to protest in the USA.

Because thats change most Americans dont want,hence the 98% that sit at home,and wait for some clarity of a movement,that will actually have ONE message that they can rally behind.

So most people are waiting for a handbook or a leader they can follow? They miss the chance to take part in a movement which they could influence with their voices then. Change cannot be ordered from the pizza service.

Its not hard to talk about communists,socialists,fascists,when there ARE those elements at OWS,but clearly,you forgot to point that out,unless you didnt happen to see it,or actually go to a protest rally.

Honestly I think, those who use these terms the most know only little about what they mean. But in a world, where "social" is a bad thing, I am not astounded to find a lack of social behaviour and thinking.

I assume Europe knows all to well what change is though,because they are soon to embark on the wonderful journey of it,and hopefully wont be doomed to the countless changes that have occurred there throughout the ages.Violently at times.

History is full of violence, yes, but it usually came over the people anyway - protesting or keeping the mouth shut. And usually people had to fight for every little piece of freedom, like the USA had to fight to get rid of the British. But here we are talking about protests in a country that is proud of it's free speech - a storm in a glass of water.

Many in Europe also forget the melting pot of America was once a haven from the oppression there.

Indeed it was. Many Germans - for example - made it over the ocean after the 1848 uprising had failed. They had tried to change the system, get more rights and better living conditions, but were perceived as dangerous and destructive. Much like OWS.

Originally posted by freethinker123
I don't like it when people are unable to think freely, to consider the issues without reverting to some programming they received either from MSM, or from their parents.

State indoctrination programmes aka national curriculums and education policy probably have as great an influence.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

The threads questions are basically these...

Have your views, stance or opinions changed about OWS since OWS started?
If so, from what to what and why?

I'm still reserving judgement. On the one hand this movement appears organic and has focused on and called for change to one element of how the policies and practices of those in power undermine the rights and aspirations of the majority. On the other, the movement is ripe for manipulation and exploitation by all elements of the hierarchical power structures and by dint of its organic nature, is vulnerable to diversion.

However, what is not widely reported anywhere is how the movement challenges existing status quo. The Occupy London Stock Exchange has caused problems for local authority direct and contracted out services to homeless people in London. The camps at St Pauls and Finsbury Park have attracted a lot of rough sleepers and people within the movement have addressed this by setting up support and advice services tents that include fully qualified healthcare. Representatives of existing homelessness services organisations have condemned this type of social responsibility, claiming the movement is working to discredit official long term strategies.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I don't feel OWS is mostly bashed here at all. It's actually a fairly even distribution thread wise. I think you are correct that the poster must have missed some of the strongly pro-ows threads. Maybe, just maybe, that has to do with the fact that pro-ows threads die off while anti-ows threads turn into bickering matches that last for days. Actually, both pro and anti end up like that, theory debunked.

Anyways......

I supported some of the goals of some of the groups then, and I still do now, maybe my support is stronger in light of the massive smear campaign against them, and the police crackdown with in *SOME* cases, unjustifiable violence.

I refuse to let a few bad apples taint the entire movement, and I refuse to pretend that OWS is only taking place in Oakland. There's an OWS protesting taking place in front of my local legislature right now, in nowhereimportant Canada, and one in Halifax, Vancouver, Toronto, and probably more. All fighting for the same singular goal of reinstating equality and justice into the system.

[I have to be honest] many of the Pro OWS supporters attitudes here are doing a great job of killing my potential support for and hope that OWS will eventually accomplish something tangible after it's all said and done.

That's quite an interesting statement and I would hope that maybe in another thread for you to explain that, it might actually help. If I may be so bold as to make an assumption, i would assume it's a similar "bad taste in the mouth" I have after reading some of the pro anonymous stuff.

There's supporting a movement and a goal, and then there's just fanaticism, and when you add a bunch of youths who feel disenfranchised, not all of them are going to be there for the same reason, at all. The pro-ows crowd that attempts to sugar coat the entire thing isn't doing any good at all. But that doesn't change my opinion or support of the movement, and I'm not sure how the opinions of people obviously not taking part in the protests, could sway your view one way or the other.

Originally posted by TheMindWar
The "official" ows website that has banned alex jones is the biggest corruption of the OWS movement I have seen so far. This banning of individuals and suppression of free speech proves beyond doubt that there are darker forces at work here. All Alex Jone and his infowar partners are doing is telling the truth, and they are being attacked for telling the truth. The truth may scare some people but unless we face that truth we are lost and the next step will be total obedience to tptb and then we will be ready to be marched to the gas ovens.

The Alex Jones debacle is really just icing on the cake. It doesn't matter if he's telling the truth or lying through his teeth, he has the same right to free speech as OWS does. Whether either is actually exercising the First Amendment variety of free speech is open for debate, but immaterial in the long run - they deny to other people the same rights they claim for themselves, whatever variety of free speech they are exercising.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I have suported OWS from the start and will not be swayed in my suport. I understand that most comments about the bad apples of OWS are just griping at straws. These bad apples does not condem OWS take the actions of other historical movements. Violence was alot more apparent but did not dilute or take away the meaning of the caurse. Alot of educated members on ats forget this or chose to ignore it BUT they are insignificant. A few comments on a web site will not derail OWS. The swaying factor is the lack of true coverge of OWS at the media level. Here on ats we know what is realy going on through watching outside sources. So much of the public rely on there local news this will be the death of ows in the end not a SELECT few on a web site.

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Never was for or against OWS, but the fact that ATS is turning into a OWS website is irritating me. Every time I check ATS, every other article is "OWS this" or "OWS that".

IMO, you would be better off setting up a national OWS website where all the OWS crowd can check in for updates or post happenings within the movement.

Its called current affairs, and by the nature of current affairs, whats current gets discussed the most.

Fair enough I guess, And I actually agree with the OWS crowd as far as the need for regulatory oversight of banks and Wall Street. Just tired of the play by play.

"This just in, a protester in Nantucket is hit by a police baton!"

My opinion of OWS hasn't changed.

We have too much money corrupting our system and govt.with very little accountability.

Money rules our lives here in the United States of America and materialism rules.

Simply look at our current POTUS and who funded him and what he's done to perpetuate the same ideals that Bush did even though he sold us a completely different bill of goods......why ?

Because he has to answer to his sponsors whom are the Big Banks ....that is why !

How can we have a fair and just system of govt if it is simply ruled by the highest bidder which is what we have today ?


Peace