OWS: ATS has your opinion changed?

Originally posted by CREAM

Originally posted by neo96
No my opinion hasn't change and will never change the simple fact OWS went after the wrong people people can argue til their blue in their face and camp out and "protest" their little hearts out but the simple fact is its been over 2 months and what have they accomplished?

Absolutely nothing and yep some of their defenders have earned my utter contempt which are nothing but ideologues others not so much.

Honestly they to rethink what they want and how they want to get their because of all the "Events" that have happened they are not doing themselves or anyone else any "favors".

edit on 22-11-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

"what have they accomplished? Absolutely nothing"

Did you not notice the "occupy" bill that got introduced into congress to end insider trading in congress?

That bill alone proves 1. OWS has been a huge success. 2. You are being dishonest in your argument.

Oh, and let me add this for people who don't know:

"Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.

This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better society."

Straight off the OWS website.

Hello I wanted to cut some of your quote off but after I finished reading up on the Stock Act and the rest of your post I had some questions and thoughts. Thank you for informing everyone of the Insider Trading Act but how exactly does that help the rest of the population? I'm being serious here. I have seen various bills against Insider Trading but I don't think these are bills that truly help the people because at the end of the day there are many different Black Tie affairs and the big boys always help out the bigs boys.
There has been massive inflation in almost every aspect of American life and I just don't think a stock bill is going to end that.

Also what do you mean by your last comment? Occupy wants an assembly an every backyard? On every street corner? So limited or no government is the solution to all our problems? Sorry I am trying to understand how that would even work. I think today is a good day for OWS because they have at least peaked the interest of one more individual but I still don't fully understand the final goal.

Lacks leadership and direction with any credible/workable alternative - I still don't support it.

However, it is admirable that people are standing up for what they believe in, but as I have said time and time again, the people needed to make change are the people that can't afford to take time out to stand up and those are the people this OWS movement should be standing up for. From what I've seen, there is nothing to suggest the average worker would benefit at all from allowing this movement to have it's way. This will eventually amount to nothing but a waste of resources and a further drain on the tax payer unless it changes direction and supports the working population which is the cornerstone to any revolution. If that doesn't happen, this will be remembered short term as nothing more than a waste of time and energy and then forgotten in years to come.

I was on the fence when this began, but now I am against OWS. Thus far I feel they have accomplished very little if anything. For the most part the members are very disrespectful and rude. For example I saw a video today where some of the protesters interrupted the president, come on folks show some respect. I didn't vote for Mr. Obama but the man is the president of the United States. What I see is a bunch of cry babies who don't like what is happening in the world so they sit around in a park acting like little brats. As far as their message, well I still haven't figured out what they are saying. They have pointed out some obvious flaws with the system but have offered no solutions.

reply to post by sonnny1


holy toledo. that's really quite depressing.

why do they want communism, don't they know how miserable that is for everyone? even stalin was miserable all the time and the dude in argentina (what's his name?) is said to be incredibly paranoid constantly. that doesn't sound like a good system to replace what we already have, which granted, isn't great, it certainly is preferable to communism, which thus far has shown itself to be nothing but a pure misery.

reply to post by CREAM


So it is your opinion that OWS was responsible for the leak of information about Nancy Pelosi's insider trading activities, even after she offered them her personal support? Something wrong with that. If anything, OWS may have spurred more conservative attention on this aspect of Congressional misbehavior. Plus, I wonder if a bill can just be thrown together in two months like that. Something is just not right.


Ok just checked and it's not a new bill and wasn't written in lieu of OWS. Rep Louise Slaughter sponsored it years ago, then 60 minutes aired something on insider trading. Maybe OWS inspired the staff of 60 minutes though.
www.buffalonews.com...

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by sonnny1

 

holy toledo. that's really quite depressing.

why do they want communism, don't they know how miserable that is for everyone? even stalin was miserable all the time and the dude in argentina (what's his name?) is said to be incredibly paranoid constantly. that doesn't sound like a good system to replace what we already have, which granted, isn't great, it certainly is preferable to communism, which thus far has shown itself to be nothing but a pure misery.

Corporatism, crony capitalism,Communism,Fascism.

Common Denominator? Government Control.

What are OWS'S demands again from Government ?

Get your Government Back. Protest with a purpose, that AMERICA,all of AMERICA,can get behind. Maybe then you will see millions instead of Thousands.

reply to post by undo

Yep, Horowitz switched sides. He is well informed on how the Left works because he was part of it. Now he knows what to look for. He was one of the first to pinpoint the leftist connections of OWS.

I'm still ambivalent for the most part, but as time goes on I see this as nothing but trouble. I agree with others that similar to the Tea Party, OWS is probably on the trajectory to be co-opted and turned into something it is not.

The most disturbing thing to me is that there is a faction that wants to protest violently. I realize that provocateurs are present at these protests, but what does OWS do to address this? Are protesters being training on how to spot them and what to do when they find them? Is OWS actively policing its ranks and stopping vandals?

Violence will lead to absolutely no good for anyone, even those of us who haven't joined the protests.


Also, why hasn't the main focus turned to DC? I understand why Wall St was the first focal point, but nothing is going to change by marching in NY. DC is the only place where meaningful change can and must take place.

reply to post by SLAYER69


You remember when ATS was supportive of OWS?

No you don't. There wasn't such a point. Sure there were the usual loonies who are always hoping for armed insurrection so that they can put "The Turner Diaries" to actual use.

And then there are people like you who were "People are in the streets, what are they OHGOD SOCIAL JUSTICE! TAKE IT AWAY TAKE IT AWAAAAAAAAAAY!" and have been screaming and ranting and whining and bitching and moaning and lying and denigrating and lying a lot more, just to keep your own spirits up that maybe, just maybe, all this will blow over and you will no longer feel guilty or shameful about your unswerving, unwavering, shotgun-that-propaganda-brew support of the very people causing the problem.

So... yeah. The gist on ATS has mostly been people making crap up in a frantic attempt to "de-legitimatize" the movement, seizing on non-events to attack the people involved, voicing their salivating support and sexual pleasure derived from police brutality (A few have even called for the mass murder of protestors, in fact), ignoring every fact presented to them by those handful of us in support of OWS, and have just, in general, been screaming their pinny little heads off like Joe McCarthy after getting his crotch OC'd.

Has my opinion of OWS changed due to ATS? No, but my opinion of many of my fellow ATSers has changed due to OWS.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

You remember when ATS was supportive of OWS?

No, that's not what I asked.

But please continue...

No you don't.

Yes I do remember when the "Overwhelming amount of threads were very Pro OWS"

There wasn't such a point.

Denying it doesnt change the facts

Has my opinion of OWS changed due to ATS?

No.

That again wasnt the question. So now that's twice you've gotten it wrong but please continue don't let that prevent you from prattling on...


I think I just got a nose bleed...

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

I've read many posts that were supportive of OWS. There are still many supportive posts daily.

and btw, Undo? I want to eat your av- what is that? Jelly fruit slices?

You know what people? My post will likely be washed away in the archives of ATS forgotten.

But I will tell you this, OWS, Many disagree with. First this movement has no leadership or direct message*(at least that’s the number one opposing viewpoint). Next many OWS protestors are imposing on order within society, such as people going to important meetings, perhaps emergency services, some even panhandling, others involved in crime.

Do you know what I hear the overwhelming majority who express such grievance’s saying? They say I would support such a movement if......Fill in the blank. So I say to my self, Wow," We THE PEOPLE, overwhelmingly support change, in fact we support a quick and swift change. Which makes sense because we are a society raised on impatience and intolerance. So perhaps a revolution is in order? But no, when confronted with such change, we fear for our economic and social standings. So then we revert back to reality, only to withstand each injustice passed down by our superiors, only to secretly, B* and moan about the banks, and the ridiculous charges, we accept as reality".

So I say this, Indeed OWS may not be the proxy of change, but instead each and every single viewpoint that indeed differs is in actuality the only way change will take place. We THE PEOPLE voted a president on the basis of HOPE, and CHANGE. So reasonably WE all agree some sort of change is in order. The only way to achieve such change at this point is in the street. Yes at the battlefront of criticism, so where will you stand?

This is the only question remaining; will you stand at the forefront of indifference and complacency, which you only keep doing what your doing and getting what you've always got? Or will you stand and say this is what I believe and who I am, so that maybe you can achieve the dream of peaceful and cohesive understanding we've always wanted as individuals?

When have peaceful protests, ever changed violent status quos?


BTW, im not a bleeding heart liberal, i didn't vote Obama in. Infact i have identified with conservative views for so long. But i do support change, that change i have no idea of the answer. Perhaps end the fed and revert back to our constitutional value's. I dont belive this can be done by our current leaders or it's sucesessor's, so perhaps a revolution is in order. Tracy chapman revolution link:

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by TechniXcality
When have peaceful protests, ever changed violent status quos?

In descending chronological order

Occupy Wall Street (work in progress)
Syria (work in progress)
Egypt (work in progress)
Tunisia
Lebanon's Cedar Revolution
Ukraine's Orange revolution
Women of Liberia Mass Action for Peace
Otpor!
Solidarność
The fall of the Berlin Wall
The Velvet Revolution
The Singing Revolution
People Power Revolution
The Iranian revolution (Technically it was a decrease in violence, compared to the Shah)
Larzac
...Do I really need to run through the stuff from the 60's?

Compare to violent revolutions - even our own revolution back in the 18th centiry gave us a nation where humans were lower than animals, and genocide was an acceptable means of enjoining the real estate market.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Whoa whoa, i think you misread my quote.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

You remember when ATS was supportive of OWS?

No, that's not what I asked.

No, but it IS what you stated:

I've seen ATS opinion sway from the earliest days of the movement from overwhelmingly Pro OWS

Yes I do remember when the "Overwhelming amount of threads were very Pro OWS"

As I said, perhaps you're confused; there were some people who hoped it would turn into an armed uprising. And there were some people who were "into it" until they realized tht it wasn't a staged campaign event for Sarah Palin like the last "protest" was. But no, there was never widespread support.

Asking for support for social justice from ATS is absolutely no different than soliciting donations for the NAACP from Stormfront. This place is a haven of people who hate their fellow human beings, enjoy seeing them brutalized, and live to spit on them when they are down. it's a place where the word "empathy" is treated as the most vile thing that could ever be uttered. The odds of an ATS outpouring of support for OWS - a movement that does not hate black people, does not want poor people to starve, doesn't advocate mass murder of nonchrstians, and has no interest in feeding tax money to Exxon- strikes me as unlikely.

Denying it doesnt change the facts

Never stopped you.

That again wasnt the question.

I know. I altered the question. Did you want an answer or were you hoping for survey results of "Yes / no / don't know"?

I think I just got a nose bleed...

You know alcohol kills brain cells way faster than smashing your own head against a wall, right?

reply to post by TechniXcality


Sorry, facetious questions don't translate well to text

But I HAVE seen the claim that peaceful protest accomplishes nothing, so... hey. There's a list now

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


DUDE, check it out, if peacful protests become the majority, the violent "status quo" would no longer be the "status quo" there for the minority. Do you dig? Not a call to violence, rather an intellectual call to personal responsibilty?

Originally posted by Expat888
3. No realistic or viable alternatives.

Nope, I'm not a proponent of anarchy....

But as much as I would love to be a law abiding citizen, truth is I don't even know the number of laws that exist.
Debt is not money. Debt is the lack of money.

Fact: There is not enough money in circulation for every American to pay their fair share of the national debt.

Fact: It is illegal for me to print or create my own money.

So it either is not my problem, or that leaves the remaining realistic viable alternatives as ___________ (Please fill in the blank for me).


✓mate. We are pinned in. Someone's move.



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