Scientology. Is there something were not seeing?

reply to post by UFOOWNER


I don't think people are saying Scientologists are bad. I hope they are not. The problem is that the fact you have to have lots of money and the nature of the Founder pretty much shows it's a confidence game and the leaders are crooks, who take advantage of the mentally ill.

The exact same form of negativity therapy was abandoned by Psychiatry long ago. It works and works well on fragile minds.

What kind of person withholds information from people that they think will help them unless you cough up large sums of cash?

reply to post by Unknown Soldier




~SheopleNaton

reply to post by WakeUpRiseUp

No of course not. But if they didn’t do anything about it and paid of the victims so that people didn’t hear about it, then the CEO would be sacked. The church has a culture of abuse because people know they can get away with it.

Must I've heard of is taking the priest away into Orwellian reeducation facilities. You need sources for your claims.

All religions stockpile money, land and assets. List one that doesn’t and actually uses all of its money for good.

First tell me why that is bad. Why is it bad to promote culture, art, and architecture? And why is it different than what Scientology does? Simple. Scientology hasn't done anything cultural. Only monetarily. Corporations of the economy seek to gain money by essentially seeing how much they can get from you, and then they use these assets to keep doing this over ad over again, with no care of its affects on the planet. Mainstream religions seek to see how much they can make you happy, and care about the planet. What's ever more important, is that the amount of death due to desire for money far outweighs the number dead due to desire to change your religion. Quite frankly, less than 10% of any religion try to force their ways on you. Over 90% of every corporations want you to conform to their way and will bomb your country via the governments they control to do so.

Scientology, to make the differentiation, is a corporation. Popular religions do not have much hierarchy, and there is not much money in difference. A billionaire bows to a priest with barely enough money to keep his church going. Billy Graham spends time with people who might be dead in a day. You're lucky to ever even glimpse the popular members of Scientology.

Yes, centuries of crimes against humanity for the old school religions and you only need to look in the news to see the crimes of modern religions. Of course no one is innocent but not everyone claims legal immunity because they are 'spiritual'. Not everyone exploits emotionally unsecure people for monetary gain.

Scientology does this. All mainstream religions seek to repair you and make you a member powerful in their body. Scientology seeks to destroy you and keep you low for a cash reserve.

Your right materialism does have effects, and who do you think helps enforce that system? If you look back in history you will see the vatican has had a big hand in the disgusting system we live in today.

Incorrect. The Spanish crown has caused a great deal of those issues, by landing a couple thousand soldiers in the crusades and telling the Pope that they want he silk road, or else. Money is the top cause of death. Religion is simply one of many ways those addicted to money use to get it. Before the Spanish did this, Muslims, Christians, and Jews did pretty well together. There were even talks between Muslims and Christians into how they could merge, symbolized by the construction of the Great Golden Dome of Jerusalem. These two faiths produced wonderful acts of culture, architecture, poetry, and science. Then a few rich men decided to take advantage of it. Do not blame religion for the crimes of a few wealth people.

You may not see it but the vatican actually enforces the system still, and billions live in poverty because of it.

Baseless speculation; fallacy.

How do you know? I’m sure there are millions of backdoor deals in the vatican, I'm sure the choosing of the pope isn’t free either.

Baseless speculation; fallacy.

Anyway, I think having to buy your way up is a lot more humane then having to give your emotional stability.

Baseless speculation; fallacy.

Furthermore, suggests you actually support Scientology, and it is not more humane. Corporations have done the greatest damage to this earth all over a few dollars. Burn Money, it's a sin just having it in my book.

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reply to post by Blaine91555


The thread went off topic on its own. And no I am not a scientology supporter; I just defend them like you yourself would want to be treated equally.
How is scientology harassing you any different to saying that if you don’t follow your god you will go to hell and be tortured for eternity?
Scientology is the modern form of mainstream religions, people don’t fall for that stuff anymore.. They need direct oppression. The church uses indirect oppression, which works just as well on people like the elderly who were forced to believe and fear it.
I want to remove the ideas of religion because they slow down the progress of mankind, they oppress people and make people live in fear. It is sad to watch family members be brainwashed and have society support it.

You do know that using examples of people doing bad while pretending to be Christian is just as dishonest as they are. I can claim to be anything, but it does not make it so.

The problem with religion is that if one man says 'god told me to kill 100 children' you can’t prove him wrong and technically should support him. It gives one limitless possibilities in a non infinite world.
I don’t say that all christians are this or that, but they all contribute to a damaging culture.

Implying Scientology is up there with other organized religions is proof enough that this entire discussion is ridiculous. Please, go on with the priests molesting kids. Scientology really is a financial scheme. Please, say the catholic church is exactly the same. Do it. It's not true.

Originally posted by Blarghdt
Implying Scientology is up there with other organized religions is proof enough that this entire discussion is ridiculous. Please, go on with the priests molesting kids. Scientology really is a financial scheme. Please, say the catholic church is exactly the same. Do it. It's not true.

Please prove to me how they are any different.

reply to post by windword


Wow, that takes me back to my first year out of high school, I went through my intellectual jazz phase...Chick Corea, Billy Cobham, Tom Scott and the LA Express, John McLaughlin and the Mahvishnu Orchestra, they all had a certain high velocity sound. And the sophistication of the late night shows.
After that came my classical phase....

anyway, on topic, I met someone in scientology who would one time be your best friend, then the next your worst enemy. Spread rumors, set people against each other, engage in huge power struggles, use your words against you, use your weakness or your personal history against you. They ask questions and act like they are your confidante, then bam! they break your confidence and tell other people everything you said. She is one of the most treacherous people I ever met. Of course everything was always my fault.
Then she said some of the most personally evil things to me and within 12 hours I was sick with one of the worst flus Ive ever had that lasted for several months.
After that I researched Scientology a bit and found out how much stuff has been exposed about them. I think it's a mixed bag with some evil stuff.
I even ran across a YouTube of Anonymous confronting a Scientology person.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Here's Tom on Scientology:

This should just be the end of the thread. This person should be put into a 10'x 10' box and thrown into a volcano..

I think all this proves is that actors are bat # crazy. Anyone who is pretending their are other people a good portion of their life has some screws loose. That can be said for a lot of artists though. Music, painting and so on have had all their fare share.

The main difference between the cult of Scientology and, for lack of a better term, "real" religions (i.e. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, et. al.) is that despite what you may think about what the latter group have become, what they stand for now, or whether they are good or not for the world, their origins were almost certainly pure and well intended...Now, Scientology, however was and is, from day one a money making pyramid scheme to make money off of rich, gullible rubes who are attracted to it because it strokes their egos and simply confirms what they've suspected all along: that they are indeed special...

Originally posted by yourignoranceisbliss

Originally posted by WakeUpRiseUp
Look I know that scientology is no different to any other religion and im not saying its real or anything..
but how do they get so many celebrity supporters?
List of Famous Scientologists
I know that celebrities are always for hire but there is a difference between being spokesman for a religion then for a new diet or perfume.
I know they are filthy rich but I imagine the asking price for changing Tom Cruises or John Travolta’s religion would be more then they have. Especially to something to something like scientology which would loose them millions of fans and subsequently millions in profit because not as many people want to see their movies.

So what I'm wondering, is there possibly a government or big corporation agenda behind scientology?
The effects of religion are great for brainwashing and controlling the public, not only does it brainwash the followers but it also convinces people of other religions that they are right.
I don’t know, but I think there’s something behind it they we don’t see..
What do you think?

First of all; Scientology isn't a religion. The "Church" part of their name was sought after solely for tax purposes, by their insane former leader / cult creator L. Ron Hubbard.

L. Ron Hubbard: "Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous, If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion." -at a Science Fiction convention.

Secondly, you spelled lose as "loose", rendering you slightly incompetent, in my humble opinion, no offense. What device does NOT have spell check these days?

Jeez.

And what reaction would you expect from spellcheck when the word "loose" is typed in?
You realize loose is a word, right?
It's the opposite of tight.
Used in a sentence: His grip on reality was rapidly coming loose, and so he began to criticize others and attempt to offer solutions even though his own logic of believing spellcheck can read your mind was tragically flawed, like a staggering drunk swinging punches at shadows in the dark, his instability manifesting on multiple levels as his body swayed to and fro.

Originally posted by Threadfall
The main difference between the cult of Scientology and, for lack of a better term, "real" religions (i.e. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, et. al.) is that despite what you may think about what the latter group have become, what they stand for now, or whether they are good or not for the world, their origins were almost certainly pure and well intended...Now, Scientology, however was and is, from day one a money making pyramid scheme to make money off of rich, gullible rubes who are attracted to it because it strokes their egos and simply confirms what they've suspected all along: that they are indeed special...

I hear what you’re saying but the fact is we don’t know the original intent of the old school religions. Fact is we have been studying psychology for a long time and I don’t think it would have taken our ancient geniuses long to work out that 'religion' is the perfect business plan. No doubt at the start of the religions around today they would have known that, so their intent is questionable. Particularly christianty which from the beginning pushed its agenda of destruction, genocide and control all over the world.
Scientology is only a modern form of the 'real' religions. Think about it. Today a lot of people are smart and wont fall for the 'be tortured in hell' oppressive tactics, so they use aggression and threats. I don’t see much difference between the two tactics, apart from the audience they are directed at.
Do you think that if scientology had been around for thousands of years and christanity was new you would be saying the same thing for Christianity?
Cheers for your input.

reply to post by WakeUpRiseUp


I think that there is something to be said of longevity of the 'real' religions I mentioned (I know that was a bad choice of words). I don't think that their longevity and relatively obscure origins should necessarily bolster their arguments, but the fact is that it does for most people, staying power simply impresses people. I do not think that Scientology will have the longevity to be considered a true religion in the long run, but then only time will tell for history is a great bard. And by the way, I cannot honestly say that I hold a specific religious affiliation right now, so I don't want to sound like I'm pushing some ethos. It is just that, honestly, I think Scientology is puerile and was never intended to uplift people, it was intended to grift them.

reply to post by WakeUpRiseUp


This is just my opinion/speculation based on what I've read on the internet, but my take on it is that the celebrities only see one side of the religion. They see the events, the charity, all the good work that is done by the religion (of which there is some). They think the religion is the best thing ever and so start to spread the word. Of course, while that's happening their money is being siphoned from them due to the donations they have to make to progress up through the ranks.

The people who aren't rich aren't treated the same way. They still have to pay big bucks for their "cleansing" or whatever they call it (Excorcising the Thetans) but they don't get to go to the big events or recieve any charity. Instead they eventually get to graduate to the ship they have in international waters (Sea Org I think its called) on which they basically get treated like slave labour.

I'm sure part of the draw is that the celebrities in question feel like there's something wrong with them and the whole story of xenu and the Thetans is an easy excuse. i.e. That its not their fault their life is #, its because of those nasty Thetans that have attached to them. So all they have to do is pay some more money and do whatever is asked of them and they can be free from the influence.

In that regard its similar to other religions.

reply to post by Threadfall
Need I remind you that until just a few generations ago people were forced to believe and fear in it? That’s the only reason it seems normal today; because people who were forced to follow it told us that it is correct. Honestly, what does that tell you?
Scientology simply got into the religion game too late. It probably will remain for a while, but today they cannot use the same tactics that mainstream religions used not long ago to instil their image as normal and unquestionable.

You don’t really sound like your pushing some ethos, I understand where your coming from as I used to think like that until I started thinking about it without emotion and the preconceived ideas that society pushed on me. The power of social influence is huge and for most people unavoidable. When you look at it away from the views of society, the ideas of religion are simply ridiculous.
Like I said scientology uses direct methods, which are more obviously wrong.

Originally posted by WakeUpRiseUp

Originally posted by drock905
Did they get so powerfull in hollywood doing the same thing tho? Or is there something else behind their roots in the city.

Well, if we were to assume that the stories of Hollywood being the propagandist and entertainment wings of the United States government, wouldn`t it make sense for something like Scientolgy, with such deep talons within both the area, as well as the population of Hollywood, to also be just another tool of the government?

Just speculation of course, but if the shoe fits right?

Scientology made the list at # 22 Major religions ranked by size.

According to this study Scientology has 500 thousand followers.

Major Religions Ranked by Number of Adherents

Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.5 billion
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
primal-indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand

"Nothing is so easy as to deceive one's self; for what we wish we readily believe." --Demosthenes

Hmmm... will probably get a lashing for this but what the heck.

They way they deal with things are crappy, the blackmail etc. Apparently harassing you if you leave...and all the rest.

But... I must say- I'm not a Scientologist. I didn't even know what they believed until today. But, the Idea that we live more than one lifetime and re-incarnate on different planets seems interesting. I have always believed in reincarnation and ET life. Even though I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness.. I could just never follow it. It didn't resonate with me.
I also do believe that we have forgotten our purpose for some reason- so, Scientology is so close to my belief system and I've never even know what it is about. I've only heard the name....

It's strange. I don't get why people are all over Tom Cruse for that video. He clearly wants to help change the world for the better. Even if he may be misguided... His intentions are to help.