The time for peaceful resistance is up

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
No they shouldn't have. They're being taken perfectly serious without any stupidity such as riots or violence.After all, look how many people on ATS are desperately, desperately trying any tack they can to discredit OWS. Desperate people like you, and Slayer, and so many others.

Pointing out the reality of the situation and facts is not a desperate attempt to discredit the movement. Had you've been reading I've stated numerous times here at ATS that I agree with the General Premise of the movements cause but not their lack of leadership, lack of cohesive message and lack of a real agenda.

If we were to actually defend ourselves against those that harm us, don't you see that's when we'd be in harmony with the rest of the world and us as a people? That's when we'd be able to nurture our planet and the entire world, we'd truly be a NWO, of love and happiness that is.

Originally posted by decepticonLaura
you cannot fight those in power using their own methods.
or to put it another way, violence can only beget more violence.

also, we have something far more powerful than mere brute force on our side
we have the knowledge that the things we are protesting for are right.
nobody can deny that the world is in bad shape, corruption and unnecessary wars rampant.
we do not need to descend to the level of those who try to stop this.
we have our integrity and that is why we cannot lose.

So where do you fall on the political spectrum then? This is a hypocrisy test question.

Yeah that will win you support...
Not...

Just,NO.

Thanks for those intelligent responses. I will surely keep in mind "Just, no" and "That will win your support, not" Truly, thank you.

I need not support, I'm not any leader starting an uprising. What I have gained however is insight that there are other patriots out there. What's the definition of a patriot? Defender of ones country. You call this defending your country?

Would you at least admit we are under attack?

Originally posted by Hiasyouwant
If these people (OWS) wanted to be taken seriously they should've rioted, stormed the banks. If those 10k people wherever stormed the HQ of Chase or something then I'd say rage on. I believe it would have spread like a wild fire, have been epic. A real revolution could have occurred. While I understand their would be much collateral damage, I believe the time for peaceful resistance is up. Sitting in a park absolutely accomplishes diddly squat.

I know their are a bunch of OWS threads.. Let's focus more on a fictional scenario of what would have happened had they stormed the HQ of one of these banks, all 10k of them. Would it have spread? Would it have been a good idea? Would thousands more have joined?

Let's also focus on weather or not you agree if the time for peaceful resistance is over.

What say you, ATS

edit on 19-11-2011 by Hiasyouwant because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-11-2011 by Hiasyouwant because: (no reason given)

No, if you riot then there you're not protected from anything, not even the Constitution, the American Govt is already going beyond their inherent powers so what's to stop them from making drastic measures, all in the name I'm positive they'd use "suppress terrorism" . Once you go violent then you give law enforcement every right to take appropriate measures. What would be accomplished from burning down buildings (in reference to a "protestor" threatening to use molotov cocktail) or any other violent acts? You end up killing innocents, harming innocents both physically, emotioanly in conjunction mentally, and you hurt them financially (which has already been done).
I still don't understand why someone needs to occupy wallstreet when it's more reasonable to occupy your congressman.

If it did spread then I highly suspect the State's Governor would declare martial law (provided their State Constitution allows it, I know mine does), or el presidente would declare nation-wide martial law.

Pardon me if I come off a bit aggressive. Just tired of this whole OWS fiasco.

Absolutely not.

They've already started to gain resentment in the public that they supposedly represent by trashing public property (NOT covered by the 1st Amendment). If they turn to violence, and innocent bystanders start getting hurt or killed - and they will, no one (and I mean no one) will be opposed to SWAT teams moving in to break up the encampments. Even the cleaner, less disruptive ones (they vary quite a bit from what I've heard) will be subject to immediate action.

In fact, people might even begin to support laws that would effectively ban any form of assembly in public space. But just like the 'Patriot' Act, it 'wouldn't be unconstitutional' - they will say, it'll just be 'for our own safety'.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

reply to post by CarbonHail


Perhaps riot or storm chase bank wasn't the best terms. What I only meant to say was, cease being peaceful to those that harm you. Weather it be a robber, or the Vatican, and the other PTB. Self defense is self defense. They are not peaceful, they will not empathize. The more you gather in peace, the more they laugh, the more fun they have.
Don't you see we are all too afraid of the consequences? How many citizens would our own soldiers kill, the whole lot of us? Down to their own mother? Doubt it.

Our soldiers are waking up too, if not already awoken. I'm yearning(dreaming) for the day of a military coup with sincere regard for its people arises. Then what'd the elite do.. Hide in their vaults?

Yeah sorry to say but when i first saw this Occupy movement i was hoping it would prove usefull.

But unless were ready to protest like they do in Egypt, its nothing but a hippie fest.

Dont get me wrong, i fully support OWS, but unless your willing to give your life to change things you aint gonna get nowhere.

reply to post by CaptainIraq


I see where your going with this in your assumption we'd lose the battle. Not if it was the entire country, or even half. How many people would a swat team massacre until any of them woke up? 100? 1000? 10000? They are human beings too, and don't make nearly enough money to slaughter their own people. And if they were to slaughter everyone, the least I'll be doing is fighting for my country, and sending them to the hell that may or may not exist.

I'm just going to say this. In a fictional scenario of WHAT IFs. Just what if instead of civil disobedience, it was uncivil disobedience. End goal, even if it took 50 years, take our country back as well as our planet.

Don't you'd understand we'd win?

Wouldn't researching unlimited, free energy and telling people about it, spamming it everywhere be a much better option/way to dent a corporation? Oil is used for almost everything and I think if everyone knew about it then most people would start buying devices on the black market thus putting in a bigger dent to their profits. I do think OWS is awakening people atm which in America, is very necessary since the cattle are still grazing on their modified grass without a care. If you monitor the number of people that like OWS Facebook page each day, you can see a good increase in the numbers joining. They have 331,260 likes as of now(about 100,000 a month?) & that's just for the main page. They have others such as Occupy everywhere or Occupy _(insert area name)_. Educating people around you and spreading information such as spamming it in my opinion does help a lot. Ever hear about how everyone is connected? Well you'd be surprised where we'd be in a year from now if everyone here starts doing it thus causing others to do it. I'm not into OWS as much now as I am into shedding light on unlimited, free energy to people.

Just an idea, let me know what you think.

www.youtube.com...#! -Nikola Tesla unlimited free energy forever THEY dont want you to know about

Why research it if anyone finds the solution to unlimited or free energy is killed or destroyed by the elite? Thank Mr. Morgan for destroying Nikola Tesla. My god the things he would have done for us... Nevermind any sort of support from facebook. I wouldn't let that be the forum of any movement here at home- although ut may have played a role in other countries. Please keep in mind however, our buddy Chris Hughes (co-founder of Facebook) was at the last Bilderberg meeting.

What we need are 'bout it patriots! While awakening everyone is fine and dandy, the clock is ticking my friend. We are all connected, and that's why we need to take it back, through any means necessary.

For myriad reasons, violence will not help.

The OWS movement has already been ridiculed into non-existence by the extremists within its ranks, going violent would do nothing except further remove OWS from the common man's belief system. Stupid on a stick.

Sigh, the days go on, the encampment stays on yet those there for the most part don't give a stuff about the supposed cause, they are there on a jolly, just enjoying breaking some rules, getting high and sticking their fingers up at just about every one.

I would imagine the militants were hoping for a mass riot so they could destroy state property and just generally be useless piles of flesh. These people have no agenda towards the occupy ideal, they are chancers enjoying the attention.

We had them during the riots here, people looking to break rules, loot, destroy and fight with the Police, these idiots damn near killed many people by throwing items off the tops of buildings.

All this should have ended in 1 - 2 days, point made, media seen and brains used, now what are the OWS seen as, druggies, dirty people and work shy wasters, and lets not pretend the media has created this image, just look at the people, listen to them, this isn't an intelligently thought out process, its a mini rave.

Move them whatever way works, sound cannons, water cannons (just add soap) or brute force, in times of financial problems we don't need holidaying visitors to meet these mugs, tourism still pays the bills for some and a foul smelling poop and drug filled set of places with hippies don't exactly make for a great look.

Good thread (meaning all the comments as well).. Don't know exactly what to think of all this, and yes, it's true, Presidential Directive 51 is waiting patiently for that day when a "national emergency" constitutes martial law. But I don't know.. I think we need to stop being scared. Maybe not everybody has thought too in-depth about the kind of things that might go down in the process of changing this system we're always complaining about.

OP keeps mentioning raiding the HQ of Chase or one of the mega banks... and I must say, after thinking about it objectively and trying to come up with an honest answer, I think that if I heard that something like that had happened, and then it became known that they were going to do it again somewhere near me.. I'd definitely go.

That said, I haven't taken part in anything Occupy. My wife and I did walk the perimeter of the camp at like 3 in the morning a couple weeks ago, but nobody was doing anything

Originally posted by britelite1971
reply to post by bumpufirst

 

Why do the same congressmen and senators stay in office for many many terms? Why aren't we voting them out? Why do we continually vote for the rich and powerful? I get your point. Yes, our government is completely corrupt and in bed with the corrupt banks and corrporations. I agree completely! It is time to change the system but it's not time to take up arms and other weapons and hurt innocent bystanders in the process!

I agree with you -- wholeheartedly. It's just, so many people say this and offer no viable solution to the problem. Myself included.

Do I think OWS or any kind of peaceful protest is going to make a difference at this point? No, I don't. Do I think violence WOULD make a difference, yes I do. Do I think that difference would be better or worse? No way to tell, however -- that's an avenue that should never be traveled until all other avenues have been exhausted or pursued.

So, the question is -- what other options are there? Ya know, if we don't vote, some people will still vote, and the system is setup to elect the winner in the vote. (Provided voting even counts at all.) Peaceful protests are turning violent at the hands of the states, not the protesters.

The pool of electable candidates is selected not by the people, but by the GOP. Therefore, we can't even realistically put someone viable in office if we tried, short of a miracle event in which the biggest cooperation of all of mankind writes in a unanimous ballot.

It's currently by all known angles to me, a real rock and a hard place.

What else can viably be done on a large enough scale to get traction that will ultimately usher in change? OWS isn't doing it.

This is what we need to talk about, not whether or not we should go violent, but whether or not there is a real alternative.

If we find one, we can better the world. If we don't, we're all doomed to eventual chaos anyhow, so then violence becomes a much more viable route in terms of logic.

(I don't condone violence, I'm just entertaining the argument.)


We need metrics. We need to see the OWS expansion rate. If it's growing and at what pace. If it's shrinking, then it's already over. The key is getting the majority or very close to the majority to be resistant. If that's not happening (which is in all likelihood feasibly impossible) then peaceful protest will never accomplish anything.

Originally posted by Laokin

Originally posted by britelite1971
reply to post by bumpufirst

 

Why do the same congressmen and senators stay in office for many many terms? Why aren't we voting them out? Why do we continually vote for the rich and powerful? I get your point. Yes, our government is completely corrupt and in bed with the corrupt banks and corrporations. I agree completely! It is time to change the system but it's not time to take up arms and other weapons and hurt innocent bystanders in the process!

I agree with you -- wholeheartedly. It's just, so many people say this and offer no viable solution to the problem. Myself included.

Do I think OWS or any kind of peaceful protest is going to make a difference at this point? No, I don't. Do I think violence WOULD make a difference, yes I do. Do I think that difference would be better or worse? No way to tell, however -- that's an avenue that should never be traveled until all other avenues have been exhausted or pursued.

So, the question is -- what other options are there? Ya know, if we don't vote, some people will still vote, and the system is setup to elect the winner in the vote. (Provided voting even counts at all.) Peaceful protests are turning violent at the hands of the states, not the protesters.

The pool of electable candidates is selected not by the people, but by the GOP. Therefore, we can't even realistically put someone viable in office if we tried, short of a miracle event in which the biggest cooperation of all of mankind writes in a unanimous ballot.

It's currently by all known angles to me, a real rock and a hard place.

It is a tough call. Our politicians are all corrupt. They're making millions by doing... NOTHING. They just wake up, go to work, and let people tell them how important they are.

Having said that, our constitution is the best governmental framework in the history of mankind. So we cannot abandon it.

How do we, as responsible citizens, solve this problem of corruption? Without violence? I'm with you: I don't know. But what I do know is that the violence option is not acceptable and would never lead to an end we want. It would manifest in tyranny.

There needs to be a change. The way our senators and representatives and presidents behave is unacceptable. We have to bring the hammer, but the way in which we do that is so very important.