The time for peaceful resistance is up

reply to post by facewhatly
you did give the best solution on how to bring them down,personal sacrifice,stop saporting it,no tv or cable for that matter,and many other ways to stop the contribution to the machine.now!,thats were the rubber really meets the road.aand going back to basics of living.when i consider that and look around i clearly see they have won.people sacrifice there comforts and luxury? i dont see that hapenin g in a million years.

Originally posted by britelite1971
Sure....no problem. Keep right on talking about the "do or die" and the violent revolution. I'm sure Homeland Security loves you! Every single thing any one of us do on the net is either tracked or trackable. Plus, how many of your ats friends are not actually who they are representing themselves to be? Did you know that it is legal for law enforcement to lie in order to get the information that they want about a suspect or potential terrorist?? Great job! Keep on typing!

annnnnnd Your point is?

I have posted my face on this forum and on youtube saying the same stuff people have said here.

I am not scared of homeland security. I want them to arrest me. That would make a bigger impact on my friends and family than anything I could passively say to them. That's exactly why they won't arrest me. They are scared of us, not the other way around anymore. I have been through a lot in my life, the idea of getting arrested for something I believe in doesn't phase me. I came out fine when I got arrested for something dumb. I don't mean to sound tough on the internet, but you have to understand our mentality.

Listen to Immortal Technique's "The Matyr" album, it's free online. It's called "The Martyr" because it's about that same "do or die" mentality. His song "angel and demons" explicitly calls for violence. In his "front lines" music video he is shown loading a big'ole gun with bullets. The cover of his first two albums was was pictures of the top politicians dead on the ground of the oval office with bullet wounds. The cover of "The Martyr" is him holding an automatic gun while wearing a bullet proof vest. Homeland security isn't messing with him at all, even though they certainly could, because they know if they do they are opening pandora's box.

Now, I am not saying I am committing any violence, making any threats, or directly supporting violence in anyway. I have already gotten TOC infractions on here for doing that.

I am only trying to explain the mentality in this post. I am not saying you should agree with it. Nothing more.

reply to post by bumpufirst


because people don't want to give up what little that they have after they have already been deprived of so much.......although i can't say i blame them. It's just my personal philosiphy that no matter how much a bully picks on you, until he literally swings a punch you should be peaceful, and even after the punch is swung you should retaliate accordingly and responsibly, not by calling in an airstrike on him.

Violence is unnecessary. They took their stab at getting their message heard with their occupations of certain areas around the country and most people ignored it. The best they could do now is instead of fretting about not being taken seriously is to go home and fine-tune their message. I'll be honest, I am still in the dark about what they wanted exactly? To me, it seems their true intent and message went through the blender. As a result, everyone else sees them like a deer in headlights. The change they are looking for cannot be attained in a vacuum.

In my humble opinion, I see the OWS movement as a vacuum. No order, no message, and everyone acting on their own accord. With any movement, the group has to be well organized, and should have a clear message. They have done none of that, and we have witnessed what the mob is capable of when their is widespread confusion. Too many cooks in the kitchen ruin the soup.

I'll be honest, if this group decides to partake in violence they will get smashed. There will be mass arrests, damage to property, and potential for serious bodily harm and maybe even deaths. All of that for what? Just because people are not catching on as they would like is an excuse to destroy everything in sight? Perish the thought! They had ought to go home and rework their message, and organize a little better. They have been given their right to assemble and protest, and unfortunately for them people have not latched on to their message or movement. Perhaps next time they will have better luck?

Originally posted by CREAM

Originally posted by britelite1971
Sure....no problem. Keep right on talking about the "do or die" and the violent revolution. I'm sure Homeland Security loves you! Every single thing any one of us do on the net is either tracked or trackable. Plus, how many of your ats friends are not actually who they are representing themselves to be? Did you know that it is legal for law enforcement to lie in order to get the information that they want about a suspect or potential terrorist?? Great job! Keep on typing!

annnnnnd Your point is?

I have posted my face on this forum and on youtube saying the same stuff people have said here.

I am not scared of homeland security. I want them to arrest me. That would make a bigger impact on my friends and family than anything I could passively say to them. That's exactly why they won't arrest me. They are scared of us, not the other way around anymore. I have been through a lot in my life, the idea of getting arrested for something I believe in doesn't phase me. I came out fine when I got arrested for something dumb. I don't mean to sound tough on the internet, but you have to understand our mentality.

Listen to Immortal Technique's "The Matyr" album, it's free online. It's called "The Martyr" because it's about that same "do or die" mentality. His song "angel and demons" explicitly calls for violence. In his "front lines" music video he is shown loading a big'ole gun with bullets. The cover of his first two albums was was pictures of the top politicians dead on the ground of the oval office with bullet wounds. The cover of "The Martyr" is him holding an automatic gun while wearing a bullet proof vest. Homeland security isn't messing with him at all, even though they certainly could, because they know if they do they are opening pandora's box.

Now, I am not saying I am committing any violence, making any threats, or directly supporting violence in anyway. I have already gotten TOC infractions on here for doing that.

I am only trying to explain the mentality in this post. I am not saying you should agree with it. Nothing more.

edit on 19-11-2011 by CREAM because: (no reason given)

Good for you! You are quite brave and I respect that. Everyone has the right to make their own choices and to deal with the consequences. Actually, I think I understand your mentallity just fine.

Someone else on another thread pointed this out.

There was a question on the OWS survey that read:
"I believe that violence, even if resulting in injury or even tragic deaths, is a necessary component of protest given the severity of the related issues at the core of the protests"

39% of guests STRONGLY AGREED
20% of guests AGREED

Mind you, there were over 20,000 guests who participated.. While on the other hand..

36% of members STRONGLY DISAGREED
21% of members DISAGREED


60% of 20,000... It's a start. Here's the survey
The question I'm talking of is 3rd from the bottom.
What we need to understand is directly stated in the question "given the severity".

here is how i feel on this subject!

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty thomas jefferson

What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? thomas jefferson

God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. thomas jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. thomas jefferson

Originally posted by Jakes51
Violence is unnecessary. They took their stab at getting their message heard with their occupations of certain areas around the country and most people ignored it. The best they could do now is instead of fretting about not being taken seriously is to go home and fine-tune their message. I'll be honest, I am still in the dark about what they wanted exactly? To me, it seems their true intent and message went through the blender. As a result, everyone else sees them like a deer in headlights. The change they are looking for cannot be attained in a vacuum.

In my humble opinion, I see the OWS movement as a vacuum. No order, no message, and everyone acting on their own accord. With any movement, the group has to be well organized, and should have a clear message. They have done none of that, and we have witnessed what the mob is capable of when their is widespread confusion. Too many cooks in the kitchen ruin the soup.

I'll be honest, if this group decides to partake in violence they will get smashed. There will be mass arrests, damage to property, and potential for serious bodily harm and maybe even deaths. All of that for what? Just because people are not catching on as they would is an excuse to destroy everything in sight? Perish the thought! They had ought to go home and rework their message, and organize a little better. They have been given their right to assemble and protest, and unfortunately for them people have not latched on their message or movement. Perhaps next time they will have better luck?

edit on 19-11-2011 by Jakes51 because: (no reason given)

"The best they could do now is instead of fretting about not being taken seriously is to go home and fine-tune their message"

Have you been to the official OWS website? The only stated goal is revolution. That is pretty clear to me and what it seems many people in this thread support. Does the media call it what is? A revolution? NO, because many people would actually support that, There are a number of modern "Common Sense" documents floating around online with clear demands and grievances... Will any of those get published in the mainstream? Of course not!

Have you watched the live feeds? At every main event(Like on the 5th and the 17th), I heard chants against the fact the US bailed out the banks. That seems to be the core message. When they confront the police, they usually chant "this is what a police state looks like" - that mixed with the stated "revolution" goal seems pretty clear to me. Does the media report all that? No.. They report that there are a lot of communists etc, when that is true(a small fraction are communists), but there are a lot of people from many ideologies down there. That is something that the media, especially Fox, really doesn't want people to know(the diversity of the movement).

Definition of a patriot.

1. a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2. a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, especially of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.

dictionary.reference.com...

Would you defend a castle peacefully? How about yourself? Your home? Your family? Why should your homeland, whichever country it is, be any different?

Originally posted by CREAM
"The best they could do now is instead of fretting about not being taken seriously is to go home and fine-tune their message"

Have you been to the official OWS website? The only stated goal is revolution. That is pretty clear to me and what it seems many people in this thread support. Does the media call it what is? A revolution? NO, because many people would actually support that, There are a number of modern "Common Sense" documents floating around online with clear demands and grievances... Will any of those get published in the mainstream? Of course not!

Have you watched the live feeds? At every main event(Like on the 5th and the 17th), I heard chants against the fact the US bailed out the banks. That seems to be the core message. When they confront the police, they usually chant "this is what a police state looks like" - that mixed with the stated "revolution" goal seems pretty clear to me. Does the media report all that? No.. They report that there are a lot of communists etc, when that is true(a small fraction are communists), but there are a lot of people from many ideologies down there. That is something that the media, especially Fox, really doesn't want people to know(the diversity of the movement).

You mention revolution? Revolution to what? Charred buildings, tipped over cars, raving lunatics hooting and hollering in the streets, and other misfortunes? With all due respect, your post alone is what I am trying to get across. No concise message, and you mention all kinds of places to go to find it. When in all actuality whatever message they were trying to get across should have been present at every OWS movement. I am sorry, but that was not the case. They have to keep in mind that Americans tend to have short attention spans and are more interested in Monday Night Football and the latest sitcom. Even you seem to have questions about what they are doing.

Originally posted by CREAM
At every main event(Like on the 5th and the 17th), I heard chants against the fact the US bailed out the banks. That seems to be the core message.

I am only quoting your remarks and the word "seems," gives me the idea that maybe you are not quite aware of what they are doing? Now mind you, I could be wrong, but that is how is see it. To be fair, you are not the only one in that position, and there are certainly others as well. The diversity is what killed this movement from the get go. Too many cooks in the kitchen ruin the soup! I have seen them go from one extreme to another like people change their socks.

To be honest, I have not even watched the mainstream coverage of this movement. In fact, I was trying my hardest to give them the benefit of a doubt. However, as they continued to clutch at straws, and scream at the top of their lungs with some of the most asinine and radical diatribes imaginable my patience has grown thin. I know I am not the only one, and there are many others who feel the same way. All I am saying is, if they truly believe in what they are preaching? Now is the best time to go home and reorganize. Best of luck next time, because the message is just not clicking. Thanks for the reply!

reply to post by Hiasyouwant


F it... I'm going to say it... IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN... I agree that nothing will be solved unless action is taken. I hate the idea but it does need to happen IMO. I will say this again IMO. The elite have shown that no matter what, they have the government on their side at all times. They are protecting the crooks and criminals of war and society.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... WHEN IS ENOUGH, ENOUGH and WHAT DOES IT TAKE???

When our forefathers were fighting the system they didn't sit back in a park... they picked up guns and defended their freedom. The problem is we have forgotten what freedom really is and have pretty much begged for the state we are in by our decisions in the past. The movement is great but when are results going to happen?

It won't... if anything another illusion will be put in place to make us think change is on the way... a-la Obama... I will admit that I was on board with the whole Yes We Can bit, but now I think time is up and the government is headed to chapter 11...

I want my country back!

I know some of you are going to say this isn't the 1700's but why should that matter? Our constitution has been walked on, trampled over and spit at... It's nothing more than a piece of paper the elite laugh at over cocktails. It's sad because it's what this country was built on and respected for... too bad it was all a lie...

but what do I know... it's not like I matter...

reply to post by Jakes51


im sure that is what most turds would want. just quit and go home and forget everything. take job at mc D,s, live in a box, give half of your meager(at best)pay to govt., to sustain programs that benefit others and illegals.

no thank you sir, i dont want another.

maybe it is time to do what govt. and bankers do. go in and just take it. by force if necessary.

the only way out is to do it differently than what has been proven not to work. very very differently. convert yourselves to people doing exactly that, what you would like to see the ones in power to change into.
persist. comfort will set in, and joy, that is a normal consequence.

boycott the money.
educate with wisdom and foresight !

we all know how we all over the world over medicate. stop buying at the chemist if you can. most of our ailments would be cured anyway with a better lifestyle and less anxiety. take your health into your own hands. stay away from drugs. all kinds of drugs. even the selfmed drugs are ultimately owned by the big ones. the same with alcohol.
eat healthier. how much bacon do you need? how much land do you need to grow your beef? how often could you take public transport, use a bike, walk? be artistic and creative instead of watching movies. play with kids and neighbours instead of using the computer.
why not spend the weekends in the country with a relative or friend (or make friends) and help them to keep up a vegie garden? maybe now over winter is the time to prepare plans for bigger gardens. soon you could boycott the sickening food on offer.
maybe now could be the time to negotiate with ethical credit unions to strengthen and confirm ethical methods and then change your financial dealings over.
change jobs and work for ethical companies. inform yourself. think of something that works for you. stop your contribution to support the system you don’t want !
etc etc
undermine them slowly. knag at their roots. it takes time for us to grow in strength. this is the only thing they fear. fury will not do it. that’s what they are better at all the time.
‘money’ is the only language they speak and understand. they are prepared to fight a long war over money with you. be prepared for solid success, otherwise you will never never win. be causious.
be true to high standard of values. straighten your backs. pull up your socks.
be kind and good, people! have a solid vision that you implement.

You know what strikes me as odd? The majority, if not all, of you that write about "no violence, violence begets violence, just vote them out, ect" have NEVER written about just how wrong it was and upset you are about how our founding father's took up arms AGAINST AN OPPRESSIVE GOVERNMENT. So let me get this straight: It was perfectly fine that SOMEONE ELSE, long ago, fought for and won, your FREEDOM.

would we be in this mess if it had worked properly? was it not just a beginning?
lets give our founding fathers a hand and lets live freedom.

The means is in place to effect total change. It must be done through the voting booth putting in the right people to pass laws to effect that change. The entire US Constitution can be changed in a constitutional convention if enough people get voted in to warrant that change. It is apparent the majority do not want this. That's one of the "problems" with democracy. What YOU want may not be what the majority wants. Even if it is a great idea or ideology. But to not want to accept that makes the OWSers appear as impatient, spoiled little children not wanting to do the hard work of getting the right people elected.

Originally posted by letscit
reply to post by Jakes51

 

im sure that is what most turds would want. just quit and go home and forget everything. take job at mc D,s, live in a box, give half of your meager(at best)pay to govt., to sustain programs that benefit others and illegals.

no thank you sir, i dont want another.

maybe it is time to do what govt. and bankers do. go in and just take it. by force if necessary.

Turds? I am not calling anyone turds? I did not say for them to quite either. Not once did I say that. As I said before, go home and reorganize. Perhaps they could put together meetings and what not, email newsletters, develop core literature with ideals and goals, and other grassroots methods at organizing.

By all means when everyone is on the same page protest to their heart's content. That is the best they can do. Any movement needs broad public support, and this group does not have it. That is obvious. No one is telling anyone they cannot protest or speak out publicly. They have been afforded that right for months. Is the US any different or better off than it was before they started? Not very much.

I am not trying to demonize or discredit them whatsoever, because they have done an ample job doing that to themselves. At present they are just holding up signs and taking up space. People are just not flocking in droves as they expected. Perhaps, they could reorganize for the spring when they get their affairs in order?

Originally posted by madjetxe
Nothing in history has been accomplished with non violence,

Are you familiar with a man called Ghandi?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Hey it happened in Libya, a handful of rebels paving there way to victory while the rest of the country was blown apart. Maybe the OWS movement just need to ask for some foreign funding to steer them to victory.....

reply to post by Hiasyouwant


We should storm George Soro's office! That guy owns half of NY.

sitting in a park protesting has never worked. It didn't work in Vietnam it won't work here. Violence won't change anything either. Politics and such are superficial. The change must come from within every single living being

reply to post by biggmoneyme


And you actually believe that can happen without a genocide? Your aiming pretty high there buddy....