Police officer pepper-sprays seated, non-violent students at UC Davis

"This is perfectly legal. "
It's immoral. That trumps "law". That principle is why we fought the Revolutionary War. The actions of the Nazi's tried and hung at Nuremberg were "legal". That proved to not be a very convincing argument.

Originally posted by nitro67
Honestly I find the video a little bit funny...I mean those kids are obnoxious sitting there complaining....I would have sprayed them too..."shame on you" and "we are the 99%" are lame things to shout while a cop is just doing his job...actually have a message and maybe people will pay attention, as of now the entire OWS movement seems like a GIANT BITCH FEST....I appreciate water, food, housing...investors can choke on their gold for all I care......

You're the one being obnoxious. They're chanting "shame on you" because the police ILLEGALLY sprayed pepper spray on their face whilst peacefully protesting, whether they are blocking an entry road or not. That man had no right to do that.

Also "we are the 99%" is a clear message. Would you rather they just chanted the long list of things that's wrong with the government and the feds? That would be more of a speech.

Yeah you appreciate water, food and housing. Good for you. But a lot of these young people might not be able to afford food or a house, because of the lack of jobs and house prices and bills rising. This is why they are protesting!

You say it's a bitch fest, and yet your bitching about it.

Get real. Grow up. More importantly...WAKE UP!

reply to post by Hellas


"I AM STANDING ON THE SIDEWALK!" Yes you do have the right to free speech, but uh, could you like say or do something that matters? You people are NOT making a point by doing these things....so dumb....the whole time I was watching that clip in Seattle I was thinking to myself "why do the cops not just mace the guy taping this and asking for their names?" He was the one that deserved it the most...."I AM STANDING ON THE SIDEWALK!!!!!" YOU GO GIRL! YOU STAND ON THAT SIDEWALK.....YOUR MOMMIES TAX DOLLARS PAID FOR IT...

Originally posted by mileysubet
They where blocking a through fair, The policeman had every right to remove the people blocking the common path, (as I am sure he and several (verbally) others did multiple times). peaceful protest does not include interfering with the passage rights of the people commuting.

These individuals where attempting to make maryters of them selves. They where doing these actions to get attention, although they where breaking the very laws the supposedly protect.

edit on 19-11-2011 by mileysubet because: (no reason given)

I watched this video on CNN about 20 minutes ago.

Watching how the Police back up, that tells me everyone knew what was going to happen. So if everyone knew, it is safe to assume that these Protesters were told to move and refused.

I am not going to bother with who was right or who was wrong in that aspect, instead I want to discuss the aftermath. If you notice after the spraying, police began making arrest. Again, that's fine. That is a risk you always take when you protest.

My issue is, why the pepper spray? That part makes no sense. These people were sitting down, not resisting. What they are guilty of is not listening to Police Orders to move. Why could the Police not just go in and arrest them without the use of the Pepper Spray? They were clearly not running, they were clearly not resisting arrest, they were clearly not putting up a fight. Yet they were sprayed anyway. Why?

Ask yourself, is it ok for Police to use weapons on non violent, non resisting suspects? Make no mistake about it, Peppery Spray is a weapon. It is sold to Police and the Public as a Self Defense, Non Lethal Weapon. The keyword here, I believe, is "Weapon". It makes no difference if it is non lethal or not. It comes down to weather or not it is ok to use a weapon on a non violent suspect.

Also one must consider the consequences of a Private Citizen using Pepper Spray. Again, this is a legal product that is sold to Law Enforcement and Citizens. So what happens if a person uses this weapon on another? Well that answer is simple. If you use it as self defense, nothing will happen. If it is not self defense you will be arrested and it is considered Assault. If there is a child close by that could be effected by the spray, you will be charged with Child Endangerment. If there are other people close enough to be effected, you will be charged with Reckless Endangerment. Below is proof for those who need it. A women sprays her boyfriend in a hospital waiting room. She is then charged with 8 counts of Reckless Endangerment, 1 count of Child Endangerment, and Assault.

CBS News


Now we can clearly see in the video that the Police are NOT defending themselves here. They are discharging a weapon, for no other reason than to show force when in fact there is no need for force. If this was any normal person, they would be charged with enough counts of reckless Endangerment and Assault that one could easily argue that your crime is a Felony.

Originally posted by mileysubet

Originally posted by CharterZZ
reply to post by mileysubet

 

So to you its ok to be pepper sprayed for sitting in a public place.

What a load of BS

edit on 19-11-2011 by CharterZZ because: (no reason given)

When I block access to a public pace..."Yes I expect to be removed from blocking it" ...you can quote that if you want.
1

I have to just because...... So if you are sitting on ground blocking access to the front door of say a store. It is ok with you to be sprayed with pepper spray/mace, hit with a billy club, punched, kicked, etc. Rather then I dont know physically grabbing you and arresting or removing you?

Sorry but what that officer did was not only bulls*it it was done in a way that was taunting. Throwing the can up in the air to show the crowd first? Like see watch what I am about to do to your friends. Then you get BS quotes like this from the spokes people.

Karen Nikos, a university spokeswoman, told The Associated Press that she expects to have comment on the incident later Saturday morning. Spicuzza told the Sacramento Bee (http://(link tracking not allowed)/sKoP5T) that police used the pepper spray after they were surrounded.

Protesters were warned repeatedly beforehand that force would be used if they didn't move, she said. "There was no way out of that circle," Spicuzza said. "They were cutting the officers off from their support. It's a very volatile situation."

Yea sorry but what happened there was just another cop on a power trip trying to make something of himself. I am no fan of the Occupy movement as you can see from my previous posts, but I am even more against the gestapo tactics that our "Civil Servants" pull on a almost daily basis. Most police I know need a serious psych eval before being allowed to carry a gun. I would safely say that 90% of all police have a superiority complex.

reply to post by HallamFoe


Pointing out a bitch fest in an online forum is not bitching. Just my opinion of this "movement." The slogan "we are the 99%" is ridiculous. I do not walk around town and think even for a moment about how much money some one else has, WHO CARES!!! When I say I am appreciative of food and water I mean it. Thats what matters. I could live like the unabomber and be happy, probably happier than sitting here typing this message to snot-nosed brats that have been given EVERYTHING AND THEN SOME their ENTIRE LIVES that now have to grow up and support them selves but do not know how to do anything other than talk on a cellphone and record eachother shouting things like "shame shame shame" and oh you know the rest......Imma gonna go squat in the forest and reconnect with mother earth and forget all about cement roads, cell towers, sky scrapers, cars, and twenty somethings that want hand outs....see ya!

reply to post by nitro67


What do you mean these protests are not doing anything?

DID YOU EVEN WATCH THE VIDEO TILL THE END?

Gawd. Some people.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by HallamFoe


What is your idea of a perfect world? Do you have one? Or do you do just what everyone else does, point out the obvious things and complain about life in general? I am struggling with seeing what the world would look like if the OWS movement succeeded. Please explain what is going to be changed and what it is going to be changed into. All these Guy Fawkes masks make me ill...has anyone read "Brave New World?" or "1984?" The "99%" are just jumping right into the idea of de-individuation, perfect socialist scheme..."everyone is always the same"

reply to post by nitro67


Yes they slowly and very carefully backed away in a tight little group and eventually left because there were too many protesters surrounding them.

Now if you don't think that sends a clear message then you are clearly retarded.

Emo? No.

reply to post by CREAM


BIG LOL!!
As I know you are correct.
If you shut down the net, World of Warcraft players will wake up, as well as any other online pvp or MMO, stores will lose revenue, and a whole host of other problems will arise.
So, unless you wanna see this on a major scale.....

Shutting the web down would be a bad thing MMMMKAY?


Personally I cannot say whether this is a real reaction or just made for hits, but I have known and do know online gamers, but this is a reasonable assumption of what happens.
But things like these are happening way too often nowadays and this is only to the advantage of those who live to be free.
As more people see atrocities happen, they may figure out that we are all connected and the next victim of the machine may be them or a loved one.

Is there case law pertaining to the use of chemical agents against peaceful protesters???? Well, yes there is.

caselaw.findlaw.com...

Nine environmental activists and an environmental group brought this action, under 42 U.S.C. § 1983, against the County of Humboldt, the Humboldt County Sheriff's Department, Eureka City and its police department, and several individual officers, alleging that the officers' use of pepper spray on the activists' eyes and faces during three peaceful protests constituted an excessive use of force in violation of their Fourth Amendment rights.

I predict that in the coming years, the cost now will be dwarfed by the judgements against the cities, city officials and individual officers.

reply to post by nitro67


It was deregulation of the banks that started this whole mess really. So I would probably start with looking into implementing more rules and regulations, the way it was before. Simple really. There's quite a lot of things I would change. But I don't want to go off topic for the sake of you being a complete and utter dumbass.

Originally posted by Tinman67
Is there case law pertaining to the use of chemical agents against peaceful protesters???? Well, yes there is.

caselaw.findlaw.com...
Nine environmental activists and an environmental group brought this action,

And the outcome was.... looks like the protestors lost their case!

Man.Nitro,you know you are being played to get a reaction,don't ya.
Why so upset with a few folks out protest that has nothing to do with you.
You are apparently not affected at all by the condition of the US ,it's political system and monetary situation.
Good for you.

reply to post by HallamFoe


Way off topic? My question has to do with this topic, these kids are protesting SOMETHING, right? I mean they are not just sitting on the ground for nothing, right? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON? I am not a dumbass, just do not get what this movement wants, please spell it out for me....

Originally posted by FrenchOsage
"This is perfectly legal. "
It's immoral. That trumps "law". That principle is why we fought the Revolutionary War. The actions of the Nazi's tried and hung at Nuremberg were "legal". That proved to not be a very convincing argument.

Yeah, take one line from my entire post and use it out of context. You're moronic to think it's immoral.

They were warned. They refused. The police did their job. The students purposely put themselves in harms way. They deserve what they got.

reply to post by HallamFoe


What the police did was legal. Just because they're "peacefully protesting" doesn't mean they're above the law.

They were ordered to disperse they refused. They have every right in the world to refuse but they also accept the consequences. I am sick of people seemingly ignorant of the fact that there are consequences for your actions. Because you think that what you are protesting is just and valid does not give you the right to disobey a lawful order given by the cops. Keep bitching and "hating on the man" all you want, they refused and got peppered. It was an appropriate action. And stop with this 'chemical weapons" BS. If you want to truly know what a chemical weapon is ask the Kurds or Holocaust survivors. Pepper spray is nothing more than concentrated hotsauce (aka Capsazin). Knock off the dramatics.

Originally posted by Athin

Originally posted by FrenchOsage
"This is perfectly legal. "
It's immoral. That trumps "law". That principle is why we fought the Revolutionary War. The actions of the Nazi's tried and hung at Nuremberg were "legal". That proved to not be a very convincing argument.

Yeah, take one line from my entire post and use it out of context. You're moronic to think it's immoral.

They were warned. They refused. The police did their job. The students purposely put themselves in harms way. They deserve what they got.

There are many other ways of subduing people that don't involve pepper-spraying people in the face. I read that one guy was vomiting blood for a half-hour as a result. How is that a measurable consequence of refusing to move?

We're supposed to have a justice system with no cruel and unusual punishment. The policeman here was the judge, jury, and executioner of punishment. THAT IS NOT HIS JOB. It is his job to apprehend them and take them through the justice system. Certainly there are trained methods of subduing a sitting person that don't involve dousing their face in pepper spray?