A few questions for Christians

reply to post by WeRpeons


And the Roman Catholic Church is the seat of Satan and not the true Church that Christ built. The one and only unforgivable sin in the Bible is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, Catholics blasphemy the Holy Ghost on a regular basis as part of their traditions.


You were confused because you grew up in Satans Church not Christ's Church. Do as I did and throw away everything you ever thought you knew about the Bible, religion and God, just throw it away hit your knees and pray to God for understanding and then start studying and do not stop till you understand. God bless... Do not let Satans lies steal your soul....

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by Section31

 

...my possibilities are limitless. Yours are limited by your god.

So... What are your plans after death?

If you do not believe in anything, I guess your journey comes to an abrupt end. Nothing else to do?

I have plans on exploring eternity.

My personal belief on this subject is focused on the actual life of Jesus and how "You" should take in as an example of how to live your life. Be good to people no matter who or what they are. Be an example to others to let them know good people are out there. Lend a helping hand to those less fortunate. Teach others that the being good to mankind and animals is the secret to bringing peace on the earth.

As to your whole book of enoch and other quotes....Man can twist the words of the Bible in so many ways it is not funny. Even twisting it to bring wars to kill innocent life. Or write the words to control the masses.

The thing you should take from the Bible is the stories that have been written to understand the history of mankind. Then as a human make sure the wrong things do not happen again and the right decisions are made. Unfortunately as you have written many choose the wrong.

It is pretty simple as a Christian love EVERYONE! And there will be peace.

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx

ps, i dont know why i described my meal in such detail.

Not really because you did not say what kind of sandwich you had.
I had a Talera roll sliced into top and bottom halves, with cracked pepper olive oil mayonnaise, sliced chicken breast, and a slice of cheddar cheese, and sliced tomato. Now that is a yummy sandwich.

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx

. . . the universe is all i need and with that aw and love for the universe comes a love for everything within it because it is all a part of a huge infinitely complex mechanism, constantly flowing.

Not really, because you need to decide if it is infinite, or there are a whole lot of things impossible to exist in the universe. It can not have infinite possibilities and at the same time infinite impossibilities.
The ancient wisdom that was passed down to the philosophers of old tells us that the universe was made with gods in it, as part of the plan of what made the universe.

Originally posted by graphuto


Things are the way they are because God wants us to have FAITH.

Why?

reply to post by Section31


here is another problem i see. with the promise of this awesome after life that you will be rewarded with, you are looking forward to all of the fun you're going to have after you die exploring eternity.

since i dont believe in heaven or whatever it may be, i put all of my energy into completely enjoying the life i am living. all i have is love for everything and everyone right now. i think for us insignificant little human creatures in this universe that is all we can ask for. love.

if your path to finding love involves religion, so be it, but it doesnt mean an atheist is not capable of the same feelings. for some reason christians are under the impression that without religion there is no inherent morality or values or love, but for me at least, the fact that i am a part of this world is enough to make me feel all warm and fuzzy. i dont need anything extra added to the mix that adds nothing to my life, like the belief in an invisible higher power. if the world just goes on as it is, and bad things happen and good things happen all of the time no matter if i believe in a god or not, than there is no reason for me to add that extra element. its just one more thing to worry about and complicate things.

i believe that if there was a god, it certainly has nothing to do with christianity or any other religion we have made up as humans.. it would be something we cant even comprehend and it is something that doesnt need our unquestioned, blind faith, obedience or love, it just is.

and if your god hates me for my beliefs than he only has himself to blame for giving me the ability to conjure up these thoughts in my brain.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx

 

. . . the universe is all i need and with that aw and love for the universe comes a love for everything within it because it is all a part of a huge infinitely complex mechanism, constantly flowing.

Not really, because you need to decide if it is infinite, or there are a whole lot of things impossible to exist in the universe. It can not have infinite possibilities and at the same time infinite impossibilities.
The ancient wisdom that was passed down to the philosophers of old tells us that the universe was made with gods in it, as part of the plan of what made the universe.

oh, but you can.

the universe itself can be infinite, as in having always been here and it can be infinitely big which would pretty much allow for infinite possibilities to arise. however, if that is the case than there is no start or moment of creation which gets rid of the need for a god. perhaps in the vast infinity of the universes history some sort of being may have arisen with qualities not unlike your gods, but most certainly not to the point of omniscience throughout the whole of everything.

if there is a god and there was a moment of creation, that limits the possibilities, and we are confined within a world that is governed by this one being and his rules. it leaves us no true freedom to explore the infinite possibilities because with all of the good comes the 'sins' which we will just be sent to hell for. i dont know where im going with this, im tired.

lets just say you're right and god exists. this way you're happy and i can stop typing. either way nothing has changed about the way either of us feel. sooooo, goodnight

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx

. . . it leaves us no true freedom to explore the infinite possibilities . . .

"Even the gods do not fight Anankē." What this means is that there is this mysterious something the Greeks called Anankē which created the universe and the gods are part of that universe, as dictated by this unknown primeval force, so even the gods do not have "infinite possibilities" because they have to operate within the bounds of what was established by the creation of the universe.
Hopefully something should have changed by understanding this principle, which is you knowing that even if you were a god, you do not have complete free will.

Originally posted by Athin
[
That's only true if you can prove in Gods existence. Who is to say that Paganism wasn't the true religion of God? Pagans did not murder Christians over their religion. They worshipped everything and truly practiced 'all life is sacred' unlike Christians. Also, they did not listen to God and in essence defied him. Shouldn't Christians be killed for not following his word?

edit on 10-11-2011 by Athin because: Corrected spelling

Sure they did. Where on earth you have this romantic notion of the noble pagan that held all life is sacred from? It is a bunch of BS the pagans were just as guilty of the same cruelties and intolerance as anyone else in the ancient world. Like warfare and killing is something that happened with the advent of Christianity, sorry it i has been with us from day one and the reasons have little to nothing to do with religion.

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx


i believe that if there was a god, it certainly has nothing to do with christianity or any other religion we have made up as humans.. it would be something we cant even comprehend and it is something that doesnt need our unquestioned, blind faith, obedience or love, it just is.

and if your god hates me for my beliefs than he only has himself to blame for giving me the ability to conjure up these thoughts in my brain.


You are right, God has nothing to do with man made religions Christ built his Church and there is only one. No not as in there is only one building or one culture or one race but one Church. God does not hate you he mornes for you as a lost soul, he desires you to know him and love him and he loves you. Also we were made with free will, we can chose God or notl either you believe or you do not. If your heart is so hard then you have no hope because the bible says the hard hearted will not listen and the wicked will not understand. Poor guy...

reply to post by KeliOnyx

Like warfare and killing is something that happened with the advent of Christianity,

When will people understand that The Church Christ built did not cause war and killing but the false churches did/do?

reply to post by Leahn


I'm not atheist.

I LOVE God.

reply to post by Athin


So, I'm a little confused about your OP. Are you actually looking for answers to your questions?

Originally posted by Athin

Originally posted by Leahn

Originally posted by Athin
So the answer is no?

There is enough evidence to establish that a Jewish man of the name of Jesus, called Christ (annointed) by his followers, went around causing some disturbance during the first century, and was hanged for sedition, and that the events of his life caused the founding of the religion that we know today as Christianity.

Can you direct me to a source that would show me this evidence? Other than out of the Bible I mean. In my eyes the Bible is not fact.

I found this site to be of interest concerning tangible evidence of Jesus of Nazareth having existed.

Did Jesus actually exist?

Originally posted by Athin

Originally posted by daggyz
There is also a letter written that Paul refers to that has never surfaced, the letter to Laodicea. In fact there are probably hundreds of letters to various churches that have been lost.

Being a Christian isn't about having the correct letters and books in the Bible, it's about relationship.

There were some seven hundred churches in China in the 1970's that were birthed out of a man who only had about seven pages of the Bible in his possession. The early church has no NT books at all and no letters till about 50 years afterward.

Once again, the books are just letters on a page, the spirit is what gives them life, the spirit is the true reality not religious junk that is bound by a book and has no life that caused things to happen that you refer to.

Paul refers to... so I'm assuming you got that information from the Bible?(correct me if I'm wrong)
That's what I'm talking about. There is no proof whatsoever except for the words in the Bible.
Is there any proof out there, aside from the Bible, that proves Jesus was real? DNA, old remains, burial sites, etc...?

Your logic in this question seems good on the surface, but philosophically it is flawed. If I asked the question, "Can you prove the definition of the word 'wisdom' without using the dictionary?" This would be tangibly difficult and virtually impossible.

As was stated before, most of the writings of Jesus's contemporaries who wrote about Him have been included in the Bible. Those that are not included, are dismissed for various reasons. As for tangible proof of His existence, we find that most nay sayers will not accept any that is offered, because of various reasons, IE, only one writer, unknown writer, Jesus was a common name used at that time, and so on.

Suffice it to say, faith comes into play at some point. Either, by faith, you accept that Jesus is/was, or by lack of faith, you don't. What seems to happen most often in forums concerning this topic, opponents will not allow the Bible to be used because, and you said it yourself, they don't believe it is true. Yet, we have less evidence that Shakespeare existed than Jesus the Christ and yet he is accepted as being a living person who was a prolific writer.

Then you might reply, He was buried April 25, 1616, at Holy Trinity Church, Stratford-upon-Avon. But can you tangibly prove this? Not without difficulty, and not without the use of the only records that show him to have existed, IE burial records, etc. This is what most opponents do to those who use the evidence that is available to tangibly prove Jesus's existence.

reply to post by Athin


1. My God is much greater than you credit him with. It was not men that canonized the bible but God. The Old and New Testament are the will of God. If any other book or Manuscript belonged it would be there. If you believe that God created everything than it’s not too much to think that he ensured his book was canonized correctly. (Enoch does not fit with the rest of the bible, it simply is not divine in nature)

2. Two thoughts about the slaughter of people.
(1)God promises afterlife. So when God kills he is simply moving that person from earthly life to afterlife. I cannot promise afterlife, except by faith in God, so when I kill it has a different meaning. When you understand this, than you understand that God killed not out of anger or jealousy but out of Mercy and Compassion.
(2)Ancient Pagans practiced human sacrifice. If I start a religion and we start kidnapping your children to burn them in fire, we actually burn our own first born in the fire as well because it pleases our God, should I and my followers live or die. This is what the Pagans that God ordered killed were doing. They needed to be killed or their ideas might spread and poison the whole world. So God ordered these people put to death because what these people were doing was truly detestable.

3. At the time of the laws of Moses man was indeed lawless. If I were to go to prison and say don’t try and escape or Ill slap your hand, there would be no one left in prison. If I say don’t try and escape or I’ll kill you, I imagine you won’t have too many attempts to escape. God was bringing law to the lawless. It was necessary for the punishment to be harsh for people to understand that what God was teaching with the law was how to love, and what was best for man.

4. The main point that most that look to the Old Testament at a way to dismiss the validity of the bible is that times were different and the law of God was given to man differently. At the time of Christ man had reached a point where he was ready to understand that there was indeed one Creator. And that love was the one and only law necessary to live by.

Here is one of my personal favorite passages from the bible
God will punish the Gentiles when they sin, even though they never had God's written law. And he will punish the Jews when they sin, for they do have the law. For it is not merely knowing the law that brings God's approval. Those who obey the law will be declared right in God's sight. Even when Gentiles, who do not have God's written law, instinctively follow what the law says, they show that in their hearts they know right from wrong. They demonstrate that God's law is written within them, for their own consciences either accuse them or tell them they are doing what is right. The day will surely come when God, by Jesus Christ, will judge everyone's secret life. This is my message. (NLT, Romans 2:12-16)

Love is the most important thing. I don’t think that many understand what I am saying, even though many think they do. Few will ever understand God’s love, but I pray for all of you that someday you may understand. I know of no other way to understand God’s love than an understanding of the two promises that Jesus made and the acts that he did to prove he could make these promises, forgiveness of sin and resurrection.

5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” 6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” (Mark 2:5-11)

13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. (Corinthians 15: 13-15) Even Paul acknowledges that the only reason the bible should be believed is the resurrection.

reply to post by sacgamer25

1. My God is much greater than you credit him with. It was not men that canonized the bible but God. The Old and New Testament are the will of God. If any other book or Manuscript belonged it would be there. If you believe that God created everything than it’s not too much to think that he ensured his book was canonized correctly.

Do you realize this is not a normal way to think and to me indicates a cult type brainwashing.

2. Two thoughts about the slaughter of people.
(1)God promises afterlife. So when God kills he is simply moving that person from earthly life to afterlife.

I hope some ant-terrorism agency is tracking you because you think murder is acceptable behavior.

(2)Ancient Pagans practiced human sacrifice.

This is a racist justification for genocide.

3. At the time of the laws of Moses man was indeed lawless.

This is an absolute lie and more racism. The exact opposite was true, where Moses was a lawless renegade flouting all international laws, norms of behavior, and rules of warfare. He was an international war criminal and committed countless crimes against humanity and a menace to world peace and the general welfare of the people of the world and is rightly judged the most evil person to have ever lived.

4.The main point that most that look to the Old Testament at a way to dismiss the validity of the bible is that times were different and the law of God was given to man differently. At the time of Christ man had reached a point where he was ready to understand that there was indeed one Creator. And that love was the one and only law necessary to live by.

Mankind throughout the world were able to come to that conclusion without the help of Moses or anyone else of that persuasion, thank you very much.

Here is one of my personal favorite passages from the bible
God will punish the Gentiles when they sin,

I resent being called a pejorative name by self righteous bigots, such as you seem to be fully showing yourself to be.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I do not belong to any cult. The Churches that calls themselves Christian do not teach the word of God. They teach the watered down version mixed with lies. I seek only the truth, and I have found that truth in the bible. Much of what you think about Christians is true, but I do not belong to the stereotype that you have cast me with.

There are only two types of people in the bible Jews and Gentiles. I am a Gentile. This would be no different than me saying I’m Christian and you’re non Christian, nothing racist about that. If anyone is showing anything it is you who called me a self-righteous bigot, without knowing anything about me. You have stereo typed me because I am a Christian. I do not claim to be righteous, as I am a sinner, only God is righteous.

The fact that over 50% of the world believes in Moses, and an even higher percentage believe in the moral correctness of the 10 commandments, suggests that we cannot know if man would have come to this conclusion if it was not for Moses.

You should Google some ancient history about Pagans and human sacrifice before you make your statements. If you can prove any of what you say about the way the world was over 4000 years ago please provide links. It is my understanding from research and the bible that the world was exactly as I stated. Lawless and full of religious groups, that have been lumped together as Pagan, that practiced human sacrifice.

reply to post by sacgamer25

. . . Google some ancient history about Pagans and human sacrifice before you make your statements.

I don't have to because all I have to is read the Bible and it is full of it from Genesis through Revelation, from the Killing of Able through the "better one die than the entire nation" sacrifice of Jesus, to the ritual killings of the riders of the Apocalypse, the religion is a human sacrificial religion all the way through.

2 Kings 23:20
Josiah slaughtered all the priests of those high places on the altars and burned human bones on them. Then he went back to Jerusalem.

You belong to a human sacrifice cult to a god who desires constant violence as the ritual to worship him. Anyone who worships YHWH and follow Moses, worships a god of death and murder and war and strife and Hell. The so-called Hebrews were merely one faction of the Canaanites and when they said, Lord, the word coming out of their mouth was Molech.