Now what a story this is! ..what a doctor said infront of an abortion

Without arguing for the existence of God you are easily shown to be not rational. You do not have enough knowledge of the universe in your brain to know any more that there is no God than believers have to know that there is a God. You are equally irrational and each position requires equal faith. The truth is that most so called Atheists just hate God rather than not believing in him. If you cannot be rational at least be honest. I know it is a lot to ask. Baby steps.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by GrimReaper86

 

and see, though i can often come off as a jerk, i try not to be militant at all in my atheism. i had a thread a little while ago where i talk about how i don't mind the religious at all, just the commercialized, indoctrinating religious type who don't know why they are religious other than they were brought up that way.

i understand why the truly religious believe what they do and i understand how helpful it can be in ones life and therefor i have nothing but respect.

all i am against is ignorance. i choose logic any day, no matter how unsatisfying it may be to my ego

oh yeah that one really struck the chords. im fuming now...

you all assume i care. shoot me for feed or whatever crazy thing you want to do. it just proves that you are the crazy one that would do that just to make a point.

ha, and i can not handle existence with meaning? that doesn't even make sense. you are simply scared of the fact that you serve no purpose.

you don't realize that when you get rid of the promise for heaven and all of these made up rules you actually free yourself to live in the now and enjoy life for what it is. you spend your whole life trying to not piss off an imaginary character which hinders you. and then anything that happens you call it gods will when in reality without the notion of god it would have happened anyways just because thats what the universe does.

and what proof do i need to show you to convince you that humans are animals? start at the first page of any biology book. the only difference between you an a rat is a small percent of dna and your ability to make up such things as a god with this wonderful brain we have evolved.

and jcord, what is there for me to argue. read any science book that explains the natural world. go see the sights they talk about and observe the things they have observed and recreate the experiments they have made and see the evidence for yourself.

i am not claiming anything extraordinary or supernatural. i am just talking about nature and animals. i think it is up to the one making the crazy claims like there is an omniscient god who judges me to prove their argument.

"GOD made me an atheist, who are you to question his wisdom?"

Wrong again. You have no chords to strike. Maybe it is attachment disorder. Maybe a bad measles vac when you were a kid. I know that people like you have no capacity to care. You have no compassion. You have no feeling of obligation to help those less fortunate. A real trench coat mafia type. Yes, I know your type well. You are worth no more of my time. Now, go get a haircut.

PS: your science books are constantly being revised because someone decides that yesterday's theory is wrong. Scientists are constantly being charhed with fraud for manufacturing data to further their careers. Your faith is admirable if pathetic. Science won't help Cali.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
oh yeah that one really struck the chords. im fuming now...

you all assume i care. shoot me for feed or whatever crazy thing you want to do. it just proves that you are the crazy one that would do that just to make a point.

ha, and i can not handle existence with meaning? that doesn't even make sense. you are simply scared of the fact that you serve no purpose.

you don't realize that when you get rid of the promise for heaven and all of these made up rules you actually free yourself to live in the now and enjoy life for what it is. you spend your whole life trying to not piss off an imaginary character which hinders you. and then anything that happens you call it gods will when in reality without the notion of god it would have happened anyways just because thats what the universe does.

and what proof do i need to show you to convince you that humans are animals? start at the first page of any biology book. the only difference between you an a rat is a small percent of dna and your ability to make up such things as a god with this wonderful brain we have evolved.

and jcord, what is there for me to argue. read any science book that explains the natural world. go see the sights they talk about and observe the things they have observed and recreate the experiments they have made and see the evidence for yourself.

i am not claiming anything extraordinary or supernatural. i am just talking about nature and animals. i think it is up to the one making the crazy claims like there is an omniscient god who judges me to prove their argument.

"GOD made me an atheist, who are you to question his wisdom?"

reply to post by xxblackoctoberxx


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I didn't think my language was that difficult.

Perhaps it's left to say only

that

may you enjoy your nihlism as long as you can . . . given such a bleak perspective with no foundation to support meaningfulness.

So,the doctor suggested to murder, a child that wasnt even three years old?

What was he planning on saying to her if one child was already murdered,one in her care and baby 3 inside of her?

exactly! i don't have any need to feel meaningful in the sense that i require a purpose for this whole life other than the life itself. i dont need to please any gods or do anyone elses bidding or for that matter worry about going to hell.

i have so much compassion for the people i love its crazy. it is your mind which thinks that if there is no meaning and god then there is no room for morality and love. quite the opposite. all of the space that my mind would have wasted on religion is used for loving my family and friends. look at you getting defensive, a real trench coat mafia type, i didnt think my language was THAT hard, because im an idiot of course because i dont believe in the same thing as you. and im the one lacking compassion.

but even right now i still love everyone and everything and you two and all of the other people i think are crazy because i just love nature and its creatures. while you on the other hand are scornful and mocking and fear and hate those who do not agree without. trying to belittle me with your spurious reasoning. its just amusing and i love you.

even as a nihilist there is still love which comes from the shear aw of life and nature itself. which is funny because it seems there is so much hatred that stems from religion.

and its funny because i am totally the stereotype, i do need a haircut.

I was not going to waste anymore time with you, but I noticed something about your comments. My comments have been aimed at a very generic concept of God. However, your comments are aimed at a very specific concept of God. Thanks for helping us zero in on exactly where your enmity lies. I was right about you.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
oh yeah that one really struck the chords. im fuming now...

you all assume i care. shoot me for feed or whatever crazy thing you want to do. it just proves that you are the crazy one that would do that just to make a point.

ha, and i can not handle existence with meaning? that doesn't even make sense. you are simply scared of the fact that you serve no purpose.

you don't realize that when you get rid of the promise for heaven and all of these made up rules you actually free yourself to live in the now and enjoy life for what it is. you spend your whole life trying to not piss off an imaginary character which hinders you. and then anything that happens you call it gods will when in reality without the notion of god it would have happened anyways just because thats what the universe does.

and what proof do i need to show you to convince you that humans are animals? start at the first page of any biology book. the only difference between you an a rat is a small percent of dna and your ability to make up such things as a god with this wonderful brain we have evolved.

and jcord, what is there for me to argue. read any science book that explains the natural world. go see the sights they talk about and observe the things they have observed and recreate the experiments they have made and see the evidence for yourself.

i am not claiming anything extraordinary or supernatural. i am just talking about nature and animals. i think it is up to the one making the crazy claims like there is an omniscient god who judges me to prove their argument.

"GOD made me an atheist, who are you to question his wisdom?"

reply to post by jcord


yes, you are completely right about me. i explained it in that post to that nice religious fellow a few thingys ago. i have no problem with the real religious people. it is the indoctrinated, blind followers that are taught from childhood to hate anything that doesnt agree with their religion's way of thinking

I think that doctor should have been aborted to keep him from trying to brain wash women into doing what he wants

Okay, so if you knew you were going to have a deformed child..who later in life would be in pain daily, what would you do?

I don't mean a little pain, I mean sleep losing type of pain...where your child will never have a truly normal life do you abort the child or do you condemn them to live a life of pain? and then when you die who will take care of them?

just actually asking, don't flame me..I am actually curious what other people would do

You mean like Stephen Hawking?

Originally posted by mydarlia
Okay, so if you knew you were going to have a deformed child..who later in life would be in pain daily, what would you do?

I don't mean a little pain, I mean sleep losing type of pain...where your child will never have a truly normal life do you abort the child or do you condemn them to live a life of pain? and then when you die who will take care of them?

just actually asking, don't flame me..I am actually curious what other people would do

reply to post by heineken


And then the doctor got sued for intentional infliction of emotional distress.

Here's my favorite reason for why we need to keep abortions:
Do you know how the Romans and many others took care of it many years ago?
The father could kill their children at any age. If a baby was weak or deformed, they'd leave them outside to die.
We've come a long ways that's for sure. Abortion is a much more civilized way of getting rid of unwanted children.

Originally posted by Natame
Ok im sorry but i guess i have issues with this... a womans body is hers and hers alone. I have had three wonderful children and i know i would never have aborted them. But i also believe a woman has the right to choose her fate. I do understand the fact that a baby once conceived is alive. But knowing that there is alot of different reasons that a woman could or would want to terminate that said pregnancy is her CHOICE. I would never dictate to anyone that wanted to have a tattoo or plastic surgery, to have a cancer removed or life threatening surgery..Your body belongs to you... only you have that choice to do what you will with it.

And I believe that that baby should have some rights to life as well. It is the mother`s responsibility and hers alone to take care of her body that will be housing a tiny human for 9 months.A woman`s body may be hers but the baby`s body is not her`s it belongs to the baby and no mother should murder their baby simply because it is unborn.

That being said I obviously agree to exceptions such as if the mothers life is in serious danger or some other rare occurrence, not just oh I don`t want a baby so lets kill it. When we do the things we love to do and sometimes something unplanned happens we change our course and address the situation. Fathers that don`t step up should be tracked down without a doubt because a woman, I believe, deserves all the love and support during these times. I`ll never believe any one person has the right to take the life of another, with the exception of self defense or defending another, whether be a baby`s life, an unborn tiny little too small to be recognized baby, or anyone one.

reply to post by jcord


like atheist stephen hawking

Originally posted by randomname
how can some of you compare a human being to an ant or to bacteria on your face. the fact is you're denying a person the right to be born.

Millions of animals are born in cages and raised by humans for the specific purpose of being slaughtered. They're just as important as we are.

Originally posted by csulli456
And I believe that that baby should have some rights to life as well. It is the mother`s responsibility and hers alone to take care of her body that will be housing a tiny human for 9 months.A woman`s body may be hers but the baby`s body is not her`s it belongs to the baby and no mother should murder their baby simply because it is unborn.

That being said I obviously agree to exceptions such as if the mothers life is in serious danger or some other rare occurrence, not just oh I don`t want a baby so lets kill it. When we do the things we love to do and sometimes something unplanned happens we change our course and address the situation. Fathers that don`t step up should be tracked down without a doubt because a woman, I believe, deserves all the love and support during these times. I`ll never believe any one person has the right to take the life of another, with the exception of self defense or defending another, whether be a baby`s life, an unborn tiny little too small to be recognized baby, or anyone one.

The fetus' body is a part of the mothers body. It does belong to her. And it's also a parasite.

I am a defender of the defenseless. And I am equipped to do so. Mr Hawking's anger toward God is both understandble and misguided.

Originally posted by xxblackoctoberxx
reply to post by jcord

 

like atheist stephen hawking

reply to post by heineken


This thread just seems like a conservative's propaganda story against pro-choice. The abortion would be murder if the fetus was far enough along, but most of the time an abortion takes place well before the fetus is developed enough to be considered a full human being.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Once again I ask, do those "rights for your fellow kind" extend to the female baby?

If it is all about women's rights, what about the rights of a female baby at 24 weeks that could easily survive outside the womb, and is routinely born that way without significant complications. The female baby that does feel pain and yearn for comfort.

Does she have any rights, or just the grown ones?

Good question. As the mother of a 26 week preemie who was given the option of a preterm delivery or an abortion I always found it amazing that 1 minute prior to my daughters birth she wasn't considered "a life" or a person. One minute prior to her birth it would have been ok to kill her, yet once she was born, had she been killed it would have been a crime. What changed in that 1 minute time period? Was she any less human in that minute prior than she was after birth? No. I love the first breath argument as well because prior to birth she was breathing amniotic fluid after birth a machine breathed for her. Was she still not human until she took her first breath on her own? I am referring to past comments on this site were people have said they don't consider someone human until they have taken their first breath on their own and the soul has entered the body.
So tell me what right did my daughter have to her body? It might have been inside my body but her body was still separate from mine.
Also babies are conscious early on during pregnancy. At 14 weeks babies react to their mothers voice. They have positive and negative reactions to noises outside the womb. I'll never forget the time when I was pregnant with my oldest and the radio got turned on at full blast on accident. The noise startled him so bad and then he started clawing inside my body trying to get away from the source of the nose. I could literally feel his fear.

@ind1ca
I am neither a conservative nor a christian. I am anti-abortion after 9 weeks. Why 9 weeks? I have based this on medical facts that the unborn is a person in all the ways that counts by this point. Unfortunately most women don't even know they are pregnant at 9 weeks.